Wesnoth Mythology and Folklore Club

[Great_Mage_Atari]

All monsters in Greece had a purpose. Scylla and Charybdis were set up on either side of the Strait of Messina between Sicily and the Italian mainland to destroy traveling vessels. The Minotaur was eventually used by a King to eliminate his enemies in his gigantic maze, Cerberus to guard the gates of Hades, and so on and so forth.
In answer to Drakefriend: In Greek mythology, the Gods (or some other higher-being) curses a man, woman, or family due to acts of selfishness, hubris, or other less favorable acts. The curse is set up to where the blood line of the cursed will continue on the curse until eventually the bloodline is destroyed. I don't think this is necessarily an inherited thing in terms of genetics, but more of a super-natural force set up by higher-ups on the magic meter.

[Boldek]

Here's another thing I find interesting about Greek mythology critters: The idea of robots seem rather the norm to them. Hephaestus was crippled by his mentally unstable dad, and has two bronze people he made help him along. Minos has a giant bronze statue that guarded Crete and attempted to kill Theseus. Jason was asked to yoke fire breathing bulls that were bronze. But the thing is: where could they have got the idea of living statues or creations that were made out of bronze? To create a mechanical statue that could be controlled through levers and gears is one thing, a fire breathing automated statue that just walked around is another. Though someone coming up with 'a crazy dog with seven heads' might be more plausible, where did they come up with this artificial intelligence thing? Or was all those above mentioned creatures actually puppets or machinery controlled by a crew of grumpy Cretans?

[powershot]

What about that other huge robot they had too?

Anyway, maybe their animated by magic too.

[Dixie]

Hm... Greek mythology. I think it's kind of strange that the Gods are sooooooo powerful but they need heroes to save them. Um... Anybody wondering?

Well, imho, there are two main reasons to this:

First of all, politics. Gods are almighty... But there are many gods! What if Zeus wants to do something, but it might enrage Arès (or whoever)? Doing it himself wouldn't be very subtle, and then he could get in a fight with other gods, which is not desirable. Heros are probably harder to detect, and the god using him can always deny if the hero gets caught or something. Also, theya re sacrificiable (more so than gods, anyway)

Second, gods have lots of others things to do, and are above certain tasks. You, yourself, can you be expected to mine your mineral, smelt your metal and forge it into a spoon everytime you want to eat a bowl of cereal (and I'm not even counting in the fabrication of the bowl and making of the cereals)? It's the same for the gods: they have some things to do with their powers, and can't be bothered to go on mission everytime somethings requires doing. They have to delegate a bit. And also, how would it look if they went down there everytime a mortal needed saving or something? It would quickly become banal, normal. Mortals would expect them all the time, might not even try anymore. While if they sparsely show themselves, it feels much more grandiose.

Here's another thing I find interesting about Greek mythology critters: The idea of robots seem rather the norm to them. Hephaestus was crippled by his mentally unstable dad, and has two bronze people he made help him along. Minos has a giant bronze statue that guarded Crete and attempted to kill Theseus. Jason was asked to yoke fire breathing bulls that were bronze. But the thing is: where could they have got the idea of living statues or creations that were made out of bronze? To create a mechanical statue that could be controlled through levers and gears is one thing, a fire breathing automated statue that just walked around is another. Though someone coming up with 'a crazy dog with seven heads' might be more plausible, where did they come up with this artificial intelligence thing? Or was all those above mentioned creatures actually puppets or machinery controlled by a crew of grumpy Cretans?

Well, Imho, it is us today who interpret them as robot. I'm pretty sure that concept meant nothing in ancient greece, and I'm also pretty sure the idea of cogs and levers was out of the question. I think the whole idea of animated statues and such was more to reflect power. Bronze was their everyday metal, possibly one of the hardest amterial they had around. So ultimate resistance = ultimate material = bronze. And I too am more on the side of magic (even if very advanced technology can be interpreted as magic) since they already have godly powers, monsters and the like in their universe.

[Boldek]

Well, Imho, it is us today who interpret them as robot. I'm pretty sure that concept meant nothing in ancient greece, and I'm also pretty sure the idea of cogs and levers was out of the question. I think the whole idea of animated statues and such was more to reflect power. Bronze was their everyday metal, possibly one of the hardest amterial they had around. So ultimate resistance = ultimate material = bronze. And I too am more on the side of magic (even if very advanced technology can be interpreted as magic) since they already have godly powers, monsters and the like in their universe.

True there, I guess it's just how one interprets 'Okay, it was a dude, but METAL!' as a robot, after all, a great deal of mythology is mythology due to misinterpretation.

