Movement-Based Attacks

[Max]

usually it's a bad sign if even veterans have some difficulty to understand how a proposed skill works^^

i'm not sure if i made myself clear enough when i said "lot's of turn-based games actually have (or rather had) a connection between damage and move points". What i meant was just the fact, that you have a certain amount of move points and you can spend them by either moving or attacking (usually attacking costs more than 1mp, often depending on the weapon).

it's quite clear that wesnoth does not use this approach, my guess would be that this was an intentional decision. if someone implemented a weapon special where e.g. the number of strikes was based on remaining mp's - would this be considered unwesnothian? i personally like it, but i've never seen such a special suggested before (or being put in "frequently proposed good ideas")

[Turuk]

if someone implemented a weapon special where e.g. the number of strikes was based on remaining mp's - would this be considered unwesnothian? i personally like it, but i've never seen such a special suggested

It would make for an interesting unit. You either have the ability to move like a normal unit (4-5 hexes), or move extremely slow and get in 2-3 strikes. Giving the unit movement points greater than that to a unit with this special in order to make it move/attack closer to a regular unit would end up making it be able to move pretty far... Eh, it's one of those things where you'd have to try it out and see how it plays to hammer it out.

[Max]

i thought of something like that (let's say unit has 6mp):
0-3: 1 strike
4-5: 2 strikes
6: 3 strikes

could this already be done in wml? maybe using the attack event, store unit to get remaining move points, adapt strikes, unstore unit, reset in attack_end... what about (un)condsider attack, would this allow to display correct attack predictions?

[Turuk]

Ah, so a rounding system that uses a preset range to check against which will make sure that the player cannot abuse it... Hmm, not a bad take. For WML, you will need someone besides me.

[zookeeper]

i thought of something like that (let's say unit has 6mp):
0-3: 1 strike
4-5: 2 strikes
6: 3 strikes

could this already be done in wml? maybe using the attack event, store unit to get remaining move points, adapt strikes, unstore unit, reset in attack_end... what about (un)condsider attack, would this allow to display correct attack predictions?

Just use a bunch of [attacks] specials, each one active when the unit has a certain amount of MP left.

[Velensk]

Err... When you move next to an enemy you automaticaly lose all your remaining movement.

[DEATH_is_undead]

Err... When you move next to an enemy you automaticaly lose all your remaining movement.

Unless Skirmish. Add skirmish to the ability, then make the attacks and such.

[TheMastermind]

talking about movment and attack relasionship:

what about charge attacks?
a mounted unit that moved a lot (maybe in a straghit line) can have one powerful attack.

but to me it looks lie a preatty complicated feature reletive to the other features in the game.

[Turuk]

talking about movment and attack relasionship:

what about charge attacks?
a mounted unit that moved a lot (maybe in a straghit line) can have one powerful attack.

but to me it looks lie a preatty complicated feature reletive to the other features in the game.

With the exception of your "maybe a straight line" part, there is already a functioning charge attack in the game. You might want to look at all of the abilities first.

[Max]

i doubt that it would be possible to get the necessary information about how a unit approached it's target. even if you could get the startpoint that would mean you have to do lots of calculation.

[cool evil]

It could certainly be useful but that unit has to be nerfed down in some way to compensate for it's versatility. I propose mp be called something else first, such as EP for energy points to avoid confusion. Players can order that unit to attack using a certain amount of EP, but with a minimium of such as 2 or 3 depending on the attack used. When doubling the minimal amount of EP used, that unit gets twice as many strikes; and when adding a single EP point to be used, that would increase the amount of damage done per hit relative to the base damage. The latter would be quite easy to do as damage modifiers could easily bump up an attack's damage by 30 or 50 percent if desired.

This has been done in numerous turn-based strategy games, particularly those that require movements of units on the fly. Perhaps it could be implemented in user DLCs but certainly not mainline as it is quite different to the fundamentals of wesnoth combat.

[Turuk]

It could certainly be useful but that unit has to be nerfed down in some way to compensate for it's versatility. I propose mp be called something else first, such as EP for energy points to avoid confusion. Players can order that unit to attack using a certain amount of EP, but with a minimium of such as 2 or 3 depending on the attack used. When doubling the minimal amount of EP used, that unit gets twice as many strikes; and when adding a single EP point to be used, that would increase the amount of damage done per hit relative to the base damage. The latter would be quite easy to do as damage modifiers could easily bump up an attack's damage by 30 or 50 percent if desired.

This has been done in numerous turn-based strategy games, particularly those that require movements of units on the fly. Perhaps it could be implemented in user DLCs but certainly not mainline as it is quite different to the fundamentals of wesnoth combat.

That may be more intuitive, but as you pointed out, it would mess with the fundamental of Wesnoth and would be a bit of work even for an add-on.

The best bet is the solution already proposed by zookeeper.

[Simons Mith]

I suppose for balance purposes you'd treat it a bit like the Swarm special - that is, it's a disadvantage. Call it 'flurry of blows' or something, and balance the unit on the assumption that it's usually going to get all of its attacks. That way you'e erring on the side of caution. Actually, Slow is going to hurt this unit twice over, isn't it? Ow.

[Ken_Oh]

I just had a thought. Instead of how many moves the unit makes, this special should be based on how far the unit moves (the distance from where it starts its turn to where it make its attacks). This makes more sense because if the idea is that it accelerates on each hex, it wouldn't then make sense if the unit travels through 2 swamp hexes and does the same amount of damage as if it travels through 6 flat hexes.

This would also solve the problem of players moving back and forth over 2 hexes to gain the bonus; it would also remove the need for the unit to have skirmisher.

[Max]

I just had a thought. Instead of how many moves the unit makes, this special should be based on how far the unit moves (the distance from where it starts its turn to where it make its attacks). This makes more sense because if the idea is that it accelerates...

wrong thread, this has been discussed in the one where this was split from: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23871