Whatever happened to Vampires?
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LordTobias
- Posts: 59
- Joined: September 14th, 2004, 5:03 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Whatever happened to Vampires?
Er...as the title suggests, I think that the undead are missing one important thing: Vampires. I don't know much of the history of the game, as I've only been playing for around a week and a half, and just signed up on the forums, but I think vampires would add more personality.
Not necessarily anything new in terms of units, but I'm a vampire whore. Sue me.
I've no experience in graphics, so I can't produce those too well. Perhaps someone has a great deal of kindness in his heart who would help?
There is, however, one REALLY major problem with the use of vampires. Daylight. They are said to be killed by sunlight. I have a suggestion for this, and that is that their HP are automatically cut in half whenever sunlight touches them, and they can not regain these hit points. (Which makes them close to worthless when used in day time) Although, it would be excellent if that didn't take effect if they were within the confines of a town, or castle. I also haven't considered weaknesses or costs yet, but I'll get back to that later with a post edit.
Whichever the case, I suggest these as stats:
Level 1
Vampire Thrall
HP: 45
XP: 60
Claw (pierce): 6/3
Bite (drain): 4/2
Movement: 5 or 6
No ranged attacks for this class, however. I also think a chain would be excellent for this point, as some vampires use different techniques, etc.
Description: The lowliest form of vampire are the Thrall, or the newly turned, still under direct influence of their masters. They may, however, aspire to great deals of power and form their own armies...if they live long enough.
Level 2 (chain one)
Necromantic Vampire
HP: 48
XP: 150
Claw (pierce/plague): 6/3 (This would make sense if it raised just walking corpses)
Bite (drain): 4/3
Cold Wave (same attack as a Necromancer, really): 12/2
Movement: 6
Description: These are the vampires who aspire not to physical prowess, but rather toward their abilities in magics. They prefer raising slain enemies from the dead to serve them as little more than corpses -- granted that there's enough of a body for one.
Level 3 (chain one)
Necromantic Antideluvian
HP: 65
XP: /
Claw (pierce/plague): 7/3 (Raises corpses as Vampire Thralls)
Bite (drain): 4/4
Cold Wave (same attack as a Necromancer, really): 14/4
Movement: 6
Description: The Necromantic Antideluvians have reached the pinnacle of strength that magic favoring vampires can reach. He is a force to be feared on battle, as he can raise those he kills as Thralls in his indomitable service.
Level 2 (chain two)
Vampire Lord
HP: 60
XP: 100
Sword (slash): 10/4
Bite (drain): 6/3
Bow (ranged): 6/2
Movement: 6
Description: The next step in the evolutionary chain for physical preferring vampires, the Lords are formiddable in battle, although their ranged attacks are basic at best, as they prefer battle face to face.
Level 3 (chain two)
Vampire King
HP: 72
XP:300
Sword (slash): 12/4
Bite (drain): 6/3
Bow (ranged): 6/2
Movement: 6
Description: The typical vampire with enough ambition, and enough luck to live long enough, may reach a level of strength unknown by most men. His greatest weakness is sunlight, and it is there that most men will only be able to defeat him.
Level 4 (chain two)
Vampire Messiah
HP: 80
XP: /
Sword (slash/plague): 12/4 (would work well if it raised Vampire Lords)
Bite (drain): 6/4
Cold Wave: 12/2
Movement: 7
Description: The most powerful vampire to ever live, a Messiah is generally accepted as the "Greatest Lord" of his kind. It is said that the only way he can possibly be beaten is by luring him into the light of day and striking him down with the holiest of weapons.
As you can see, they DO seem a bit powerful, but considering the proposed auto 50% HP cut during daylight, it really cuts down their power. Plus, I was thinking some weaknesses to fire, and 100% weakness to holy would be good.
I was also going to put in the stats something about regeneration, but I'm not sure if it's possible to have varying degrees. For instance, lowest level regens 2 or 4, and each level upward increases by 2 points of regeneration. Again, they do seem overpowered, but the high exp needed and a high cost, etc, could balance that out.
Any feedback would be excellent!
Not necessarily anything new in terms of units, but I'm a vampire whore. Sue me.
I've no experience in graphics, so I can't produce those too well. Perhaps someone has a great deal of kindness in his heart who would help?
There is, however, one REALLY major problem with the use of vampires. Daylight. They are said to be killed by sunlight. I have a suggestion for this, and that is that their HP are automatically cut in half whenever sunlight touches them, and they can not regain these hit points. (Which makes them close to worthless when used in day time) Although, it would be excellent if that didn't take effect if they were within the confines of a town, or castle. I also haven't considered weaknesses or costs yet, but I'll get back to that later with a post edit.
Whichever the case, I suggest these as stats:
Level 1
Vampire Thrall
HP: 45
XP: 60
Claw (pierce): 6/3
Bite (drain): 4/2
Movement: 5 or 6
No ranged attacks for this class, however. I also think a chain would be excellent for this point, as some vampires use different techniques, etc.
Description: The lowliest form of vampire are the Thrall, or the newly turned, still under direct influence of their masters. They may, however, aspire to great deals of power and form their own armies...if they live long enough.
