Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.8.2 - now on Ko-fi!

[bvanevery]

Regarding present efforts:

Spoiler:

In this situation I think the best option would be to make another campaign about Summoners (something like TLU 2 with a similar number of scenarios - about 20 or less).

That makes sense to me.

If we decide to go that way, we will need to tell this story only after the 2nd campaign is released (because I don't want to make two campaigns about one faction one after another).

As does this.

Yes, I am working on a campaign about Tharis but it's in early stage (creating events and places). Currently all the work is on hold due to my exams in January.

I have my own career and moving issues to contend with in the coming year, so I feel you on the labor. Nevertheless I will pester you with questions on the storyline, as it keeps me amused and sometimes leads to inspiration about character, plot, or game mechanics. At least at this point we have better understanding of what's going on in the Abyss than we previously did.

One open question for me, is how the Abyss connects with the regular world. Clearly it can, as we saw with the Red Abyss in "Chaos." I am made to wonder if every race has connections to the Abyss, but they are not all cognizant of them being the same thing. For instance the Darkblood experience of the Abyss might be essentially shamanistic, and the terrain of the Abyss might actually be solid in the region of their connection. I hinted about the lizards' secret glacier earlier. It could be a terrain anomaly, one of those 'whorl' regions where material has been trapped in 'Katamari Damacy' fashion.

It's important for these connections to be mysterious, not well known, and not generally accessible, as otherwise the plot of the Enlightened Ones "being safe forever" wouldn't make any sense. The Abyss cannot be a superhighway between corners of the world. To metaphorize to sci-fi, the "star gates" should be underwater, deep in ice, or locked in an inaccessible cavern most of the time. Also the connections may collapse after the player experiences them, to preserve the general inaccessibility of the Abyss.

[bvanevery]

Regarding the Tharis:

Spoiler:

Why are the Tharis invading people? Because they can? Because the resource conditions of their homeland demand it? What's their motive? Is a particular leader causing it to happen?

The Kharosians are to the northwest of The Great Desert. The Tharis seem to come from the northwest, north, and/or northeast. They attempt to invade Mag-Magar, which is to the northeast. This implies that the logistical range of the Tharis is quite large, as the "straight march" from the Kharosians to Al-Kamija would have been through Tar-Tabar to the northwest. However, they appear to be land-bound, and have probably never encountered the Barbarians or the Darkblooded to the south. The Great Desert is in the way.

If a campaign about the Tharis takes place after the end of "To Lands Unknown," then they won't be fighting Summoners. They might still fight the Kharosians, but the back of their army was broken at Kharos, and the Master of Darkness slain. Any war with the Kharosians is probably a retreat, leading to the ejection of the Tharis from Kharosian land.

What is left of the Summoners' lands, now that they have gone to the Abyss? Did only the cities vanish? Is Ka-Gatta still there or not? Did a huge circular divot get taken out of the continent? This might make the terrain rather different. For instance, it could now be volcanic. An inland sea could be created, as part of the circle went through the Jungle of Life to the south, and presumably that gets rain and has rivers. Could have been a huge disaster for the Darkblooded actually. The environmental impact of the Summoners vanishing should be decided.

What are the Tharis going to do with the empty space that once was The Great Desert? For that matter, what are the Barbarians and the Darkblooded going to do? Is there any value in it? I doubt that the Tharis see the Barbarians or the Darkblooded as threats. They're not as magically powerful or organized as either the Kharosians or the Summoners, they're separated by a worthless desert (unless that's changed), and they're constantly at war with each other.

What is important to know about the Tharis? What authorial themes do you want to develop?

Considering that their campaign in this part of the world is a complete failure, Tharis-upon-Tharis conflict presents itself.

[wesfreak]

Spoiler:

Essentially, the environmental impacts would probably be determined by the mechanics of banyshing something to the abyss: When a smaller circle is drawn around a magical creature or person that is then sent to the abyss, what happens to the inside of the circle? Based (partially) on the what happens to the world map, my own interpretation is that everything within the circle and a few millimetres of the ground it's on is taken to the abyss. (but if a plant was in the circle, the entire plant would be taken, leaving a hole in the ground where the roots used to be) This would mean that what remains would be an even more inhospitable desert than before, since there would be no plants or animals remaining in the entire circle. Where before there were oasis's, there would be nothing but sand. Where there was forest or swamp, there would be nothing but soil or water. Eventually, of course, some life would return to the area, but for quite a while it would be an lifeless gap.

