Idea: Let ghosts be able to cross the cave walls.

[qweo]

First of, i would like to apologize for the my bad knowledge of english - it just isn't my first language. I've got an idea about the ghost units line, and before explaining it, also wish to apologize if here alredy been similar ideas - both "cave wall" and "ghost cave wall" search requests gives 1000+ results, so it's near impossible to check them all.

From the cave wall terrain description:

Cave walls are made of solid stone, renowned for its ability to impede even the most determined traveler.

It's true for the walking ones, perhaps for the flyers, but not for (nearly) non-material spirits - just remember the large pool of books where ghosts were able to pass through the walls or even objects.

I know that "cave wall" terrain is designed to be insuperable barrier, but there is some suggestions how to implement the idea (i hope) without harming the balance:

1. The movement cost for the cave wall should be 7 points. It's roleplayish that such kind of action like passing through the solid stone requires spending many energies to perform.

2. Chance to hit for that terrain should be 10% or about, just because the spirit (or any other creature, if any) that dematerialized, passed the stone and materialized then, must be too weak for defend self.

3. Perhaps it's deserved to adjust some negative affects (such as slowing) to the unit that passed through the wall (due to its temporary weakness, as described above) and to deny this unit to attack during the current turn. This may be reasonable, but it's complicating both implementation and gameplay, plus the game is not about passing through the walls so there is few other ideas how to please Balance the Evil

4. The good way out of the problems with the balance is to create new level 2 unit for the ghosts line, with less hit points (say, 20) and weaker attacks (e. g. 5-3 melee and 3-3 ranged with cold damage type) and no L3 advancement, but with one more movement point and ability to pass through the walls. And like the previous suggestion, this one has a disadvantage - it's needed to inject new unit into mainline tree.

5. My last suggestion is to give this ability only to Nightgaunts and Spectres, so the change most likely will not affect multiplayer, and in the single player scenarios where cave walls is important barrier (The Sceptre of Fire in the Heir to the Throne or A Haunting in Winter in the Descent into Darkness for example) player (well, again most likely) will not get the Spectre or the Nightgaunt under his command (in HTtT he will not get even ghost ).

I think that if combine first, second and fifth suggestion, balance will not suffer, and ghosts will get one more interesting (i hope) and unique ability.

Best regards, ...

[Clonkinator]

That would be too overpowered; it would start a new flamewar about terrains that some units may pass through while others may not (see the "Let's make Heavy Infantry useful!"-thread...). Also, when there isn't any terrain left that ghosts can't pass through, how will you keep them from getting to certain spots? Void? That would be possible, but would require major redisigning of some scenarios (and would sometimes look really ugly). I vote against this idea...

[turin]

There needs to be some terrain that scenario designers can assume no units can pass. Right now, that terrain is Cave Wall/Impassable Mountain. I don't see any reason to change that...

[thespaceinvader]

This would cause an absolute nightmare with a few scenarios, particularly in Descent into Darkness, when there are numerous scenarios which could be won MUCH more easily if ghost could shoot through cave wall.

[Unnheulu]

Unless it was a special kind of like that one skeletons get, and then a very similar unit can be made for the campaign without the special?

[cool evil]

No matter how hard you try to balance it, it will always be unfair.

I can simply get my ghosts to get in a cave area, and if my opponent doesn't have ghosts then i can just stay there forever and not having anyone reaching me. This is especially useful if you're leader is a ghost and you can just safeguard him using the cave wall.

[TruePurple]

Maybe though there could be walls or other terrain that are special for this that ghosts can move through like you describe but other units can't. Then it would be only used in campaigns and other circumstances where its been specifically planned for. Of course I don't know how easy it is to add a new terrain type. Maybe only special ghosts too.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I think "KISS" might be the appropriate term here...

[Noy]

Guys, its unbalancing and has serious implementation problems as some have pointed out. Its not going to happen.

I was musing about whether to lock or soft lock this thread, but given that this was mainly intended to discuss this for default, so I'm going to lock it. there are plenty of ideas for someone who wants to implement it for their UMC. It doesn't even need to use WML.