Longbowman Portrait

KnightOfLodis · Post by **KnightOfLodis** » February 21st, 2007, 5:42 am

Um, this is my first submission here and I'm not too sure how to go about doing this. I want to contribute something to the game, but I'm not too good at sprite art and I don't have a tablet or a scanner to transfer any of my artwork to the computer.

I'd like to recieve some constructive critiscm please, and any tips on where to go from here are welcome. I know I'm not a very good artist, so comments on how to improve are greatly appreciated.

commanderkeen · Post by **commanderkeen** » February 21st, 2007, 5:59 am

Looks good for something done on the computer. If you don't have a scanner it can be very hard to make good portraits. Personally I think his arms are a bit big and some of the rest isn't in proportion, but It is pretty decent for a first try. Reminds me of samurai for some reason. Believe me, when I tried making portraits they looked awful, and they still do. Unfortunately, there is already a portrait for the Longbowman. I suggest you find a unit without a portrait to draw, as It is unlikely any present mainline portraits will be replaced.

If you want to contribute something to the game, I'd suggest you try making maps and campaigns, as new content is always a plus. When I joined Wesnoth I thought I could become an artist too. But it is very difficult to become as skilled as the present artists, if not near impossible.

I'm sorry that my post lacks much in the way of constructive critiscm, but I'm not a good artist either so I can't really help. Although I would say that you can make good sprites on a computer, but you do need a scanner to make good portraits. Although you could use a digital camera

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » February 21st, 2007, 8:03 am

commanderkeen wrote:Although I would say that you can make good sprites on a computer, but you do need a scanner to make good portraits.

This is wrong, I have never used a scanner or camera in my entire life to make my digital art and it has turned out well. a sketch of some kind is required though, but it can be done on the computer too if you don't have a scanner/camera, if you use a program that allows for layers (photoshop, GIMP, etc) then you can paint on the layer above it if you want, although I just generally paint over it.

On the art, there are three things you should focus on right now, colouring within the lines, cleaning up your lines so they aren't obviously made up of two or three smaller lines, and use the brush tool instead of the pencil tool.

Post by **Jetrel** » February 21st, 2007, 9:08 am

Ranger M wrote:
commanderkeen wrote:Although I would say that you can make good sprites on a computer, but you do need a scanner to make good portraits.
This is wrong, I have never used a scanner or camera in my entire life to make my digital art and it has turned out well. a sketch of some kind is required though, but it can be done on the computer too if you don't have a scanner/camera, if you use a program that allows for layers (photoshop, GIMP, etc) then you can paint on the layer above it if you want, although I just generally paint over it.

Rather than using ranger M as an example of a "great artist who does things start-to-finish on a computer", why don't we use the following and remove all doubt:
http://www.goodbrush.com/

You don't need a scanner to do good portraits or digital painting. It is easier for those already familiar with pencil drawing to do the line art on paper, and color it on the computer, but that is by no means "necessary". There are plenty of artists who always, and often (respectively) do pure-digital workflows:
http://www.alpha-shade.com/
http://www.applegeeks.com/

(Though it should be said, doing it with neither a scanner nor a tablet, e.g. with only the mouse, is a recipe for difficulties).

Ranger M wrote:On the art, there are three things you should focus on right now, colouring within the lines, cleaning up your lines so they aren't obviously made up of two or three smaller lines, and use the brush tool instead of the pencil tool.

Spot-on critiques.

Right now your lines are made by drawing a whole bunch of lines that approximate the "real line". That's a good way to sketch, but you should use those to take the next step; which is to replace all of those with the "single, smooth line" that they suggest.

Thrawn (whom I hope is reading this, hint, hint

) used to have a bit of this problem, and still has a smidge of it, though he's on a clear track to overcome that (I had a semi-similar problem, though different because my sketch style was different). It's worth being able to not do that, because that kind of sketchiness isn't favored in commercial, or even amateur works.

Also, uh ... we already have a longbowman portrait. You can call this a "master bowman" portrait if you like - we don't have one of those. Unfortunately, at this current level of work, this won't be getting into the game - but you've definitely got the spark, per se. Keep on practicing, and believe in yourself. If you get access to a scanner, I'd love to see artwork that better reflects your skills.

Post by **Thrawn** » February 21st, 2007, 10:57 am

Jetryl wrote: Thrawn (whom I hope is reading this, hint, hint ) used to have a bit of this problem, and still has a smidge of it, though he's on a clear track to overcome that (I had a semi-similar problem, though different because my sketch style was different). It's worth being able to not do that, because that kind of sketchiness isn't favored in commercial, or even amateur works.

