Wesnoth 1.0: Northerners vs Northerners, the basics from me

5dPZ · Post by **5dPZ** » October 25th, 2006, 6:13 pm

IMO, trolls serve 2 main purposes and do it really really well, that is:

Hold a mountain on defence

Or beat down undead on offense.

unless the map is filled with hills + mountain, i don't think they should be the "backbone of army" against orc (could be backbone vs undead though depend on situation)

JW · Post by JW » October 25th, 2006, 7:19 pm

Gus wrote:are you really planning to avoid _villages_? Sounds like a sound plan ^^

I really want to 1v1 this guy now. I'll even give him 125g.

No. I think I'll just show him the "factional balance" instead.

Of course we'd have to play on 1.1.11, so I doubt he'd be up for it.

-edit-

Wolf Riders only have 50% in villages in dev. Be prepared.

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » October 25th, 2006, 7:35 pm

Higher Game wrote:
Orc Grunt- Mostly useless. .....
Troll Whelp- The backbone of the army. .....

I'm afraid I can't agree at all. Especially by grunts. That's almost demagogical.

In addition: Pack of assasins backed up by archers will efficiently defeat an equal amount of full - healed troll whelps (Ranged poison, good melee with 60 or 70 percent of defense and archers vs. 2 melee attacks, without ranged strike, not so good defense - that's clear, isn't it ???)

DraconicBlessing · Post by **DraconicBlessing** » October 25th, 2006, 9:22 pm

Higher Game wrote:
DraconicBlessing wrote: You'll find the trolls become more or less useless later on in that campaign. They get destroyed by all the human cavalry you'll end up facing.
I'm stuck on the last stage (ok, I looked it up, since I figured it HAD to be the last one, it was so damn hard), but my 2 surviving troll warriors are my greatest asset. The biggest threat I've gone up against are the gryphons that fly in from the dwarves, and they're weak against impact, making the troll warrior ideal. Also, a troll warrior is the best bridge guard.

I only have 100 gold, so I'm most likely going to give up, since taking on 2+ gryphons a turn, along with mermen and guarding the bridge, is just too difficult. Maybe replaying the earlier 2 stages would help out some, but you know I'm not a fan of that. :P

I don't remember any cavalry in the orc campaign. I think I fought 2 or so on the first stage, but that's it.

I guess this might be considered off-topic, Higher Game, if you're referring to the scenario just after "Saving Inarix" (which I think you are), you're not up to the last stage. Perhaps Son of the Black Eye didn't have any further scenarios in Wesnoth 1.0 - I don't know. Yes, the trolls are great in that scenario, I used them and Assassins for removing the Gryphons, but later on I found they become more or less useless.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » October 25th, 2006, 9:52 pm

DraconicBlessing wrote:I guess this might be considered off-topic, Higher Game, if you're referring to the scenario just after "Saving Inarix" (which I think you are), you're not up to the last stage.

No mainline version of SotBE ever had a scenario after that one.

Flametrooper · Post by **Flametrooper** » October 26th, 2006, 12:36 am

Higher Game: As I said in another thread, "...stop sticking your head where it will get bashed."

Higher Game · Post by **Higher Game** » October 26th, 2006, 2:01 am

Flametrooper wrote:Higher Game: As I said in another thread, "...stop sticking your head where it will get bashed."

It's relatively safe in between my well padded glutes, though.

/self depreciation is fun

Why were wolf riders nerfed so badly, anyway? They don't have a good distance attack like elf scouts and they don't have the power and resistances of cavalry. Their high village defense was a big part of their character.

The difference between 30% and 40% isn't a big deal (grunts and trolls), but the difference between 50% and 60% is very noticible.

Post by **Zhukov** » October 26th, 2006, 2:02 am

...but Flame, that was in this thread.

DraconicBlessing · Post by **DraconicBlessing** » October 26th, 2006, 6:12 am

Elvish Pillager wrote:
DraconicBlessing wrote:I guess this might be considered off-topic, Higher Game, if you're referring to the scenario just after "Saving Inarix" (which I think you are), you're not up to the last stage.
No mainline version of SotBE ever had a scenario after that one.

I'll just continue to reinforce the fact that I'm new to Wesnoth, shall I?

I've only been playing the latest version - I didn't even realise that SotBE was mainline.

Sombra · Post by **Sombra** » October 26th, 2006, 7:07 am

Higher Game wrote:
Why were wolf riders nerfed so badly, anyway? They don't have a good distance attack like elf scouts and they don't have the power and resistances of cavalry. Their high village defense was a big part of their character.

The difference between 30% and 40% isn't a big deal (grunts and trolls), but the difference between 50% and 60% is very noticible.

1. Race balance?

2. One of the most dangerous upgrade paths for pillagers?

You should really switch to the latest version.

Special note for 1.1.8-1.1.11

These versions are "stable beta" or "release candidate" versions. They exist so we can iron out bugs, but they will be very close to the final stable 1.2 release. They are generally balanced, stable, and bug-free, but we need your help to catch any remaining problems (which may or may not exist). Do not be afraid to download or play one of these later versions. The next paragraph is our "stock" paragraph about the development version, but because it is so late in the development cycle it's currently not 100% true (whereas it was very true for earlier releases).

Whats nice that your first post started again a discussion regarding strategy.

For the cracks out there. I could find any dedicated discussion regarding how to play specific maps, general strategies how to play clash, loris river, etc. Worthwhile discussion or will the changes in 1.2 be to big?

JW · Post by JW » October 26th, 2006, 7:39 am

Higher Game wrote:Why were wolf riders nerfed so badly, anyway? They don't have a good distance attack like elf scouts and they don't have the power and resistances of cavalry. Their high village defense was a big part of their character.

They cost 17 and have 1 mp over hills with 8mp.

Elves cost 18 and have 1 mp over forest, but have 40% def in villages.

Gryphons cost 24g.

Ghosts cost 20g, move 7, bats cost 13g, move 8, and suck at fighting.

Cavalry have 40% in villages and have bad movetype.

Drakes have max 40% def, aurians get 50% in villages

Gryphons weak to impact

horses weak to pierce

wolves weak to nothing

must I continue

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » October 26th, 2006, 10:23 am

JW wrote:They cost 17 and have 1 mp over hills with 8mp.

Elves cost 18 and have 1 mp over forest, but have 40% def in villages.

Wolves' village defense has recently been reduced to match elves'.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » October 26th, 2006, 11:11 am

Higher Game wrote:The difference between 30% and 40% isn't a big deal (grunts and trolls), but the difference between 50% and 60% is very noticible.

lol? mind giving arguments for that? because afaict, it makes no sense.

Post by **Dragonking** » October 26th, 2006, 11:31 am

Higher Game wrote:The difference between 30% and 40% isn't a big deal (grunts and trolls)

You are so wrong.

Elvish Pillager wrote:
JW wrote:They cost 17 and have 1 mp over hills with 8mp.

Elves cost 18 and have 1 mp over forest, but have 40% def in villages.
Wolves' village defense has recently been reduced to match elves'.

Um.. what?

Angry Andersen · Post by **Angry Andersen** » October 26th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Higher Game wrote:The difference between 30% and 40% isn't a big deal (grunts and trolls), but the difference between 50% and 60% is very noticible.

Having defence of 30% instead of 40% will result in being hit 16.6% more often while having 50% instead of 60% will result in being hit 25% more often. So the point that the difference isn't the same is valid.

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