Scholarship ability

[turin]

i think if you do a search for the word 'scholar', you will find the reasons dave was talking about.

[Dave]

And that, gentlemen, is that...

Nothing of what I said is anything new.

Just a couple of loose ends, Dave, please?

1) Leadership is an ability, not a trait, right?

2) And could you please elaborate on 'forces people to play in ways they don't want to'?

Have already done so. Do what turin suggests and use the 'search' feature.

For the second point, my opinion is that people play that way already, to take advantage of leadership units, the light mage aura, and healers

If you don't like leadership units, don't upgrade your fighters to captains. Upgrade them to heroes. Etc.

That's why scholarly might be okay as an ability, no-one would be forced to get units that have it.

David

[Dacyn]

BTW, here is the post with Dave's objection; it does take a while to find...

[autolycus]

Dacyn: thank you; I had just read through about 10% of Dave's 3300 or so posts.

Some of his comments in the ideas for 0.8 thread were quite salient too, e.g. "Traits like this will change the way units are used from their normal purpose far more than normal traits do, and as such I don't think their effect is subtle enough," and "Having some kind of 'scholar' unit would end up with a unit that you have to coddle everywhere, trying to get it to advance a level. I don't think it'd be a very interesting playing style."

But I have to say that the scholarship ability (not a trait now) that I suggested is not like 'wise' or like the 'scholar' unit earlier mentioned. Perhaps I should have used 'mentorship'. It is an augmentation effect like leadership, healing and the light aura. If you make a mage with that ability, as opposed to red or white mages, thus giving a choice between a lot of magical fire damage, healing ability, or a unit that helps other units progress faster, then you have added a third option that is distinct, useful, and does not force people to play with it. Call them grey mages or something. Special characters can have it too.

After all, what are the uses of mages (as archetypes or as combat units)? 1) causing special damage, 2) healing, 3) teaching. I would like to add mages with the cockatrice 'stone' ability or those which have a defensive aura. But this is just variety. Yes, you don't need them.

[Elvish_Pillager]

After all, what are the uses of mages (as archetypes or as combat units)? 1) causing special damage, 2) healing, 3) teaching. I would like to add mages with the cockatrice 'stone' ability or those which have a defensive aura. But this is just variety. Yes, you don't need them.

The special mage I want to see is the Time Mage. Faster than other mages, he has twice as many attacks but they do half as much damage. Also, his melee attack is slowing.

[Dacyn]

If you make a mage with that ability, as opposed to red or white mages, thus giving a choice between a lot of magical fire damage, healing ability, or a unit that helps other units progress faster, then you have added a third option that is distinct, useful, and does not force people to play with it. Call them grey mages or something. Special characters can have it too.

Silver Mage is the third option; it is supposed to be a "speed" mage.

[turin]

After all, what are the uses of mages (as archetypes or as combat units)? 1) causing special damage, 2) healing, 3) teaching. .

you're making an assumption here. the uses of mages do not include teaching.

[autolycus]

After all, what are the uses of mages (as archetypes or as combat units)? 1) causing special damage, 2) healing, 3) teaching. .

you're making an assumption here. the uses of mages do not include teaching.

You need to be careful here. Go do a search on +mages +archetypes +teachers and you will find that a venerable body of human tradition associates mages with teaching. The mage is a wise man; the wise man's function is often that of teacher and guide. Similarly, healer, diviner etc. In fact, combat-damage magi are a rather more modern innovation; the descent of the theurgist to the thaumaturgist only starts some time after the Prometheus myth.

[Dave]

Units may have many functions that fall outside of the scope of the mechanics of the game, and appear only in the game's storyline, or don't appear at all in the game.

Sure, mages are associated with teaching, but since the scope of the game is the battlefield, there is only a limited amount that this aspect can be explored. In particular, there is no compelling reason to make mages have any kind of teaching ability, unless someone can find a gameplay-based reason for doing so.

Mages are associated with teaching in the storyline of campaigns. Delfador clearly teaches Konrad many things in Heir to the Throne, and Dacyn plays a somewhat similiar role in Eastern Invasion.

Likewise, Elvish Riders would often be used as messengers, Elvish Lords are leaders of their people, Shaman would be respected for their wisdom, etc etc. There is no reason why all these need to map to battlefield abilities.

David