The Dark Hordes (back from the dead!)
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pjr
The Dark Hordes (back from the dead!)
Introduction
The Dark Hordes (otherwise known as "The Undead Campaign") was begun by Circon long before Wesnoth 1.0 was released, but it has never been finished and has long lacked a regular maintainer, so it was removed from the list of mainline campaigns after version 1.1.1. There's no version available for the current development release of Wesnoth.
I used to enjoy playing this campaign, so after consulting Bruno, who was the last person to work on it, I've decided to see if my WML skills are good enough for me to take over as maintainer. In accordance with the "release early and often" principle, I've uploaded a version of the campaign to the development server which hardly differs from the last mainline version at all, except where the WML was obsolete or references to mainline files were broken. See changelog.txt in the campaign for details of my tweaking so far.
Notes
I'm almost a complete beginner at WML, so if something *looks* like a stupid mistake, that's probably exactly what it is.
The new "Dark Hordes" isn't meant to be compatible with Wesnoth 1.0, mostly because Wesnoth 1.2 will be released long before I've finished. Anybody who still has Wesnoth 1.0 should probably continue using the old mainline version.
At this stage, I'm looking for bug reports rather than plot ideas, but any suggestions are welcome. You can PM me or post to this thread.
Translations for the previous version are available at Wescamp. I haven't changed any translatable strings yet, so the translations should still work after a little tweaking to match changed line numbers. However, there probably isn't much point in making compatibility changes to the translations at this stage, since much of the dialogue will probably change in subsequent releases.
The old version of the campaign was notoriously unbalanced, but I'm intending to make too many future changes for extensive re-balancing to be useful at this stage. I haven't done any thorough play-testing, but after the first two scenarios on Easy I had several advanced units and plenty of gold (and I'm not a skilful player!), so I'm hopeful that the campaign will be playable, at least on Easy, even if it's currently not as much fun as it might be.
Plans (subject to change)
When finished, TDH will be two short campaigns, not one long one. Part Two will be a sequel to Part One only in its storyline: recallable units and advancements to the central character won't be carried over.
Each part will contain six scenarios and no more. As a result, at least two of the existing battles in Part One will probably either be moved to Part Two or removed.
Dialogue and introductory story screens will be kept to the minimum required in order for the scenario situations to make sense, but there will be a few special encounters and Easter-egg events for people like me who enjoy such things.
Fancy WML tricks will be added as I learn or steal them.
Credits
This is Circon's campaign, and I hope that my finished product won't depart too much from his original ideas.
Bruno has provided many interesting ideas, most of which I'll probably use.
Unit portraits are by Pickslide.
The Dark Hordes (otherwise known as "The Undead Campaign") was begun by Circon long before Wesnoth 1.0 was released, but it has never been finished and has long lacked a regular maintainer, so it was removed from the list of mainline campaigns after version 1.1.1. There's no version available for the current development release of Wesnoth.
I used to enjoy playing this campaign, so after consulting Bruno, who was the last person to work on it, I've decided to see if my WML skills are good enough for me to take over as maintainer. In accordance with the "release early and often" principle, I've uploaded a version of the campaign to the development server which hardly differs from the last mainline version at all, except where the WML was obsolete or references to mainline files were broken. See changelog.txt in the campaign for details of my tweaking so far.
Notes
I'm almost a complete beginner at WML, so if something *looks* like a stupid mistake, that's probably exactly what it is.
The new "Dark Hordes" isn't meant to be compatible with Wesnoth 1.0, mostly because Wesnoth 1.2 will be released long before I've finished. Anybody who still has Wesnoth 1.0 should probably continue using the old mainline version.
At this stage, I'm looking for bug reports rather than plot ideas, but any suggestions are welcome. You can PM me or post to this thread.
Translations for the previous version are available at Wescamp. I haven't changed any translatable strings yet, so the translations should still work after a little tweaking to match changed line numbers. However, there probably isn't much point in making compatibility changes to the translations at this stage, since much of the dialogue will probably change in subsequent releases.