As for the sequel of TLU, I think we should decide on what the conflict is before fleshing out the details.

[bvanevery]

As for the sequal of TLU, I think we should decide on what the conflict is before fleshing out the details.

What do you mean by "the sequel" ? If you mean "the next campaign," see my post about the Tharis. If you mean "a campaign about the further journeys of Mehir after TLU ends," inferno8 has said he's not working on that until after the campaign about Tharis is done. Thus at this time, I see no point in doing any further planning for it at all. We don't need to know the conflict, the point is moot. We already developed enough background material for what the conflict may be someday.

[bvanevery]

Regarding Circles:

Spoiler:

Essentially, the environmental impacts would probably be determined by the mechanics of banyshing something to the abyss: When a smaller circle is drawn around a magical creature or person that is then sent to the abyss,

We have never seen a person banished to the Abyss. Banishment is performed on magical creatures, you can't banish people. Banishment relates to the transmission of magical energy, not living things. Just as Summoning relates to the transmission of magical energy, not living things.

We know that living people, and mechanical golems, can be sucked through a large gate into the Red Abyss. Why can a large gate suck a person or object into the Abyss, but a small Circle cannot? For combat purposes, we really don't care if we banish or simply kill our opponent. Either works. We don't really care if our opponent makes it to the Abyss in one piece or scattered into atoms. We don't care if they end up in the Abyss or some unbreathable void in space, as long as they can't fight us anymore. Is it merely a matter of difficulty, i.e. a Level 3 Banisher's "Banishment" vs. a Level 4 Summons Master's "Incantation of Power" ? It seems that magic is easier to manipulate than matter, but you can manipulate matter if you've got enough skill.

We don't know what happens to them on the other side, although Aerius did survive somehow. We know the journey through a gate is one way. Guru brought Aerius back, but we have no idea how; it may not involve Circles at all.

what happens to the inside of the circle? Based (partially) on the what happens to the world map, my own interpretation is that everything within the circle and a few millimetres of the ground it's on is taken to the abyss. (but if a plant was in the circle, the entire plant would be taken, leaving a hole in the ground where the roots used to be). This would mean that what remains would be an even more inhospitable desert than before, since there would be no plants or animals remaining in the entire circle.

This brings up several issues of interpretation:

• living things are "transported wholly" or "severed at the line."
• non-living things are "transported wholly" or "severed at the line."
• a Circle is mathematically "precise," or contextually "messy" i.e. fits whatever we want it to fit.

If a Circle is "precise," then is the plane of The Great Circle perfectly level? I say it's not. The continent is big and getting the Great Circle perfectly level would be a huge undertaking. Thus, the plane of severance is in doubt. If it were perfect, then some places would be "stripped bare" of everything, even tens or hundreds of feet below ground, and other places would have no effect at all. It would depend on the local elevation, and on whether the circle is perfectly perpendicular to the surface of the planet. The size of the Great Circle is large enough that it's cutting a chord across the (presumed) spherical planet. This implies a lot of below-ground stuff in the vicinity of Al-Kamija would be sent into the Abyss.

If a Circle is "messy," I say there is no impact on the ecology of The Great Desert. The surface is already tremendously inhospitable, and life is pretty much a below-ground phenomenon. That's where the water is, the seeds and roots are, and the burrowing animals are. The burrowing animals mostly aren't going to be out by day, so unless the Summoners completed the Great Circle at night, the burrowing animals are mostly spared. At most times of the year, the tops of plants are dead. If non-living things are "severed at the line," then the dead plant tops will go into the Abyss, leaving the living roots behind.

