undead vs undead solution

Post by **F8 Binds...** » February 23rd, 2007, 3:45 am

I have an idea, since as we all know, undead vs undead is the most boring match-up in wesnoth. Well, I have an idea for changing this. It does not involve changing resistances, adding new specials, or adding new units. It's adding an attack to the adept. It would be some sort of impact ranged (magic is debatable) that is weaker than it's 10-2 cold magical. I'm thinking of a 6-2 or 7-2 impact weapon, (ranged) by the name of "shockwave". It's some type of invisible wave that shatters/breaks objects apart. So, incase you are wondering, "Will it affect match-ups other than undead vs undead?" no, it won't effect them. The cold attack does 6-8 damage more, and there is no single unit other than undead that has a greater cold resistance than impact resistance. Even if this were so, it wouldn't be enough to make the 2nd ranged attack stronger.

Reason to make the ranged impact attack:

It cures the absolute boredom of undead vs undead, by giving it further strategy. Now adepts have the ability to punish skeletons, but since the player will be recruiting adepts, the other units of the undead come into play; now the ghoul has a purpose- to poison adepts that kill your skeletons. Skeletons have a new purpose of not only killing WC's and beating slowly every other unit there is, but killing adepts. Now WC's can create new zombies, via killing these adepts. A new strategy follows this, in which people may actually find this matchup more interesting and fun. (and so that people don't leave a game when they find out that both players are undead, as this is frustrating.)

If you are wondering if this will make the unit overpowered, it won't. A dark adept with a 7-2 impact attack will do 12 damage in day, 16 at dawn/dusk, and 20 damage at night. Reduce this to 6-2, and it will do 10 damage at day, 14 damage at dawn/dusk, and 18 damage at night. Any comments, complaints, threats, taunts, and concerns will be appreciated greatly.

(note that the attacks are against skeletons.)

Glowing Fish · Post by **Glowing Fish** » February 23rd, 2007, 4:16 am

That is one of the better ideas I have heard.

Although not as fun as my FLAMING BERSERKER VAMPIRE BAT

Glowing Fish · Post by **Glowing Fish** » February 23rd, 2007, 4:16 am

Oh, serious comment: would the other units in the line keep the attack? Would it get stronger?

whitewater · Post by **whitewater** » February 23rd, 2007, 5:50 am

There are some units with greater cold resistance than impact...(all mermen, gryphon, elusivefoots, others)most have only a 20% difference so if cold attack was stronger there'd be minimal if any change. However Elvish sylph line might be affected, and some other units might be slightly affected a little but not too much....

Sombra · Post by **Sombra** » February 23rd, 2007, 7:27 am

I like the idea. I thinkit fitting that an adept should be able to fight against its own creations.

Duffchong · Post by **Duffchong** » February 23rd, 2007, 4:40 pm

As for adepts against elusive foots- this change would not affect strategy too much because the high chance to hit of magic would almost always make cold wave the attack of choice. Elusive foots however would need to be more careful about being on poor terrain while near adepts.

Post by **Noyga** » February 23rd, 2007, 8:21 pm

AFAIK the MP dev had other plans to speed up the undead vs undead matchup, i don't know exactly which solution they did choose (it might be some changes on the ghost).

Post by **F8 Binds...** » February 23rd, 2007, 9:58 pm

Noyga wrote:AFAIK the MP dev had other plans to speed up the undead vs undead matchup, i don't know exactly which solution they did choose (it might be some changes on the ghost).

does it work as well as my way? well, when you find out, can you post what that was?

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » February 23rd, 2007, 10:16 pm

Psst, why not make it non-magical?

Post by **F8 Binds...** » February 23rd, 2007, 10:24 pm

That's debatable. I'd like it to magical, however.

UngeheuerLich · Post by **UngeheuerLich** » February 24th, 2007, 4:36 pm

actually undead vs undead is not that bad...

Post by **F8 Binds...** » February 24th, 2007, 4:52 pm

UngeheuerLich wrote:actually undead vs undead is not that bad...

not another higher game...

Post by **Velensk** » February 24th, 2007, 11:38 pm

........Acualy if I remember right (from my lurking days) higher gamer accualy realised that one, UngeheuerLich although I have disagreed with most of his posts seems to have more sence in most areas.

I agree that undead vs undead matches are very boring due to the inability of undead to kill each other. Thier primary damage types are cold and blade, and pretty much all of them are resistant to such. The olny undead that seems to be able to hurt skelotons effectivly (walking corpses) gets minced by practicaly anything.

UngeheuerLich · Post by **UngeheuerLich** » February 25th, 2007, 11:38 am

I agree, that it can be accelerated a bit...

part of the problem is, that unit mixing vs undead is tricky, because you only have three effective units: skellis and WCs, and maybe a bat or a ghost as scout.

if you use them correct, WCs counter skellis and skellis couter WCs...

actually all mirror matches tend to concentrate on limited choice of units, but in the undead case, its very obviously...

if you have a good idea for a change, then go for it!

Post by **Noyga** » February 25th, 2007, 8:45 pm

Some large balancing changes have been made (by the MP dev team, not by me), you should be able to test them soon with 1.3.1.