The old version of the campaign was notoriously unbalanced, but I'm intending to make too many future changes for extensive re-balancing to be useful at this stage. I haven't done any thorough play-testing, but after the first two scenarios on Easy I had several advanced units and plenty of gold (and I'm not a skilful player!), so I'm hopeful that the campaign will be playable, at least on Easy, even if it's currently not as much fun as it might be.
Plans (subject to change)
When finished, TDH will be two short campaigns, not one long one. Part Two will be a sequel to Part One only in its storyline: recallable units and advancements to the central character won't be carried over.
Each part will contain six scenarios and no more. As a result, at least two of the existing battles in Part One will probably either be moved to Part Two or removed.
Dialogue and introductory story screens will be kept to the minimum required in order for the scenario situations to make sense, but there will be a few special encounters and Easter-egg events for people like me who enjoy such things.
Fancy WML tricks will be added as I learn or steal them.
Credits
This is Circon's campaign, and I hope that my finished product won't depart too much from his original ideas.
Bruno has provided many interesting ideas, most of which I'll probably use.
Unit portraits are by Pickslide.
I have one suggestion, and it may be somewhat difficult to do well. But I think it is absolutely necessary to have in the campaign -
- Do not have Gwiti's unit advance to a Lich. He should not be able to just advance into a Lich, it has to be a storyline event. So, make Gwiti's starting unit's level 3 be human, not undead, and then in a certain scenario store Gwiti and change his unit type to some Uber-Lich-Lord unit.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
I absolutely agree with this. Advancing to a Lich shouldn't be a mundane event you get when you beat a troll with your staff. It should definitely have some storyline to it and a dedicated scenario. When he does die and turns into an undead (lich), you could even throw in a psychedelic mini-scenario in the land of the dead or something like that, it could be neat.turin wrote:Do not have Gwiti's unit advance to a Lich. He should not be able to just advance into a Lich, it has to be a storyline event. So, make Gwiti's starting unit's level 3 be human, not undead, and then in a certain scenario store Gwiti and change his unit type to some Uber-Lich-Lord unit.
Plotwise, it would probably be best to break the campaign in half once he gets Crelanu's book, and have him turn undead once he has it (using the information inside of it).
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pjr
I'm thinking of making advancements for Gwiti depend on events. Give him 500 points XP needed at each stage, but allow the advancement if he does something exceptionally evil. I already have at least a vague idea of how to do this in WML.turin wrote:I have one suggestion, and it may be somewhat difficult to do well. But I think it is absolutely necessary to have in the campaign -
- Do not have Gwiti's unit advance to a Lich. He should not be able to just advance into a Lich, it has to be a storyline event. So, make Gwiti's starting unit's level 3 be human, not undead, and then in a certain scenario store Gwiti and change his unit type to some Uber-Lich-Lord unit.
I'm thinking of "Part One: Crelanu's Book" and "Part Two: The Skull of Agarash" (or vice versa). It ought to be quite easy to separate the two strands of the plot and redistribute the existing scenarios.Plotwise, it would probably be best to break the campaign in half once he gets Crelanu's book, and have him turn undead once he has it (using the information inside of it).
Certainly, the change from human necromancer to undead lich should not be an ordinary advancement.
I'll be working on it. Meanwhile, my first objective is a nostalgic one: to revive interest in the second campaign ever written for Wesnoth.
Yeah!! Gwiti comes back! I want him to give me an autograph. 
I really liked it, but it unfortunately was broken. Especially I liked the AFAIK first building sceario ever.
But if you keep it on: The last two scenarios are way too easy. Especially this with the humans and the paladin.
I really liked it, but it unfortunately was broken. Especially I liked the AFAIK first building sceario ever.
But if you keep it on: The last two scenarios are way too easy. Especially this with the humans and the paladin.
First read, then think. Read again, think again. And then post!