Let's say that non-living things "transport wholly." If the line of severance intersects one solid piece of igneous bedrock, then all the bedrock would transport, leaving a huge hole! In fact the hole could be literally miles across. Single piece igneous rocks do exist in places like Yellowstone National Park in the USA. If you shear the top of a mountain, the root of the mountain goes as well.

What to choose depends on what story we want to tell, what energizes us as writers. These concepts could be interesting to explore, or they could be huge distractions from something else we'd rather explore. We could, for instance, have The Great Desert transformed into a volcanic cauldron simply because we want to. Or we could have the Summoners vanish entirely from the world with zero impact and no trace that they ever existed, simply because we want to.

[inferno8]

Spoiler:

Nevertheless I will pester you with questions on the storyline, as it keeps me amused and sometimes leads to inspiration about character, plot, or game mechanics.

Hope there won't be many questions because it requires me to write understandable answers in English, which is not easy for a foreigner (weird, sometimes I think it would be easier and faster to phone you ).

I am made to wonder if every race has connections to the Abyss, but they are not all cognizant of them being the same thing. For instance the Darkblood experience of the Abyss might be essentially shamanistic, and the terrain of the Abyss might actually be solid in the region of their connection. I hinted about the lizards' secret glacier earlier. It could be a terrain anomaly, one of those 'whorl' regions where material has been trapped in 'Katamari Damacy' fashion.

It's an interesting theory. It would make the Abyss an original source of all known magic in the world of EoMa. But there can be a problem. The Abyss has changed its address since Rashti's incident. Does it mean magic is inaccessible too? It looks like not.

We have never seen any living thing come out of the Abyss, whether by circle or gate.

I wanted to give an example of Nomolas hand from scenario 2, but at the same time I realized that Nomolas is not a living creature, but a pure energy being.

I propose: moving magic and energy is easy. Hence it works well at a small scale. Moving matter is hard, whether living or inanimate. Hence it takes an enormous economy of scale to pull off. It might be possible to send something really tiny through a circle of a few feet, like maybe a bobby pin.

That's exactly how it works.

A gate-sized circle can handle something the size of a man, but no larger. What happens if you try? What happens when multiple people go through at once, such as happened in "Chaos?"

Nothing happens. The gate in "Chaos" (and the blue one in the Central Palace) is a persistent passage, which means everything (even air and light) can be transported through it. The Great Circle was a gate too. It lasted only for a minute, but transfered millions of people at once.

Why can a large gate suck a person or object into the Abyss, but a small Circle cannot?

Size does matter. The bigger a circle is, the more power it has.

Problem: destroying things with circles isn't solved. You could make a temple support column disappear. You could make a living person vanish. They don't come out "whole on the other side" somewhere, they are destroyed.

The circle of destruction emits destructive energy from the Red Abyss, but the whole process is too short to destroy a column. By destructive energy I mean a "magical warm".

If living things are viewed as "nothing special," just another form of matter, then some plants would have their tops cut off but their roots left intact. Trees in the jungle would die, but creeping grasses and vines would come back right away. The jungle would change to a "new growth grassland." The desert would probably be as bad as it was before. It's always been depicted as pretty bad, with few oases and no rivers or bodies of water. Drought kills lots of stuff; some animals and plants have always survived it. Below-ground water would still be there.

This statement is the closest to my explanation. A gate can transport matter and energy. The Great Circle created a passage on the surface of the planet (messy) and everything inside it and above it fell to the Abyss (precise). That means things from underground such as roots of plants and basements of buildings were separated from their parts on the surface. The disappearance of Summoners made no impact on the ecology of the Great Desert. Only sand remained (and basements of buildings). This is how I see this. Of course we can change this if there is a problem with that.

Regarding Tharis:
I am going to create a new topic about the upcoming campaign in "Scenario&Campaign development". I will answer your questions there.

[bvanevery]

The Great Circle Theory:

Spoiler:

I am made to wonder if every race has connections to the Abyss, but they are not all cognizant of them being the same thing. For instance the Darkblood experience of the Abyss might be essentially shamanistic, and the terrain of the Abyss might actually be solid in the region of their connection. I hinted about the lizards' secret glacier earlier. It could be a terrain anomaly, one of those 'whorl' regions where material has been trapped in 'Katamari Damacy' fashion.

