Can someone explain these battle calculations

[blob]

I have just started playing the A Choice Must Be Made scenario from the Heir of the Throne campain (version 1.4.7) and have encountered the following situation.

Li'sar has 48/48 hitpoints and is attacked by a Level 2 Chocobone, which only has a spear (pierce) attack of the form 9-2. Li'sar has a -20% resistance to pierce. Additionally, the Chocobone has the charge trait.

From what I understand, 9-2 means that the Chocobone has 2 attacks that hit with 9 each. Now that Li'sar has a -20% resistance to the attack type, I would expect a single hit to cost me 9 * 1.2 = 10.8 hitpoints. As the charge trait doubles the attack this should make a single hit cost me 10.8 = 21.6 hitpoints. Even if I round intermediate calculations up, I arrive at at most 22 hitpoints per attack. However, the game displays 27.

Of course both attacks hit, so that the total of 54 cost Li'sar's life and the scenario was over. In my calculations, I arrive at most at 43.2 (44) hitpoints per two attacks. How can this discrepancy be explained? What have I misunderstood?

[Jequ]

Time of Day? (25 % damage boost for chaotic units (f ex undead) at night time)

[zookeeper]

Chocobones are chaotic, so it's probably night and they're getting that +25% damage.

[blob]

Simple beginner's mistake! Day/night cycles are actually the one thing that I currently don't take into account at all when playing the game.

So, of course it was night in this particular turn, and 9 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 2 = 27 makes perfectly sense now. I should really pay more attention to the time of the day when facing enemies. Sorry for bothering.

[Flamma]

If you play so mathematically, won't you prefer to see the "Damage calculations" dialog before attacking? All the factors that apply are detailed, and also probabilities. Computer does all the calcs for you (maybe you prefer to do it by yourself as hobby). Only FYI.

[JW]

If you play so mathematically, won't you prefer to see the "Damage calculations" dialog before attacking? All the factors that apply are detailed, and also probabilities. Computer does all the calcs for you (maybe you prefer to do it by yourself as hobby). Only FYI.

Well, considering the Chocobone was charging him, I'm guessing that was not an option...

[grrr]

If you play so mathematically, won't you prefer to see the "Damage calculations" dialog before attacking? All the factors that apply are detailed, and also probabilities. Computer does all the calcs for you (maybe you prefer to do it by yourself as hobby). Only FYI.

Well, considering the Chocobone was charging him, I'm guessing that was not an option...

Which brings up a neat idea to improve the user interface: Allow to simulate attacks from units of others sides during your turn. It should be easy to implement (TM), but since Wesnoth's unit side control code is a complete mess I am not so sure.

[Turuk]

Which brings up a neat idea to improve the user interface: Allow to simulate attacks from units of others sides during your turn. It should be easy to implement (TM), but since Wesnoth's unit side control code is a complete mess I am not so sure.

Hmm, but the calculations that the game gives you would be based on two things. Either before you attack the enemy, which would mean that Unit A is at full or x amount of health, or after you have attacked the enemy, which would have Unit A is at (full health-health lost from attack) or (x amount - health lost from attack). The latter would be more of interest to the player, but would occur at a time when you cannot move the unit away anyways.

Now it could be said that the player knew the damage calculations for the enemy's turn, they could determine whether they should have another unit attack the same enemy unit that Unit A attacked... but you already know the potential of how much damage the enemy could do back to the unit it attacked based on how much it might have damaged you when you attacked it.

[Cernunnos]

Hi,

While there was something about the chocobone, it doesn't appear anymore in the unit list (and i've seen some topics about "where can i find all the units? etc..."
It was in default before, iirc, it' not in now, no more in httt...

For the battle calculations, would be difficult too about time of day, calculations should be made with current time of day for P1 about P2 units and time of day + 1 for P2 about P1 units etc...
[edit: and maybe not of much use... (just my opinion) ]
[edit 2: and your last paragraph was really clear Turuk ]

[Simons Mith]

Being able to simulate the other side's attack would be very useful. It would allow you to find out how much your troll warrior (no ranged attack) was likely to take from an enemy bowman. I've always found it a UI annoyance that you can only find out how much your opponent is going to do to you if you have a matching attack of your own to do the comparison for.

[hawkn]

i thought you could simulate their attacks?

[Wintermute]

Being able to simulate the other side's attack would be very useful. It would allow you to find out how much your troll warrior (no ranged attack) was likely to take from an enemy bowman. I've always found it a UI annoyance that you can only find out how much your opponent is going to do to you if you have a matching attack of your own to do the comparison for.

Or, you could - of course - do the math. figuring out things like base damage is easy, as are many of the common outcomes (DA hitting twice, etc.). One major reason why there is no feature for using the attack statistics other than for attacking is that it would likely slow down multiplayer games considerably to have the active player clicking around looking at various combat details. The ability to do that "on the fly" with some intuition is part of the skill in playing the game, some people would argue. That said, I bet that a web-based battle simulater that a user could quickly plug numbers and abilities into would get a lot of use.

[Turuk]

That said, I bet that a web-based battle simulater that a user could quickly plug numbers and abilities into would get a lot of use.

Didn't/Doesn't one of these exist already? I know I have seen it somewhere before....

[TheMasterOfBattle]

Actually, there is one that I know of. It isn't the most intuitive one, but it does work if you learn how it works.

This the one you were talking about Turuk?

http://wesnoth.info/fight_simulator

[Simons Mith]

Or, you could - of course - do the math.

Hey, I'm far too lazy to factor in damage resistances and that sort of stuff. Number of hits expected is as far my mental calculations are likely to go. For precise calculations I'd prefer to have the computer to do the maths for me, particularly as it has all the needed data already programmed in.