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pjr
The autograph will be written in your own blood. :-)toms wrote:Yeah!! Gwiti comes back! I want him to give me an autograph. :P
Broken in the old version or in the new version?I really liked it, but it unfortunately was broken. Especially I liked the AFAIK first building sceario ever.
They won't be the last two scenarios, and I'm not ready for rebalancing yet anyway.But if you keep it on: The last two scenarios are way too easy. Especially this with the humans and the paladin. :twisted: :twisted:
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pjr
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pjr
Version 0.2.0 of TDH Part One is now belatedly ready for testing, and contains two revised scenarios.
Major changes
* The story and dialogue of scenarios #1 and #2 have been extensively rewritten. In #1 I'm much indebted to plot ideas first suggested by Bruno. At the end of #2 the "dark spirit" who used to appear unexpectedly in scenario #3 has now been integrated into the plot. There are also some extra "moveto" events, but no very nasty surprises for the player, I hope.
* The campaign currently ends after the second scenario, pending revision of the rest of the campaign. Some of my recent changes would break later scenarios from the older version; and anyway, the old scenario #3 is going to be part of the plot of TDH Part 2, not Part 1, so there's no point in linking to it.
* I've tried to make a start on balancing the first two scenarios. They should both be quite easy on Easy. On Hard, I suspect that #1 may be too easy and #2 too hard, but I've succeeded in completing #2 on Hard without much save-reloading.
Notes
* All the new WML has been stolen from mainline campaigns. For instance, temporarily I've used the "Delfador lightning" effect from HttT not once but twice; I'll try to create an individual variation on it at a later stage.
* I'd be pleased to have some feedback on the dialogue, balance and other details of these two scenarios. Be as critical as you like.
* If I'm not unexpectedly busy, version 0.3.0 will be ready in a week or two, and will include the next two revised scenarios. Meanwhile, I'll do 0.2.x versions if there are bugs reported. Please report any problems to me by PM or posting in this thread.
Edit: 0.2.0 is now on the campaign server, so I've deleted the attachment.
Major changes
* The story and dialogue of scenarios #1 and #2 have been extensively rewritten. In #1 I'm much indebted to plot ideas first suggested by Bruno. At the end of #2 the "dark spirit" who used to appear unexpectedly in scenario #3 has now been integrated into the plot. There are also some extra "moveto" events, but no very nasty surprises for the player, I hope.
* The campaign currently ends after the second scenario, pending revision of the rest of the campaign. Some of my recent changes would break later scenarios from the older version; and anyway, the old scenario #3 is going to be part of the plot of TDH Part 2, not Part 1, so there's no point in linking to it.
* I've tried to make a start on balancing the first two scenarios. They should both be quite easy on Easy. On Hard, I suspect that #1 may be too easy and #2 too hard, but I've succeeded in completing #2 on Hard without much save-reloading.
Notes
* All the new WML has been stolen from mainline campaigns. For instance, temporarily I've used the "Delfador lightning" effect from HttT not once but twice; I'll try to create an individual variation on it at a later stage.
* I'd be pleased to have some feedback on the dialogue, balance and other details of these two scenarios. Be as critical as you like.
* If I'm not unexpectedly busy, version 0.3.0 will be ready in a week or two, and will include the next two revised scenarios. Meanwhile, I'll do 0.2.x versions if there are bugs reported. Please report any problems to me by PM or posting in this thread.
Edit: 0.2.0 is now on the campaign server, so I've deleted the attachment.
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pjr
Interim 0.2.1 release
Version 0.2.1 is now on the development server. It includes a couple of minor bug-fixes and balancing changes, and also one or two experimental novelties, but still ends after scenario #2. Details are in the changelog.txt file.
Version 0.3 (with playable scenarios after #2) is postponed, probably until after Wesnoth 1.2 is released, since I'm currently concentrating on bug-hunting in the game itself.
Version 0.3 (with playable scenarios after #2) is postponed, probably until after Wesnoth 1.2 is released, since I'm currently concentrating on bug-hunting in the game itself.