It's an interesting theory. It would make the Abyss an original source of all known magic in the world of EoMa. But there can be a problem. The Abyss has changed its address since Rashti's incident. Does it mean magic is inaccessible too? It looks like not.

I have never interpreted "losing the Abyss" or "changing the address of the Abyss" to mean that the Abyss becomes permanently inaccessible. Rather, The Great Circle is constructed with a hardwired "address" that's extremely difficult for the Summoners to derive, and the address is out of date. The Summoners finished the work in a hurry because they were afraid the Great Circle would simply fail to work, or worse, drop them somewhere completely uninhabitable like the vacuum of space or the center of a star. I don't know how accurate their knowledge of the cosmos is, but surely they know that a gate can point to nothing, or something terrible. Even pointing into the Red Abyss instead of the (blue) Abyss would have been totally unacceptable.

After Rashti messed up the Abyss, the Summoners could in principle have started building another Great Circle somewhere else, and it would work. However, it's not going to work here again for a few hundred years. Here is what the Summoners were interested in. Consider how difficult it would be to conquer some other part of the world, that's large enough and located well enough to work. Such a place could be on the other side of the planet for all they know, assuming they have knowledge of this world as a sphere. Between waiting hundreds of years for favorable conditions to arise here again, and spending hundreds of years conquering somewhere else that will work, it's a wash. That's why they got a move-on.

One does have to ask why they didn't try something "less ambitious." They could have built a much smaller gate, and asked Nomolas to build a replica of Al-Kamija on the other side. They could have asked for the creation of solid land on the other side. They could have slowly marched their populace through such a gate one-by-one. For some reason they didn't, they said, "Quick! Get it done! Get it done!" like they're trying to ship software before their competitors do. I offer the following explanation: the time delay of moving millions of people one-by-one into the Abyss would scatter the Summoners all over the Abyss. They would not be living coherently in the Abyss, it would be a diaspora into the infinite. We've never seen a gate open for longer than ten minutes, so we're not violating any precedents here. The accuracy over time of the Summoners is terrible. The Enlightened Ones have demonstrated that greater accuracy is possible, so ancient civilizations may very well have constructed "stable" gates into the Abyss, but the Summoners certainly don't know how to do it. Thus the Summoners had to get everything done at once. It's the only thing they knew how to do.

We do need to ask, what kind of coherent existence are the Summoners now living in the Abyss? They went to a great deal of trouble to keep their people and lands "together." What did they get for this trouble? 4 floating cities at known positions to each other? Is that they best they could do?

Mehir's problem was not simply getting into the Abyss. He could have made a big enough Circle and gotten to somewhere in the Abyss. Mehir's problem was getting to the same place in the Abyss. The Abyss is infinitely vast, and Al-Kamija is the tiniest of specks in that realm. Only the magic of The Enlightened Ones is accurate enough to locate Al-Kamija and create an exact entrance to it. Even then, the entrance isn't quite as exact as one would like. Mehir falls, just within sight of Al-Kamija.

The linkage from this world to the Abyss through a gate is described in terms of an "address." This is an unfortunate slip into sci-fi, computer, or postal code terminology. If we ever think of a better word to describe it, you might consider replacing the word "address" with something more in keeping with an Arabic fantasy adventure. You might even consider making up a word.

If living things are viewed as "nothing special," just another form of matter, then some plants would have their tops cut off but their roots left intact. Trees in the jungle would die, but creeping grasses and vines would come back right away. The jungle would change to a "new growth grassland." The desert would probably be as bad as it was before. It's always been depicted as pretty bad, with few oases and no rivers or bodies of water. Drought kills lots of stuff; some animals and plants have always survived it. Below-ground water would still be there.

This statement is the closest to my explanation. A gate can transport matter and energy. The Great Circle created a passage on the surface of the planet (messy) and everything inside it and above it fell to the Abyss (precise). That means things from underground such as roots of plants and basements of buildings were separated from their parts on the surface. The disappearance of Summoners made no impact on the ecology of the Great Desert. Only sand remained (and basements of buildings). This is how I see this. Of course we can change this if there is a problem with that.