Level 2 (chain one)
Necromantic Vampire
HP: 48
XP: 150
Claw (pierce/plague): 6/3 (This would make sense if it raised just walking corpses)
Bite (drain): 4/3
Cold Wave (same attack as a Necromancer, really): 12/2
Movement: 6
Description: These are the vampires who aspire not to physical prowess, but rather toward their abilities in magics. They prefer raising slain enemies from the dead to serve them as little more than corpses -- granted that there's enough of a body for one.
Level 3 (chain one)
Necromantic Antideluvian
HP: 65
XP: /
Claw (pierce/plague): 7/3 (Raises corpses as Vampire Thralls)
Bite (drain): 4/4
Cold Wave (same attack as a Necromancer, really): 14/4
Movement: 6
Description: The Necromantic Antideluvians have reached the pinnacle of strength that magic favoring vampires can reach. He is a force to be feared on battle, as he can raise those he kills as Thralls in his indomitable service.
Level 2 (chain two)
Vampire Lord
HP: 60
XP: 100
Sword (slash): 10/4
Bite (drain): 6/3
Bow (ranged): 6/2
Movement: 6
Description: The next step in the evolutionary chain for physical preferring vampires, the Lords are formiddable in battle, although their ranged attacks are basic at best, as they prefer battle face to face.
Level 3 (chain two)
Vampire King
HP: 72
XP:300
Sword (slash): 12/4
Bite (drain): 6/3
Bow (ranged): 6/2
Movement: 6
Description: The typical vampire with enough ambition, and enough luck to live long enough, may reach a level of strength unknown by most men. His greatest weakness is sunlight, and it is there that most men will only be able to defeat him.
Level 4 (chain two)
Vampire Messiah
HP: 80
XP: /
Sword (slash/plague): 12/4 (would work well if it raised Vampire Lords)
Bite (drain): 6/4
Cold Wave: 12/2
Movement: 7
Description: The most powerful vampire to ever live, a Messiah is generally accepted as the "Greatest Lord" of his kind. It is said that the only way he can possibly be beaten is by luring him into the light of day and striking him down with the holiest of weapons.
As you can see, they DO seem a bit powerful, but considering the proposed auto 50% HP cut during daylight, it really cuts down their power. Plus, I was thinking some weaknesses to fire, and 100% weakness to holy would be good.
I was also going to put in the stats something about regeneration, but I'm not sure if it's possible to have varying degrees. For instance, lowest level regens 2 or 4, and each level upward increases by 2 points of regeneration. Again, they do seem overpowered, but the high exp needed and a high cost, etc, could balance that out.
Any feedback would be excellent!
I think Vampires...
a)are a too special unit and
b)have too many real-world ties
c)Sort of demand Werewolves getting included too.
We have the Vampire Lady, a special unit. Appears only in rare cases. Allowing recruitment sort of makes them wishy-washy.
Thanks for proposing it, though. It'll be good to get this discussed.
a)are a too special unit and
b)have too many real-world ties
c)Sort of demand Werewolves getting included too.
We have the Vampire Lady, a special unit. Appears only in rare cases. Allowing recruitment sort of makes them wishy-washy.
Thanks for proposing it, though. It'll be good to get this discussed.
Altough i like the idea it would over power the Undead (not that i don't want that). Also the idea of a level 4 raising level twos is over powering. The might make good leaders if the devs want to make fourth level leaders. ( although i still like myno's idea of chosing a second level unit)
Don't insult my spelling!
Don't insult my spelling!
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LordTobias
- Posts: 59
- Joined: September 14th, 2004, 5:03 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Yeah, I do think it IS kind of weird to recruit them...But, I do have a proposed idea for that.
That would be that the vampires you can start off with are heroes (The guys that can't be killed or the scenario is failed). I think that would be an excellent way to implement vampires without cheapening them.
Also, a lot of elements in the game have real world ties, but probably not as many as vampires, since there are so many ideas out there it's...well...ridiculous. I'm going more along the lines of Warhammer vampires, as I had the Von Carsteins in mind, to be honest. That's likely where the inpsiration came from, besides me being a vampire whore.
Edit: J-ser, you hit it right on. I was thinking of them being leaders, or heroes. Which is what my post reads. Er..the repost. I was typing it up as you posted, actually. I'd like to talk over with the team that made and updates the game and see if I might be able to work with them here.
That does sound a little crazy, doesn't it?... No sense in not trying, though.
That would be that the vampires you can start off with are heroes (The guys that can't be killed or the scenario is failed). I think that would be an excellent way to implement vampires without cheapening them.
Also, a lot of elements in the game have real world ties, but probably not as many as vampires, since there are so many ideas out there it's...well...ridiculous. I'm going more along the lines of Warhammer vampires, as I had the Von Carsteins in mind, to be honest. That's likely where the inpsiration came from, besides me being a vampire whore.
Edit: J-ser, you hit it right on. I was thinking of them being leaders, or heroes. Which is what my post reads. Er..the repost. I was typing it up as you posted, actually. I'd like to talk over with the team that made and updates the game and see if I might be able to work with them here.