I read and listen: I just don't post my crappy art anymore--I'm waiting til I improve.

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » February 21st, 2007, 1:22 pm

Jetryl wrote:Rather than using ranger M as an example of a "great artist who does things start-to-finish on a computer", why don't we use the following and remove all doubt:
http://www.goodbrush.com/

Did I call myself great? (did it seem that way?) I wouldn't call myself great, I'd have to finish the learning curve (or get damn near the end) to even have a change of being great, and seeing as my stuff still gets 10 times better from one finished piece to the next (which I'll finished eventually, I started like a month ago, I'll have to get faster too), I'm good at most.

Oh, and another art comment, use smaller brushes where necceasry to get the right shaped shading (eg, his left helmet flap on the bright bit), only useing big brushes will limit you severly.

KnightOfLodis · Post by **KnightOfLodis** » February 22nd, 2007, 12:32 am

Well, I've read your comments, and really, thanks to all of you. I didn't know there was a Longbowman portrait already, so I decided to take up your offers to try and make a Master Bowman.

Any comments or suggestions?

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » February 22nd, 2007, 12:38 am

The helmet ought to fit his head more closely, right now it looks as if it would fall off at the slightest hit. Some time spent studying body proportions would be beneficial to you as well, I would say, In particular the arms and shoulders seem quite large, compared to the head and torso.

Post by **Viliam** » February 22nd, 2007, 7:43 pm

Compared with the first one, the second picture is like 20 times nicer. Mostly because the lines and areas are drawn clearly. But I guess you really did not need advice to do this. There are probably other improvements, but I do not feel qualified to judge them.

Post by **Viliam** » February 22nd, 2007, 8:00 pm

Ah, a crazy idea...

I like reading webcomics. Would you like to make one?

Seems like you are drawing rather quickly, so if you would like to give it some (much) of your time...

I imagine a webcomic about Wesnoth. Something long, at least 50 pages total. Either something new, or for example just a graphical remake of HTTT or some other campaign. The story is ready, there is a lot of graphics to be inspired by (unit, maps). You can follow it verbatim, or do some creative changes - for example giving some personality to regular units. There are some pages which would host it for free. After it is completed, it would be nice to put it together as a PDF book, and put to download on SourceForge.

KnightOfLodis · Post by **KnightOfLodis** » February 22nd, 2007, 8:42 pm

Wow, I'm honoured that you would pick me. Personally, I'd enjoy taking part in this project. There are a few things I'd like to know before I sign up, however. For one, maybe the length of the story and the expected number of pages.

Maybe you could PM me with the details?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read that part about the number of pages. I would like to know how far you are along on this idea, however. Also, just to warn you I'm not a very good Wesnoth player and so I'm not very far along in the story, so I know next to none about the characters and everything.

Post by **Jetrel** » February 23rd, 2007, 2:42 am

Ranger M wrote:
Jetryl wrote:Rather than using ranger M as an example of a "great artist who does things start-to-finish on a computer", why don't we use the following and remove all doubt:
http://www.goodbrush.com/
Did I call myself great? (did it seem that way?) I wouldn't call myself great...

My bad wording. You were in no way sounding pompous, I'm sorry I accidentally inferred that.

But you are decent enough to make UMC art (as is thrawn), which was a considerable growth for you (as it was for him). So, one could use "Ranger M" as an example of an "artist who learned to produce stuff solely on the computer, and is now able to do decent work".

Mullins didn't learn on a computer, he learned doing traditional mediums (oil etc). However, I suspect that his unnerving mastery over light and color, which may be his greatest strength, was helped to develop through a mix of gouache and digital matte painting; from painting onto an existing photograph and being forced to match the lighting in the photograph exactly.

Flametrooper · Post by **Flametrooper** » February 23rd, 2007, 5:31 am

It may be worth pointing out that a longbowman does not really wear pink, that's TC. Try changing it to red, or royal purple.
Starting to look good though.

User:Grzywacz Wiki Site · Post by **grzywacz** » February 23rd, 2007, 10:51 am

Wasn't pekka working on this, too?

Post by **zookeeper** » February 23rd, 2007, 11:22 am

Of course you can work on anything you like, but I'd like to point out that the portraits that most need doing are the ones for unit lines that don't have any. We have a longbowman portrait, which can perfectly well be used for the master bowman, whereas we don't have any portraits for a lot of whole unit lines. Having portraits for as many unit types as possible is better than having portraits for fewer of them and in this case, we already have an ok portrait for the master bowman, but none for many.

Just in case you don't for some reason only want to do a master bowman portrait, but portraits in general. If you want to just do the master bowman, then great, go ahead.