Works for me. The gate can have a messy construction, over irregular surfaces, as long as it's "a circle, as seen from the perpendicular axis." An ellipse can work, for instance, because at some viewpoint it's a circle. Actually a circle could be projected onto just about anything, so long as some kind of continuity can be maintained. The irregular terrain is part of why the address of the Great Circle is complicated and fragile. Once the gate is finished, a precise surface is created, even if it's an irregular surface. On one side things are sucked in, on the other side nothing happens.

One interesting consequence, is what happens in the presence of a trench, ditch, quarry, or mineshaft? Or for that matter, a bump, a partly exposed boulder, or a smoothly sloping hill? To what degree does the irregular surface "smooth" the terrain? Are the mountain peaks gone? Are the mountains gone? To what degree does the precise surface "bulge?" When does it "snap taut?"

[bvanevery]

BTW inferno8, you're busted! You've recast "Stargate" into an Arabic fantasy setting.

• The Enlightened Ones = The Ancients
• The Summoners = The Tau'ri (Earth humans)
• The Tharis = The Wraith
• The Kharosians = The Ori, although nice instead of mean
• The Barbarians = The Jaffar (forehead ornaments) or the Unas (big brutes)
• The Darkblooded (jungle) = The Athosians (forest)
• The Runemasters = The Replicators

Ok I'm stretching, but the evidence is incontrovertible. How do you plead?

[inferno8]

BTW inferno8, you're busted! You've recast "Stargate" into an Arabic fantasy setting.

What a weird coincidence! I can't believe it! I swear I have never seen the TV series (only the movie). I am... shocked

Spoiler:

I offer the following explanation: the time delay of moving millions of people one-by-one into the Abyss would scatter the Summoners all over the Abyss. They would not be living coherently in the Abyss, it would be a diaspora into the infinite.

I like this explanation.

We do need to ask, what kind of coherent existence are the Summoners now living in the Abyss? They went to a great deal of trouble to keep their people and lands "together." What did they get for this trouble? 4 floating cities at known positions to each other? Is that they best they could do?

Having these 4 cities allows Summoners to recreate the Great Circle, which would take them back to the real world.

The linkage from this world to the Abyss through a gate is described in terms of an "address." This is an unfortunate slip into sci-fi, computer, or postal code terminology. If we ever think of a better word to describe it, you might consider replacing the word "address" with something more in keeping with an Arabic fantasy adventure. You might even consider making up a word.

I don't think it is necessary as long as it is understandable and correct.

To what degree does the irregular surface "smooth" the terrain?

I would say 10-15 degrees. That would make entire mountains disappear and it would be cool to see them falling into the Abyss.

[bvanevery]

Regarding the Abyss:

Spoiler:

We do need to ask, what kind of coherent existence are the Summoners now living in the Abyss? They went to a great deal of trouble to keep their people and lands "together." What did they get for this trouble? 4 floating cities at known positions to each other? Is that they best they could do?

Having these 4 cities allows Summoners to recreate the Great Circle, which would take them back to the real world.

Well, it may allow them to return, and it may not end up being important to them. From the intro to Scenario 3, "East of Sud-Affar":

Living in Al-Kamija, we have learned quite a lot about Abyss, but we haven't been able to enter that world. Maybe because no-one in that dimension can summon us... However, in the last few years, we managed to design a special magic circle that is able to take us to that unreal world. Our tests were successful, but to this day we cannot summon previously sent items back to our world. As a result of this, although it sounds crazy, we decided to send our entire land to the Abyss, hoping that we will find the solution on the other side. But even if we find it, we may not use it...

It should be stressed that we believe we will find in the Abyss the ultimate sense of our life and decide to stay there forever.

