The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Bag
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The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by Bag »

Hi,

Today I released my first campaign, The Birth of Sorcery, which in short tells about how the Great Academy on the Isle of Alduin was founded.
Presently, the campaign only has 10 scenarios, 3 of which are talk only. I plan for there to be 40 scenarios when the campaign is finished. The campaign is divided into "subsections" of 10 scenarios each. Before moving onto the 2nd part of the campaign, I would like to gather some feedback on the first part, to ensure that I can improve it as much as I can. I have attached a series of questions on how you would rate each aspect of the campaign, and any specific feedback which you are able to give.

Thank you.

Feedback Questions:
Spoiler:
EDIT:

I will try and update the campaign (if necessary) every Sunday, just to keep it up to date with feedback from those who have tested the campaign. I will be keeping a changelog here to summarise updates in each new version. Please continue giving feedback - it really helps me to develop the campaign and hopefully means I am able to make it the best it can be.

Changelog (from 21/11/2016):
Spoiler:
Last edited by Bag on November 22nd, 2016, 9:01 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

ahmannar
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by ahmannar »

The premise for the campaign seems interesting enough, so i gave it a try. I'm trying it initially on normal and it sure is an expert level campaign, currently i´m on the level "rising tides".
Spoiler:

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by Bag »

Thank you very much for the feedback.
On the subject of characters, the white mage and lieutenant were originally intended to simply be loyal units who would follow you throughout most of the campaign. I then felt that they should have some kind of dialogue (admittedly, quite late on into the campaign's development) this however meant that they would need to have been kept alive up to this point, which I obviously cannot guarantee. Admittedly, I didn't put much thought into trying to incorporate them into the main group of protagonists. This is something I can work on, along with maps, which I'll admit are not a strong point of mine. I personally find it difficult to make sure there is some variation when most of the campaign takes place on open flats. If you would care to suggest any specific elements which I could include in order to ensure that the maps don't seem quite as "artificial" as they do now, that would be very much appreciated.

Also, on the subject of your concerns about balance issues with the first scenario, I am aware that a one hex bridge can make it quite difficult to shift the Lvl. 2 Undead that are thrown at you. Strategic workarounds are possible, if you may lead the undead out into the open, that seems to prove quite effective. But I understand that once you've worked your way through the main onslaught it can be quite frustrating trying to gain a foothold on the other side of the river. This is another thing I can tackle later on. I will either add another bridge or perhaps add in a ford at that part of the river. Once you have pushed your way through to the other side of the river, provided that you have kept one or two infantrymen alive, they can be used to weaken the lich, and following that either Gwoddyn or his brother can easily finish him off. In answer to other issues, I plan to make another release next week which should resolve some if not all of these.

Once again, thank you very much for the feedback. It's highly appreciated :)
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

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The_Gnat
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by The_Gnat »

Bag wrote: If you would care to suggest any specific elements which I could include in order to ensure that the maps don't seem quite as "artificial" as they do now, that would be very much appreciated.
I look forward to trying your campaign, when i do i will post feedback but as far as making maps look more interesting you can add embelishment (fences,flowers, etc) in the map editor and add images scarecrows,barrels,etc by adding items in a prestart [event]

Code: Select all

{PLACE_IMAGE "items/chest.png" 9  2}
the two numbers specify the location to put the icon and the "" contain the image location other images can be found under the items folder (C:\Program Files (x86)\Battle for Wesnoth 1.12.0\data\core\images\items) in windows and the scenery folder (C:\Program Files (x86)\Battle for Wesnoth 1.12.0\data\core\images\scenery) just put items/OBJECT.png or scenery/OBJECT.png

Hope this helps
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
Co-designer of the (not-wesnoth) space combat video game Planet Bounce.

