Dwarwes have no chance to win in Wesnoth

Post by **La_vie_en_Wose** » May 3rd, 2006, 10:42 am

... unless it's on a full mountained map.
I do not want to re-write a 10568th thread upon this subject ( Dear MODS : I can't find the one I was looking for, anyway it has sunk ) but, as I read anguished threads like "undead are too weak", I'd llike to refer a kind of priority about this faction.
- A berseker is a kamikaze : when he attacks, there is no turning back.
- Thundergards are OK
- Fighters are very vulnerable, even if they are in cave or on a mountain.
- The serious PROBLEM : Gryphon Riders...
They look like angels with helmets, kind of peace bird. everywhere they get 50% ( water, snow, cave, desert... forest , i'm not sure ) and they do not have 3rd level unit : why ?
I'm a very very very very lazy Wose and I do not know anything about programing but if someone, like you who is reading me, could just dive into the core of the dwarf faction mechanics, that would be...
Er...
Wunderbach !

Merci

Post by **torangan** » May 3rd, 2006, 10:46 am

This game has a team working on balancing and believe it or not, the factions are very well balanced if played on one of the official maps. The problem is that each faction needs it's own set of tactics and no two can be played successfully in the same way.

Post by **La_vie_en_Wose** » May 3rd, 2006, 10:52 am

Dear Torangan,

You're talking to someone who plays and wins at Wesnoth. You're right about balancing except for dwarves, for each times I play a new version of wesnoth, I see a thinner balancing between undead, elves, humans. Except Dwarves.
Do you find logical that there is no 3rd level gryphon ?

Post by **zookeeper** » May 3rd, 2006, 11:27 am

I've found dwarves to be pretty good to play, and definitely not underpowered. However, I don't play a lot (at least I haven't in months), so this might just be the impression I've gotten after a few matches that went well.

Thunderers and poachers - the other for low-swing high damage, the other for high-swing low damage. Great. Ulfserkers shred archers and magi, just protect them well from counterattack. Fighters are simple, good fighters, nothing special there. Guardsmen are excellent for holding villages or temporarily guarding wounded units (like the archers and ulfs) with ZoC.

And what do the qualities of a 3rd level unit or the lack of one have to do with default MP balance anyway?

Post by **Doc Paterson** » May 3rd, 2006, 11:27 am

La_vie_en_Wose wrote:Dear Torangan,

You're talking to someone who plays and wins at Wesnoth.

This is just beyond silly, and there's no doubt in my mind that you have an extremely warped sense of your abilities. I think even a below-average player would chuckle a little bit at the argument that a faction is unbalanced partly because of one of its units not being able to advance to L3.

Go on the server right now.

Find any one of these people:

Soliton
Dragonking
Ond Goblin
Pietro
Noy
Sir Fantom
ereksos
JW
Becephalus
George Mason
Tony Almeida
Jack Bauer
David Palmer

(that's not meant to be in any sort of order)

Ask any of these players for a game in which they play as Knalgans.

Post by **Zhukov** » May 3rd, 2006, 11:51 am

...another little piece of Noy bites the dust.

Post by **La_vie_en_Wose** » May 3rd, 2006, 12:17 pm

Doc Paterson wrote:
La_vie_en_Wose wrote:Dear Torangan,

You're talking to someone who plays and wins at Wesnoth.
This is just beyond silly,

Why ? Ah ! I see... The tone of my sentence make your mind refering to Scarface (the famous : "you're talking to me"). That wasn't just the idea.
I had the feeling that I was read as a newbie in that way I wanted to ensure the answerer it wasn't the case.
To make things advance.

Doc Paterson wrote: Go on the server right now.

I can't. They ' ll hurt me....

Find any one of these people:

Soliton
Dragonking
Ond Goblin
Pietro
Noy
Sir Fantom
ereksos
JW
Becephalus
George Mason
Tony Almeida
Jack Bauer
David Palmer

(that's not meant to be in any sort of order)

I'm impressed by your sense of the detail

WildPenguin · Post by **WildPenguin** » May 3rd, 2006, 12:37 pm

La_vie_en_Wose wrote:"The one who asks a question looks stupid five minutes, the one who doesn't is stupid".

Post by **La_vie_en_Wose** » May 3rd, 2006, 1:06 pm

zookeeper wrote:I've found dwarves to be pretty good to play, and definitely not underpowered. However, I don't play a lot (at least I haven't in months), so this might just be the impression I've gotten after a few matches that went well.

Thunderers and poachers - the other for low-swing high damage, the other for high-swing low damage. Great. Ulfserkers shred archers and magi, just protect them well from counterattack. Fighters are simple, good fighters, nothing special there. Guardsmen are excellent for holding villages or temporarily guarding wounded units (like the archers and ulfs) with ZoC.

I use thunderers for villages, Ulfbersekers the same way, Fighters : we agree, Guardsmen... I do not use them well I guess

zookeeper wrote: And what do the qualities of a 3rd level unit or the lack of one have to do with default MP balance anyway?

If I understand well, I'll reply to you with another question : Do you know any other official Wesnoth faction who hasn't it's 3rd lvl unit ?

Post by **La_vie_en_Wose** » May 3rd, 2006, 1:12 pm

WildPenguin wrote:
La_vie_en_Wose wrote:"The one who asks a question looks stupid five minutes, the one who doesn't is stupid".

Post by **Soliton** » May 3rd, 2006, 2:04 pm

La_vie_en_Wose wrote: I had the feeling that I was read as a newbie in that way I wanted to ensure the answerer it wasn't the case.

You are being 'read as a newbie' because of the statements you make.
If you want to be taken seriously/convince someone you need to provide evidence to your claims in one way or another. (mere words will most likely not suffice)

Post by **Ken_Oh** » May 3rd, 2006, 2:07 pm

Don't we have some threads that are only weeks old with the exact opposite thesis as this?

Post by **La_vie_en_Wose** » May 3rd, 2006, 3:15 pm

Ken Oh wrote:Don't we have some threads that are only weeks old with the exact opposite thesis as this?

I've read a poll concerning "Is the thunderguard overpowered". I can't find it anymore using the "search" option. But it seems the "no" answer was up.

Soliton wrote:
La_vie_en_Wose wrote: I had the feeling that I was read as a newbie in that way I wanted to ensure the answerer it wasn't the case.
You are being 'read as a newbie' because of the statements you make.
If you want to be taken seriously/convince someone you need to provide evidence to your claims in one way or another. (mere words will most likely not suffice)

Thanks for your answer. How could I convince ( or be conviced )... I think I should try with players on the server next time I'll have time. I'll play Elves against Dwarves ( Loyalists are too tough... Oh ! Sorry ! I'm a bad Loyalist player )

Post by **Noy** » May 3rd, 2006, 7:01 pm

Zhukov wrote:...another little piece of Noy bites the dust.

I know... its so sad.

Doc Patterson wrote: George Mason
Tony Almeida
Jack Bauer
David Palmer

How CAN you win against the Cast of Season 2 CTU? Jack Bauer could have only goblins at his disposal and it would all be over.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » May 3rd, 2006, 7:24 pm

Dwarf fighters rule.