Well, imho, there are two main reasons to this:

First of all, politics. Gods are almighty... But there are many gods! What if Zeus wants to do something, but it might enrage Arès (or whoever)? Doing it himself wouldn't be very subtle, and then he could get in a fight with other gods, which is not desirable. Heros are probably harder to detect, and the god using him can always deny if the hero gets caught or something. Also, theya re sacrificiable (more so than gods, anyway)

Second, gods have lots of others things to do, and are above certain tasks. You, yourself, can you be expected to mine your mineral, smelt your metal and forge it into a spoon everytime you want to eat a bowl of cereal (and I'm not even counting in the fabrication of the bowl and making of the cereals)? It's the same for the gods: they have some things to do with their powers, and can't be bothered to go on mission everytime somethings requires doing. They have to delegate a bit. And also, how would it look if they went down there everytime a mortal needed saving or something? It would quickly become banal, normal. Mortals would expect them all the time, might not even try anymore. While if they sparsely show themselves, it feels much more grandiose.

Not to mention sending your illegitimate kid to wipe out your sister's monster is much cleaner and draws the attention away from you. Remember that unlike Norse mythology, Greek gods is basically at some level messed up family politics, where Zeus and his crazy family all pick fights indirectly with each others illegitimate sons/creepy monster/themselves dressed up as old ladies as pawns. Despite the fact everybody knew what was going on, they somehow prefer watching little people in Greece sweat it out instead of them just fighting each other.

[Shinobody]

@Boldek, Dixie : Actually, tales relating to Hephaestus or tales of Daedalus and Icarus are basically proto-science-fiction.
Rather than science itself (although Daedalus as arrogant and technically and mathematically brilliant philosopher is prototype of "mad scientist" stereotype) they admire and glorify craftsmanship, assuming that achieving mastery at these works could allow humans to break boundaries set by nature, and gods, pretty much working like magic or gods powers - sounds familiar? Of course, such ideas are heavily watered down by "such powers are reserved for gods" attitude of the times, but all that means is that storytellers of the time had to face censorship just as modern ones.
@GMA : Actually, one might say that curse would be a matter of genetics : Oedipus was said to kill his father, and it is obviously visible in context that actual concept of family is unimportant, and it is proven twice in very same tale: Oedipus' [acronym=Um, spoilers? :­P]"father" he is destined to kill[/acronym] is his biological father, and curse still pertains despite having no family link to people who abandoned him when he was child.

[Boldek]

pretty much working like magic or gods powers - sounds familiar? Of course, such ideas are heavily watered down by "such powers are reserved for gods" attitude of the times, but all that means is that storytellers of the time had to face censorship just as modern ones.

Censorship? Not really. It was more that the gods got ticked by you being smarter than them. (take the story about Athena and the little weaver named Arachnid or something.)

[Hulavuta]

In that story, it was more that Arachne didn't give Athena any credit for "giving" her her talent.

[Boldek]

And was making crude pictures of her and her chums at the same time while beating her at the race.

[Hulavuta]

I've checked the myth on several sites, and they seem to be very vague on who was winning. "Both worked very skillfully" showed up on more than one page. If anything, they'd have a tie.I'm also not sure if it was a race, more like something to be judged. In either case, Athena was too mad about Arachne's offensive weaving that she cut the contest short.

[Flameslash]

Arachne was probably winning to make Athena turn her into a spider.

[Boldek]

Arachne was probably winning to make Athena turn her into a spider.

Why? The story seems to be more of a moral lesson: 'don't try too hard to win, or Athena's gonna gitcha!'. What would be her motives for being transformed?

I've checked the myth on several sites, and they seem to be very vague on who was winning. "Both worked very skillfully" showed up on more than one page. If anything, they'd have a tie.I'm also not sure if it was a race, more like something to be judged. In either case, Athena was too mad about Arachne's offensive weaving that she cut the contest short.

Yeah, it was definitely the pics that did it.

[Flameslash]

But she wouldn't know the moral, because she was in the competition before the moral was made.

[Boldek]

No, I mean it appears that getting turned into a spider was a bad thing, a severe punishment. The spider part is supposed to be the 'ouch' part of the moral story. I mean, would you enjoy arachnification? Why would arachne want to be spiderfied?

[Temuchin Khan]

Actually, the moral of the story of Arachne, like that of many other Greek myths (the story of Niobe and her children, the story of Tantalus, etc.) is that you shouldn't be prideful and arrogant or the gods will give you what you deserve.

There are exceptions, like the story of Prometheus, but in general those whom the Greek gods punish really do seem to get what they deserve, like Zeus says at the beginning of the Odyssey when he complains about how humans blame the gods for their sufferings, when they really cause their own sufferings by their own misbehavior. He gives the example of how Aigisthus could have chosen not to have an affair with Clytemnestra and murder Agamemnon, in which case he wouldn't have been murdered in revenge by Agamemnon's son Orestes.

To the Greeks, in other words, Aigisthus caused his own problems by stealing Agamemnon's wife, and Arachne caused her own problems by being arrogant to Athena.

EDIT: Well, that's how I understood the story of Arachne when I first read it. But on the other hand, I've always been partial to Athena!