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by Bag »

v0.1.1 was uploaded today, with various changes which you have mentioned:

- Change in storyline with regards to the lieutenant and the mage
- Much of the dialogue has been changed, with some messages being added.
- 3rd combat scenario modified - you now receive a loyal unit and an allied side has been added
- Some maps slightly modified - 1st combat scenario 1 hex bridge removed, replaced with ~3 hex ford, 7th scenario water bodies removed, 10th Scenario's map slightly changed with addition of embellishments and more villages

Please keep sending feedback, as it helps a lot with isolating conceptual errors in WML, and in general improving the campaign.
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

ahmannar
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Joined: August 26th, 2012, 11:09 pm

Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by ahmannar »

Since the campaign doesn´t have many scenarios yet and it seemed like there was many changes, i decided to replay it all over again.
If you don´t mind, i´m just gonna say some general things and not follow the "feedback guide":

Return to the village:
Spoiler:
The Journey Begins:
Spoiler:
Archesian Citadel
Spoiler:
Leaving the Desert:
Spoiler:
Rising Tides:
Spoiler:
Whispering Forest:
Spoiler:
Westguard Harbour:
Spoiler:
Invasion from the west:
Spoiler:
I think you have a very nice concept in here, so good luck with your work on this ;)

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by Bag »

Thanks for keeping the feedback coming. In answer to some of your queries...
Spoiler:
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery

Post by Bag »

Version 0.1.2 Released Today (16/11/2016)
EDIT: Some small bugs have been encountered. I will be reuploading it shortly with these fixed.
EDIT: 0.1.2 is now up and running without any known bugs
Changelog:
Spoiler:
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

ahmannar
Posts: 166
Joined: August 26th, 2012, 11:09 pm

Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by ahmannar »

I noticed some things while replaying the campaign:

->Is it intentional that some of the hero units have 3 traits, while others only have 2?
->The leader of the city talks about the group having 6 people in it, when in fact there´s only 4;
-> The enemy leader of the 1 scenario has the prefix "Mal". Since it seems you´re trying to follow the canon of BfW, another name could be more appropriate in here, since the cannon implies that the first lich to use it was Mal-keshar (he was Malin keshar prior to his "death") and this story happens before that time.

EDIT:
->The enemy leader on "Leaving the forest" is too suicidal for his own good also. He leaves his keep whenever he can attack someone, which makes him get killed while still having nearly 300 gold with him;
->The dialogue of "rising tides" says that there mermen on the north, when they are in the south;
->With regards to the "nullification" of the previous scenarios, i meant that the experience the player units gained on them doesn´t really effect the last one, because of the dimension of the armies and the fact that the best units (the heroes) aren´t really fighting in it.
->Maybe delambor could also be automatically recalled in the last level?

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by Bag »

Is it intentional that some of the hero units have 3 traits, while others only have 2?
Spoiler:
The enemy leader on "Leaving the forest" is too suicidal for his own good also. He leaves his keep whenever he can attack someone, which makes him get killed while still having nearly 300 gold with him
- AI behaviour modifications have been implemented in the most recent update (today) to try and prevent this now.
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

ahmannar
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by ahmannar »

I´m just making too much excuses to not play the last level at this point xD

Prologue:
Spoiler:
General Things:
Spoiler:
I´ll be putting replays in here and update this post, in case you are interested. Is there anything else that you would be interested to hear that i haven´t talked about already?

EDIT:

Leaving the Desert:
Spoiler:
Rising Tides:
Spoiler:
Attachments
BoS-Rising_Tides_replay.gz
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BoS-Leaving_the_Desert_replay.gz
(29.74 KiB) Downloaded 194 times
BoS-The_Journey_Begins_replay.gz
(16.67 KiB) Downloaded 191 times
BoS-Return_to_the_Village_replay.gz
(33.53 KiB) Downloaded 201 times

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by Bag »

v0.1.15 - Released 21/11/2016
N.B I plan for this to be the last update before 0.2.0 is rolled out, with another 10 scenarios included, so there may be a long wait in between now and then.
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

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Inky
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by Inky »

Hey, I've just played up until the last scenario of the first part on Hard. I like the story so far and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next!

Gold: The 80% carryover system and relatively few villages mean you'll probably always end up with minimum starting gold. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it does make usual Wesnoth things like watching upkeep/village grabbing/finishing early not worth it.

Difficulty: Overall the balance seemed fine (challenging but doable), but I did find Rising Tides too hard. Looking at some of the cfg files it seems there is very little difference between easy/medium/hard difficulties. Maybe "easy" could be renamed "normal" and there could be a new "easy" difficulty?

