Modest ability proposal: Finesse

[Neoskel]

I didn't find anything like this in the FPI, and it's a pretty toned down idea so i think it's not too bad. Also, this is intended to be considered for mainline so no CABD and stuff like that please.

The thinking behind this is that there's no way to boost melee accuracy currently in mainline short of the enemy being idiotic when choosing terrain. I feel that this helps orcish assassins a little too much, any unit that tries to hit them in ranged (with marksmanship or magical abilities) has a pretty good chance of being poisoned even if they use good terrain. This can be pretty debilitating in multiplayer as most healers can't cure poison until the second level (which can be particularly difficult to obtain for casters).

I figure that there needs to be some form of enhanced hit chance for melee attacks (just tacking marksmanship onto a melee attack feels weird) and i feel it should have a different feel than marksmanship or magical attacks. So what i'm proposing is an ability called 'Finesse' or something like that which always gives at least a 50% chance to hit, both while attacking and defending. It should be about as balanced as marksmanship with the reduced accuracy offsetting the use in both defense and attack. It's basically only useful against highly evasive units and units in really good terrain yet doesn't carry a disadvantage to hitting units in really bad terrain like magical attacks do. The only mainline units that this kind of ability would really fit thematically are the loyalist fencer line and (ironically) the orcish assassin line. Also the Drake Blademaster. Maybe a dwarf like the scout line.

I feel that the fencer line is the most appropriate for this kind of ability, as their attack feels a little ineffectual to me in most situations. Finesse would also lend some punch to their skirmisher ability. I think it wouldn't be prudent to let all level 1 fencers have such an ability especially since loyalists already have mages at level 1, so i'd propose level 2 Duelists to have 'Finesse'.

To be clear: Finesse - at least 50% chance to hit on both attack and defence (melee)

[Aethaeryn]

It's not that big of an impact, since lvl 2s usually show up in multiplayer when the game is over and fencers rarely if ever show up in singleplayer. I'm not sure that this can be rejected explicitly by balance.

[Velensk]

I think it could. It would make quite a difference in knalgan vs loyalists (where fencers do show up with some frequency)

[Gambit]

I think it could. It would make quite a difference in knalgan vs loyalists (where fencers do show up with some frequency)

But how often do they level? (it sounds sarcastic but this is a serious question as I've never played MP dwarves vs loys)
Of course once this ability is added the loyalist players might place more emphasis on leveling up a fencer in these situations

[Caphriel]

Fencers level reasonably often when they're used, and they're not hard to level if you're trying. Because they have skirmish and 4 attacks, they're often used to finish off wounded units. An intelligent one needs 3 kills to level.

Also, adding an accuracy buff to the level 2 fencer wouldn't really change the loyalist vs northerner matchup much, because people don't use fencers much, that I've seen. A mage at day can kill an assassin with about a 33% ctk, and a spearman has a pretty good shot at finishing it off if the mage hits twice.

[doofus-01]

just tacking marksmanship onto a melee attack feels weird)

If you look at how the marksman ability macro is defined (<wesnothfolder>/data/core/macros/abilities.cfg), you'll see that you can give the ability any name you wish.

[Velensk]

I misread the suggestion, I thought he was proposing it for the level 1. If it's only on the level 2/higher I don't think it would be a huge deal.

[Neoskel]

just tacking marksmanship onto a melee attack feels weird)

If you look at how the marksman ability macro is defined (<wesnothfolder>/data/core/macros/abilities.cfg), you'll see that you can give the ability any name you wish.

Well, i think that a more accurate melee attack would work differently than an accurate ranged attack would anyways. The reason that marksman only works on offense is because the shooter has time to properly take a bead on the enemy, while when he's being attacked he doesn't have the luxury. An accurate melee fighter wouldn't have this problem, he has to close in on the enemy on the attack anyways so when the enemy comes to him and attacks it doesn't really affect him.

I think it could. It would make quite a difference in knalgan vs loyalists (where fencers do show up with some frequency)

Actually, if fencers do turn up that much in a loys vs. knalgans match this could still unbalance it in favor of the loyalists as any fencer that levels will be able to butcher any evasive units easily. Thematically this kind of ability would fit the fencer line best, but it looks like it could hurt balance if they get it (even at level 2).

I wish there was a more appropriate unit (at level 1) for this ability to apply to in a faction that needs it more, like Knalgans but thematically it doesn't really fit anyone there (except the thief line, but backstab is plenty good already). Drakes could use something like this too as their saurian mages are pretty fragile so poison would be especially debilitating to them. And gliders do crap damage in ranged.

Any ideas where else this could be useful (in mainline factions)?

[Darkmage]

Maybe saurian skirimishers?

Also there would be a problem,a 9-5 or 10-5(can't remember well) lvl3 fencer would be devastating high def always and good chance to hit, quite similar to marksman elf lvl3, only difference is that is easier to hit, not in forest, and has much lower health, anyway, i think the idea is quite ok and interesting.

[A Guy]

only difference is that is easier to hit, not in forest, and has much lower health

Elvish Marksmen don't have negative physical resistances.

[Zarel]

I wish there was a more appropriate unit (at level 1) for this ability to apply to in a faction that needs it more, like Knalgans but thematically it doesn't really fit anyone there (except the thief line, but backstab is plenty good already).

I've wondered if it would be a good idea to give marksman to (at least the later units of) the Thunderer line's ranged attack. I mean, they're considered a bit underpowered ("horsemen without the second chance", according to Aethaeryn), and it'd make sense that if you only got one chance to hit someone, you'd expend a lot of effort to make sure you hit.

Alternatively, add runesmiths and runemasters from SoF to Knalgans. They seem reasonably well-balanced to me.

Also there would be a problem,a 9-5 or 10-5(can't remember well) lvl3 fencer would be devastating high def always and good chance to hit, quite similar to marksman elf lvl3, only difference is that is easier to hit, not in forest, and has much lower health, anyway, i think the idea is quite ok and interesting.

Master at Arms only does 7-5.

[Yoyobuae]

Maybe saurian skirimishers?

Poor, poor elves. Now even hiding in forest doesn't help.

And since its 50% or more chance to hit, there's some effect when attacking villages too (and saurians nearly everywhere).

I guess anywhere you would put this ability it will have a negative effect on balance.

[A Guy]

Alternatively, add runesmiths and runemasters from SoF to Knalgans. They seem reasonably well-balanced to me.

Just because the units themselves are balanced, that doesn't mean they're balanced when put in a faction. Consider the effect this will have on Knalgans v. Undead matches.

[Zarel]

Just because the units themselves are balanced, that doesn't mean they're balanced when put in a faction. Consider the effect this will have on Knalgans v. Undead matches.

It seems that it wouldn't be unbalanced. Runesmiths do an average of 19.6 damage to skeletons. Steelclads do an average of 20.4 to skeletons on flat terrain, 17 to skeletons on favorable terrain, and 13.6 to skeletons on villages/mountains. On the other hand, Steelclads have 1.5x as much HP as Runesmiths, and higher average damage to other units, so it works out to about the same in the end.

It would probably unbalance Knalgans v. Rebels more, but I don't think by too much.

[A Guy]

Steelclads can't retaliate against Adepts.