My point is, they didn't do this expecting an 'exit clause.' They were fully prepared for this to be a one way journey. So I have to wonder if they wanted a little more land and stability out of the bargain than just 4 floating cities, very far away from each other, whose relative positions might allow them to go back. Also, the architecture of Al-Kamija floats in one piece easily enough, but what about the urban layouts of the other 3? The story implies that these cities are not towers, as Al-Kamija is the only thing anyone can see for a thousand miles. How are the other 3 cities kept coherent?

you might consider replacing the word "address" with something more in keeping with an Arabic fantasy adventure. You might even consider making up a word.

I don't think it is necessary as long as it is understandable and correct.

But it makes it sound like you ripped off Stargate, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate Universe, etc. Maybe you don't realize how popular that TV series is. I mean, it's on its 3rd sequel, which gives it pretty much the same staying power as Star Trek. For a lot of players talking about 'addresses' breaks the fourth wall.

To what degree does the irregular surface "smooth" the terrain?

I would say 10-15 degrees. That would make entire mountains disappear and it would be cool to see them falling into the Abyss.

If there were any mountains within The Great Circle, removing them would change the rainfall patterns of The Great Desert. However the map you drew doesn't seem to have any obvious mountains within the circle.

[bvanevery]

Regarding Tharis:
I am going to create a new topic about the upcoming campaign in "Scenario&Campaign development". I will answer your questions there.

I haven't seen it, so I'm guessing you're a bit overloaded for that. I will simplify my questions about the Tharis campaign:

• What is important to know about the Tharis?
• What do you want to say regarding the nature of War, particularly invasions?
• Do you want to spend lots of time on their occult practices?
• Do you want your main character to be powerful or weak? A general? A hapless pawn? A deserter?

[iwaim]

I found some typo in wescamp-i18n repo 1.8 branch.

Era_of_Magic-fix-typo_for-branche1.8.patch.gz

(1.37 KiB) Downloaded 188 times

and update units.cfg for i18n.

Era_of_Magic-race-i18n_for-branche1.8.patch.gz

(383 Bytes) Downloaded 193 times

[bvanevery]

I have been thinking about the Tharis. Here is a story for a campaign about them and the Kharosians, with a working title of "The Deserter."

I see the Tharis as a large despotic land empire, somewhere between the Romans, the Nazis, the Mongols, and the Aztecs as to how they're organized and the kind of suffering they inflict upon people. There's nothing pleasant about them. They are a culture that is based entirely upon domination, subjugation, and enslavement. Many of the people in their armies are not willing participants. Like various troops under both the Nazis and Soviets in WW II, they fight because if they don't, their masters will immediately kill them.

It is perhaps worth contrasting the motives of the Tharis with more traditional Wesnoth factions. Unlike the Wesnoth Orcs, Tharis do not fight for enjoyment. They fight because their leaders are cruel and malevolent. Their minions fight because they are scared to death. Tharis control their various conquered societies with illusion, darkness, madness, and genocide. In this respect they are somewhat like Sauron from The Lord of the Rings. Their minions are often like the Tolkien conception of orcs: not simply a race among racial equals as the semi-politically correct Wesnoth universe would have it, but rather the twisted bodies of elves who were tortured for many years in the dungeons of Angmar to produce truly warped and depraved beings. However, unlike Sauron (should he be reunited with his One Ring) the Tharis are not all-powerful. They are a land empire limited by extent and logistics, and consequently have other minions that are simply ordinary humans. Whether the humans believe in the world view of the Tharis, or whether they act out of fear alone, or whether they try to resist or desert, depends entirely on how much local control the Tharis have.

Tharis are occult and many of their magics are druidic in flavor. Hydras are created by mummifying their enemies while still alive and throwing them into bogs. What remains of the victim's tortured soul is controlled by the witches who lead a Tharis army. Should the witches ever leave the field or die, the hydras go into a rage and kill anything that vaguely resembles the essence of their torturers. The average combatant "dressed in black" is going to get his head bit off, regardless of his world view, but a truly benevolent being with a benevolent aura might be able to tame the hydras and release their souls from suffering.