Nearly all monsters are very passive. The first ogre can be killed just by a ghost, Gwiti, and one or two shooters. Then go to the second ogr´s castle as quickly as you can, with a ghost. Attack him with ranged all the time, and try to stay in a village or better in his castle. You should be able to advance some units, and with two wraiths the troll is moreorless an easy job.
Recruitment suggested: 2 of each kind
Recruitment suggested: 2 of each kind
First read, then think. Read again, think again. And then post!
So. Done playing the original dark hordes, and offering my $0.02 worth.
Scenario 1: besieging the Ogre's castle is good fun. I'd add some interesting encounter, perhaps with a human scout (spearman?), or a storyline event.
Scenario 2: undead vs. undead battles are notoriously tedious. the terrain makes for a good challenge, though. Perhaps add some undead unit with fire or impact?
Scenario 3: still on the easy side, the only nasty thing the orcs have is the archer. Good for milking exp. Some story elements or easter egg might be included, as well as some terrain on the way to the east orc.
Scenario 4: interesting, the only difficulty are the high defenses of the elves and thief-types in the forest... there might be >some< terrain on the way to the wizard in the north. Some bonus objective would be nice, too.
Scenario 5: inside the tower, little in the terms of a challenge awaits. More varied terrain, plus perhaps some heavy infantry, or storyline choices (young mage: corrupt, or kill?) etc.
Scenario 6: this is actually interesting, I attacked with Gwitli along my troops to get some exp, and had then to run like hell, after recruiting sacrificial troops at the human castle.
I'd add more varied terrain, though, perhaps a choke point or two.
Also, the paladin lord does not need even half as much gold, because the first three to four recruits of his are more than sufficient to butcher anything you might throw at him. The rest of the units just slow down the comp's turn needlessly.
Scenario 7: one long winding tunnel one hex wide? with weak dwarves from time to time? Hm. Not my idea of entertainment, but ... I'd add crossroads, dwarves hiding behind corners, perhaps one ambush, the dwarves might have, say, a golem, thundering down the corridor behind you, slow but mighty... what else?
Ah. -> get the main character a decent name. Gwitli hardly does it as the name all lands should fear.
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Scenario 1: besieging the Ogre's castle is good fun. I'd add some interesting encounter, perhaps with a human scout (spearman?), or a storyline event.
Scenario 2: undead vs. undead battles are notoriously tedious. the terrain makes for a good challenge, though. Perhaps add some undead unit with fire or impact?
Scenario 3: still on the easy side, the only nasty thing the orcs have is the archer. Good for milking exp. Some story elements or easter egg might be included, as well as some terrain on the way to the east orc.
Scenario 4: interesting, the only difficulty are the high defenses of the elves and thief-types in the forest... there might be >some< terrain on the way to the wizard in the north. Some bonus objective would be nice, too.
Scenario 5: inside the tower, little in the terms of a challenge awaits. More varied terrain, plus perhaps some heavy infantry, or storyline choices (young mage: corrupt, or kill?) etc.
Scenario 6: this is actually interesting, I attacked with Gwitli along my troops to get some exp, and had then to run like hell, after recruiting sacrificial troops at the human castle.
I'd add more varied terrain, though, perhaps a choke point or two.
Also, the paladin lord does not need even half as much gold, because the first three to four recruits of his are more than sufficient to butcher anything you might throw at him. The rest of the units just slow down the comp's turn needlessly.
Scenario 7: one long winding tunnel one hex wide? with weak dwarves from time to time? Hm. Not my idea of entertainment, but ... I'd add crossroads, dwarves hiding behind corners, perhaps one ambush, the dwarves might have, say, a golem, thundering down the corridor behind you, slow but mighty... what else?
Ah. -> get the main character a decent name. Gwitli hardly does it as the name all lands should fear.
***
Last edited by Xandria on July 6th, 2006, 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The fight against human stupidity is endless, but we must never give it up.
- Jan Werich
- Jan Werich