I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

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Kirk
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I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by Kirk »

Are the Loyalists loyal to King Garard, and the Rebels loyal to Queen Asheviere as it states: "Delfador gathers a force of Loyalists to avenge Garard's Death?" Or are they loyal to just the throne as it states, "the Loyalists are a faction of Humans who are loyal to the throne of Wesnoth?"

Regarding Elven Rebels, the History of Wesnoth states: "They get their human name, Rebels, from the time of Heir to the Throne, when they started the rebellion against the evil Queen Asheviere." So, are Loyalists and Rebels the same? But, wait! There are "outlaw" humans as well: "The Knalgan Alliance is a faction of Dwarves and their outlaw Human allies." Is "outlaw" synomonous to "rebel?"

I was planning to do a campaign, but obviously need to clear this up! Thanks!
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Flameslash
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by Flameslash »

Loyalists are Humans who obey The Crown.
Rebels are Elves who fight alongside Konrad.
Outlaws are Humans who hate the Crown.
Velensk
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by Velensk »

Storywise the loyalists are the humans who support the current monarch (whether this is the king or Ashivere), the rebels are the elves who set off to fight Ashivere. The outlaws are just what their name says; criminals.

As for the descriptions you were getting those were strictly from the multiplayer factions. They don't corrolate with the campaigns very well.
Loyalists are humans and merman support
Rebels are elves and their wose/merman/human allies.
Knalgans are dwarves and their human allies. The humans that are allied to the dwarves are chaotic.
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Joram
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by Joram »

The Faction names don't really have much to do with the campaigns.

The factions mostly got their names from the Heir to the Throne campaign, but other campaigns don't have to fit the faction names into their story.

So if you want to do a campaign, you don't have to worry about faction names.
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by thespaceinvader »

Joram wrote:The Faction names don't really have much to do with the campaigns.

The factions mostly got their names from the Heir to the Throne campaign, but other campaigns don't have to fit the faction names into their story.

So if you want to do a campaign, you don't have to worry about faction names.
QFT.

The MP factions are only really relevant to HttT, and even they they bear little resemblance to it anymore, since they've changed around a lot for balancing purposes.
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randomdragoon
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by randomdragoon »

Especially telling is how there's one merman on loyalists and another merman on rebels.

Though I wish the Mermaid Initiate got some MP use. That, and the thug, but the mermaid is cooler.
Caphriel
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by Caphriel »

The thug was removed from the Knalgans because it was too useful, especially against the undead (if I recall correctly). I suspect the initiate is out for similar reasons. Most waterbased/flying units have excellent dodge in water; a unit with a magical attack would significantly change the waterborne balance of power.
TheGreatRings
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by TheGreatRings »

To echo what's already been said, the multiplayer factions bear little resembalance to the campaigns. They are crafted specifically for balanced multiplayer gameplay, where in the campaigns, units from various faction may combine and align (by the end of Heir to the Throne, for example, Konrad's army includes Rebel, Loyalist, and Knalgan units). Also, in the timeline, the Knalgan Alliance doesn't even exist until after many of the campaigns chronologically (it was created by rebelling human slaves who outlawed with dwarves some years after Konrad's war). Prior to that, the outlaw units were just that-outlaws, and had no alliance with the dwarves so far as I am aware.
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randomdragoon
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by randomdragoon »

Caphriel wrote:The thug was removed from the Knalgans because it was too useful, especially against the undead (if I recall correctly). I suspect the initiate is out for similar reasons. Most waterbased/flying units have excellent dodge in water; a unit with a magical attack would significantly change the waterborne balance of power.
Initiates are expensive though, and their attacking power really isn't that great especially for their cost.
If anything, I just kind of wish there was some campaign where you could use them extensively. HttT has them, but really not enough water to justify training one (and they take a ton of XP, almost as much as mages)
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by TheGreatRings »

randomdragoon wrote:
Caphriel wrote:The thug was removed from the Knalgans because it was too useful, especially against the undead (if I recall correctly). I suspect the initiate is out for similar reasons. Most waterbased/flying units have excellent dodge in water; a unit with a magical attack would significantly change the waterborne balance of power.
Initiates are expensive though, and their attacking power really isn't that great especially for their cost.
If anything, I just kind of wish there was some campaign where you could use them extensively. HttT has them, but really not enough water to justify training one (and they take a ton of XP, almost as much as mages)
I beg to differ. Besides Bay of Pearls and the immediately following map if you go by sea, their is Elensefar, plus the one where you meet Li'sar, the river crossing when Konrad heads north, at least two or three maps after leaving the caves with extensive river or swamp terrain.

I promoted multiple mermen during that campaign, including at least one initiate if I recall.
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AThousandYoung
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by AThousandYoung »

There are 2 Storm Tridents in the game! How can you not promote 2 Fighters, and of course a Mermaid Priestess...I also promoted the javelin guy to a netthrower.
randomdragoon
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by randomdragoon »

However, consider the opportunity cost of XP. Would you rather promote a priestess, or another Grand Knight? (Which takes less XP, by the way) Keep in mind the priestess is only useful on certain levels, while the Grand Knight is useful almost all the time (except on the river crossing and the cave levels, where the priestess wouldn't do well anyway)

Edit: Yes the storm tridents make two mermen useful but it's a waste to give to an initiate anyway
AThousandYoung
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by AThousandYoung »

Priestesses are awesome for those marshy levels that undead like.
Caphriel
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Re: I'm Not Clear As To Who Are Loyalists, Rebels, and Outlaws

Post by Caphriel »

AThousandYoung wrote:Priestesses are awesome for those marshy levels that undead like.
Pretty much. I try to always level one by Siege of Elensefar. A water-borne healer/arcane damage dealer makes the merman attack on the orc flank much stronger, and it's great for intercepting the undead at the bridges.
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