S6 Rising Tides: I think this scenario is too hard; there are just too many loyalists and you only get two keeps of units, most of them crappy level 0 which will die to one enemy attack. Even with 3 spearmen leveled from last scenario, I only managed to win due to very good luck (+8% inflicted/-2% taken). I think the loyalists could use slightly less gold.

S7 Whispering Forest: Maybe tone down the ghosts a bit? There were quite a lot, and it can be very difficult to manage if your heroes are still level 2. (Fortunately for me, I was able to level both the white mage and the elvish lord during the scenario). Also since the elvish lord's arcane damage plays such a critical role in this scenario, maybe give a bonus to help players who don't have him (e.g. a holy water for Arbin)?

S8 Westguard Harbor: Maybe there should be an initial turn limit for killing the harbor guard, and then add a set amount of turns to survive for. Otherwise, you could just wait until the last turns to kill the harbor guard, and avoid the undead entirely. Also, maybe the heroes could just start next to the harbor; it seems pretty pointless to have to move them all to the harbor for 10+ turns.

Also, about the story here - did we really just casually decide to murder someone to steal his ship because we couldn't afford it?! Or was the harbor guard evil to begin with?

S10 Invasion from the west: I haven't played this scenario yet, but I have to agree with ahmannar that it's too tedious due to the huge gold amounts. I really don't want to micromanage 1000 gold worth of level 1s. Maybe the gold for all sides could be halved?

Typos:
Westguard harbor line 405: I fear our fighting force may be overwhelmed -> missing punctuation at end
Invasion from the west line 22: propsered -> prospered
And a small detail: half of the time "Wesnoth" is capitalized, and the rest of the time it isn't.

---
Thanks for your hard work in making this campaign- 40 scenarios sounds pretty epic; best of luck in making the rest!

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The_Gnat
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by The_Gnat »

Hi Bag, i have started playing BoS, I have only played the first scenario but i thought i would post as i go along.

First of all i want to say i really like your campaign and think you have done a good job! :D

The new unit you have created for the main character is really cool, however it currently it takes 975 xp to advance your sorcerer fully which means your unit would have to kill approximately 100 units just with your leader. This may happen over 40 scenarios but it means that the player very rarely will advance the leader. I think it would be great if you either add more advancements level 6 and even 7 and 8 and then reduced the xp it takes to advance your leader so you are able to advance more often.

Alternatively if you add a advancement system like for kaleh in UtBS it would be great. The advancements for kaleh in UtBS were really awesome :mrgreen: and added much to the campaign and i believe it would be appropriate for a sorcerer learning spells!

I have experience at creating advancement systems like this and if you are interested in considering this idea i can create a demonstration of how this advancement system would work. :D

As for the campaign itself i noticed that your maps were slightly lacking on details outside the area of combat. Personally i really like maps that are detailed even in areas you are not in because it adds to the feeling of the game. Below i have attached a modified version of the 2nd scenarios map. In it i have quickly added some detail around the edges of the map, you don't have to use my map but it would be appreciated if you added more details to the maps when you have time! :D

Also when Stolyn Dragonfelt is talking to you in scenario 2 he says "...Many of our veteran troops lie dead on the floor..." I think it would sound better if he said "..Many of our veteran troops lie dead on the ground..." ;)

Also i like it that in scenario 2 you can only recruit a few of each of the good units!

Please post what you think of my ideas! I will post more when i play further!

Thank you for creating this campaign! :D
Attachments
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Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
Co-designer of the (not-wesnoth) space combat video game Planet Bounce.

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Bag
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Re: The Birth of Sorcery (BETA)

Post by Bag »

Hi, much as I doubt that many people have visited this forum, I'd just like to apologise about my inactivity for over a year now! I hope to resume work on this campaign shortly, and eventually maybe even finish it. If any of you are still around for it I hope you'll be able to continue supporting me through it.
Finished Projects: (N/A)
WiP Projects: The Birth of Sorcery (Campaign)
Planned Projects: Exodus (Campaign)

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