Melons Outlaw Portraits

[Melon]

I'd like to take a stab at doing a few mainline portraits for the outlaws.
You can find the original discussion related to this idea in this thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 8&start=45.
I'm attaching the portrait for the female rogue and the roughs for the all the others I intend to do in the next while.

If you feel that the style or quality is incompatible with Wesnoth standards, please inform me as soon as possible.

[Sangel]

NFWAA - the sexual content of this portrait is likely to be an issue of contention. If you feel the urge to comment on this facet of the portrait, please do so in a constructive manner, avoiding overly forceful language.

Putting aside that topic for now, some quick critiques:

Your style is close to Wesnoth style, but not quite in line yet. I'll leave the serious critiques to the experts (Kitty and Jetryl being the most important voices on artistic style), but one example is her neck; the exaggeration of both length and thinness is considerably outside the Wesnoth norm.

Another quibble is that the leather of her outfit seems shiny and new; I'd suggest a more scruffy, rough look to the leather, rather than clean edges and bright polish.

That said, you clearly have serious artistic skill, and I see great potential in your work for improving Wesnoth's portrait base. I'd suggest having a conversation with Jetryl about the artistic direction he'd like the outlaws to go in, as well as discussing with all the top artists how best to bring your line with the "Kitty" standard. Matching art styles isn't easy, but we've had some artists come extremely close, and I'm confident you could do so as well.

[Mica]

The only thing sexual about this is the pose with the finger to her lips and the expression she gives, if you're also referring to breast size - just consider this, women come in all shapes and sizes. Kitty makes women with varying "sizes," so as long as his varies then it should be okay. And flirty shouldn't be that bad - it's still PG-13.

But I agree about the outfit [the shine] and the lineart.

But great job Melon, this is really wonderful.

[EDIT]
Changed a typo. this -> his

[thespaceinvader]

Looking extremely promising =D The hair looks great (although don't feel bound by the colour choices from the sprite) as does the cloak, and i really like the whimsical pose.

A few points, however: this is a medieval-inspired world. Whilst i personally do not object to superhero-tight leather/spandex (=P), it's a bit beyond the tech base. You should consider looser and baggier clothing. Random pouches also do not make for good costuming, particularly when, as in this case, they look fairly flat - they just look stuck on, particularly the one on the thigh.

I'm not quite sure that the sword and the bump it makes in the cloak actually line up - moving the latter down just a little would fix this issue.

Anatomy-wise, the neck seems a bit too long, and the transition into the shoulders is a little too abrupt - she needs a little more trapezius muscle. Other than that, I can see nothing major wrong with this. Great work.

The rest is more stylistic, and is something that we probably need jetryl's word on. But i suspect that it's still just a touch on the cartoony side (in terms of proportions and facial shapes and features). Also, to match the kitty-type style, you'll need to colour the lines to match the flat they surround (particularly noticeable on the hair and cloak). Don't take this the wrong way - I'd LOVE to see some more portraits in the game, particularly of this quality. But it would be my suspicion that the stylistic issues might hold you back.

It can be tough having to match an existing style - I found tryign to do Lutes-styled portraits an absolute nightmare, personally. And I'm having similar troubles living up to Kitty's work, too... Keep at it =D

[Boucman]

the problem with the breast is not the shape and/or size...

the problem is that the costuming is too "fit"

it seems she painted her naked body brown, not that she is wearing something... for instance, no close I know would separate the breast the way you have...

[woodmouse]

I think the face isn't female-ish. I mean, otherwise I love it!

[Velensk]

It looks like she is trying to conceal the knife, and failing. I can't think of any other reason why she'd be holding around behind her back like that.

[zookeeper]

It looks like she is trying to conceal the knife, and failing. I can't think of any other reason why she'd be holding around behind her back like that.

Clearly she's trying to conceal it from someone other than the viewer.

[mameluke]

It looks like she is trying to conceal the knife, and failing.

It seems to me that this is s sword, which is not so easy to hide.
If it should be a knife it must be much smaller imho.

A knife would make more sense for backstabbing... it could be a big one. But this one is definitely a sword with this size.

[Sgt. Groovy]

As far as technique goes, you have what it takes, the problems are mostly stylistic. Mainly, the present portrait style in Wesnoth is relatively realistic, in anatomy, materials and clothing/item design, while your style is pretty cartoony. To break it down:

• More realistic body proportions -- no exaggeration in head/eye size or neck length.
• As stated, the style of clothing should be closer to something medieval, for example, the pouches look very modern at the moment. Research is the magic word.
• The behaviour of the materials should also be more realistic. Even a very tight fitting clothes wrinkle and fold at the joints, and especially leather is fairly stiff and non-strechy, it doesn't make that glued-on-skin appearance. Again, research is your best friend.

I like it how you have made the pose reflect the character of the unit, I just find it a bit too "cute." I wonder if it would be possible to make it just a bit more gritty and sinister?

[Melon]

Thanks for all the replies, I changed the portrait based on some of the feedback you guys gave me.

It looks like she is trying to conceal the knife, and failing.

It seems to me that this is s sword, which is not so easy to hide.
If it should be a knife it must be much smaller imho.

A knife would make more sense for backstabbing... it could be a big one. But this one is definitely a sword with this size.

If you look at the sprite, the knife that the Rogue uses looks more like a curved short sword.


Here's a redrawing of the portrait, I made it 400*400, since I heard that the next Wesnoth version will support it. It addresses the better half of the issues that where raised.

[thespaceinvader]

You'd be better off working at at least 800x800 - the aliasing on the lines is noticeable at this scale, and is cleaned up somewhat by shrinking. I'll confess, i hadn't realised you were working at final resolution.

[Melon]

You'd be better off working at at least 800x800 - the aliasing on the lines is noticeable at this scale, and is cleaned up somewhat by shrinking. I'll confess, i hadn't realised you were working at final resolution.

I'll go crazy working at 800. The 400 pixel pic took me something close to 7 hours to complete. All the portraits I've done before where done at 205. I know that it's opposite for a lot of artists, but I tend to be better off with miniaturization then large scale drawing.

[thespaceinvader]

o_O just use bigger brushes and zoom in... But if you do want to keep working at that resolution, you need to sort out the jaggies.

You'll also need to do the larger scale portraits against a transparent background.

[YaymeQ]

Hey, wouldn't the part of the cloth that's sticking out due to the sword/knife/thing fall straight down from there rather than conforming to the shape of the knife? Unless, she's artfully sticking the knife into a very odd, very small pocket?