That does sound a little crazy, doesn't it?... No sense in not trying, though.
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LordTobias
- Posts: 59
- Joined: September 14th, 2004, 5:03 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I just used Messiah because I couldn't think of anything else, to be honest. (I also meant feed back for names...'cause Messiah sounds a little TOO religious)
And gaze makes a WHOLE lot more sense. I really like gaze and the slow effect, actually. Makes a lot of sense. Much more than the use of the bow.
I just used sword 'cause some of the higher powered vampires use swords, but claws would basically be the same thing. (there's really no difference there)
Any other ideas?
And gaze makes a WHOLE lot more sense. I really like gaze and the slow effect, actually. Makes a lot of sense. Much more than the use of the bow.
I just used sword 'cause some of the higher powered vampires use swords, but claws would basically be the same thing. (there's really no difference there)
Any other ideas?
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LordTobias
- Posts: 59
- Joined: September 14th, 2004, 5:03 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
All undead have 100% weakness to holy. (Except ghosts, but they got their hp cut in half just now, and gained resistances to make up for it.) So what's the big deal?
Give it 300% and we're talking. After all, any hit with a holy weapon (or even waving a holy symbol) supposedly slays a vampire. That and a stake through the heart. Weakness to Pierce weapons too, I'd say.
Give it 300% and we're talking. After all, any hit with a holy weapon (or even waving a holy symbol) supposedly slays a vampire. That and a stake through the heart. Weakness to Pierce weapons too, I'd say.
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LordTobias
- Posts: 59
- Joined: September 14th, 2004, 5:03 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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LordTobias
- Posts: 59
- Joined: September 14th, 2004, 5:03 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
She looks to be pretty good, but, as you can see, is different in some ways from the idea that I had. Still, she's the same in some ways. I do think that the drain attack SHOULD be an alternative, but should also do a little less damage. I really like the gaze attack idea, and I think the idea of being able to raise vampire thralls when using the normal claw attack works well.
Any thoughts when comparing my ideas with the vampire lady?
Any thoughts when comparing my ideas with the vampire lady?
I'd suggest writing or at least sketching out a campaign with these units.
In my experience it is much easier to get new units included when they actually directly contribute something to the game, and since you intend to make heros/leaders of them, do just that.
Noone will make a fuzz if you create new units for your campaign, and if people like them....
Use UGLY graphics if you can't produce nice graphics, and who knows, if any of the graphics artists like your campaign, they'll might just volunteer to improve them....
In my experience it is much easier to get new units included when they actually directly contribute something to the game, and since you intend to make heros/leaders of them, do just that.
Noone will make a fuzz if you create new units for your campaign, and if people like them.... Use UGLY graphics if you can't produce nice graphics, and who knows, if any of the graphics artists like your campaign, they'll might just volunteer to improve them....
i didn't like the vampire lady getting in and i'm against any more vampire units getting in. Sorry.
Also, we DO have a vampire bat, so vampires themselves i think are redundant.
Also, we DO have a vampire bat, so vampires themselves i think are redundant.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
[hypothetically speaking]
How about Messiah -> Vampire Avatar? Since we're forum junkies we associate avatar as the stupid graphic under our names, but it's similar to Messiah... divine presence in a corporeal form.
[more hypotheticals ignoring vary large problems]
I think the best way for Vampires to fit into wesnoth is as a faction rather than as an extension to undead. Then give them a campaign. To proposed strenghts and weaknesses are very interesting wrt holy/pierce weakness, sunlight, branches, etc.
[now, the problems]
Vampires don't fit into wesnoth any more than space aliens do. Yes, it's possible aliens can visit wesnoth, but let's not, ok? I'm trying not to be hostile because in one sense I really like the idea, but because it's too incongruous with the rest of things I believe it wrecks things more than it contributes.
Drakes are very contraversial for the exact same reason, and it's somewhat of a stretch to show how even they fit into the Wesnoth flavor. Showing how they fit into the Wesnoth history is a matter of writing good plot, but getting it to fit with TWP is something else. Sorry.
How about Messiah -> Vampire Avatar? Since we're forum junkies we associate avatar as the stupid graphic under our names, but it's similar to Messiah... divine presence in a corporeal form.
[more hypotheticals ignoring vary large problems]
I think the best way for Vampires to fit into wesnoth is as a faction rather than as an extension to undead. Then give them a campaign. To proposed strenghts and weaknesses are very interesting wrt holy/pierce weakness, sunlight, branches, etc.
[now, the problems]
Vampires don't fit into wesnoth any more than space aliens do. Yes, it's possible aliens can visit wesnoth, but let's not, ok? I'm trying not to be hostile because in one sense I really like the idea, but because it's too incongruous with the rest of things I believe it wrecks things more than it contributes.
Drakes are very contraversial for the exact same reason, and it's somewhat of a stretch to show how even they fit into the Wesnoth flavor. Showing how they fit into the Wesnoth history is a matter of writing good plot, but getting it to fit with TWP is something else. Sorry.