The Kharosian High Priestess eventually learns this secret of their nature and trains her closest disciples to release the good in all such maligned beings. Unfortunately the Kharosians didn't figure this out when the Tharis initially invaded them; it is only as the tide of battle turns, and the Kharosians go on a counter-offensive to reclaim their insular kingdom, that the needed spiritual awakenings are understood. Thus the dialectic between Tharis and Kharosiasns is that of the pain of existence, and how different cultures come to terms with it. The Kharosians are not as pure and perfect as they would like themselves to be, but in the scheme of possible cultures, they are unquestioningly a better reaction to the problems of existence than the Tharis.

I am envisioning a campaign that encompasses both the Tharis and the Kharosians. I think they best explain each other, by contrast. It would star a deserter from the Tharis army. The tone of the story would be dramatic and serious, not comical like "To Lands Unknown."

As a small boy, his village was conquered. As all small children are instructed, his parents were thrown in the bog to become hydra, right before his very eyes. Then he is whisked around to whatever part of the empire the Tharis have need of his labor. Eventually all such children are trained to be soldiers or witches. Many traumas are repeated throughout his childhood and adolescence, as this is how the Tharis demonstrate the place of the conquered in their society. As the boy becomes a man, he cannot be the typical Wesnoth "good guy hero." He is deeply scarred, an emotional basket case with many repressed feelings. He takes action out of fear and survival, this is all he knows. Thus he may kill innocent people without hesitancy, not because he enjoys it in the slightest, but because it's a basic instinct for survival in Tharis culture. There isn't much room for kindness and mercy, as any officer who sees you bestowing such, would immediately kill you, whoever you were trying to help, anyone else they thought might be slightly relevant to the incident, and a few others for no reason at all. There is not much hope of resistance or revolution, at least not in the parts of the empire where the Tharis are strong, so mostly troops do what they're told and become as desensitized as they can to what they're doing. Repression of feelings is an important survival skill as well, as displays of crying, pity, or sadness are a quick way to get your head cut off.

When Mehir defeats the Tharis at Saffaros, the man has a chance to escape what little is left of the Tharis army. He is hunted by Kharosians who are regaining their strength, and hides in villages and mountains as best as he is able. He kills innocents as he needs to, to survive. He faces at least one situation where he kills, not out of need, but out of reflex, when there was not really a danger, and it was clearly brutal to do so. In the past there had always been some overlord making sure he would do it, but this time there is not, and it begins the crisis of conscience that starts to tear him apart. The crisis is not swift and overwhelming, but rather a slow burn, as he has a few decades of repressed emotions to unpack about what he is and what his parents were.

As the Kharosian counteroffensive becomes stronger and stronger, it becomes more and more difficult for the deserter to hide. He witnesses some battles at a distance, and sees that routed Tharis troops are "losing it." Defeat is not the usual Tharis military experience, and many of the repressed conscripts are not psychologically equipped to handle it. Some laugh and go into an ineffectual dementia, as their overlords are gone, but they cannot be truly happy lest they return. Some face the trauma of losing their loved ones for the first time in a great while, can't handle the guilt of what they've done, and kill themselves. Some just weep and can never stop. Some just go completely insane and run for the hills, running as far as they can until they go over a cliff or are eaten by wild animals or some such. Some do manage to simply surrender, but they are muted and dead, the typical emotionally stunted citizens of the Tharis empire.

Kharosian healers walk among the defeated soldiers. They try to help, but the level of damage is uncommon in the relatively benevolent Kharosian society, and there are so many. The High Priestess convenes a special temple to handle the prisoners, to try to find a way to bring them back as human beings. A significant segment of Kharosian society fears that the prisoners are too "hardcore" to ever be restored to anything resembling normalcy, and thus are too dangerous to be released into society. Thus nearly everyone agrees to keep them under strong guard, and some think they might be better off if they were simply euthanized. The small conflict over what to do with these tortured people reveals that the Kharosians, although a relatively benevolent society, is hardly a perfect enlightened society and has its own fears and ugliness.

The deserter finally unravels, in part because he has seen his countrymen unravel. He comes out of hiding, walks into town, and throws himself at the mercy of the priesthood. He experiences a dark period somewhat like living in an insane asylum. The Kharosians are not necessarily doing bad things to him, but many of his reactions to authority are involuntary, and the Kharosians do not yet know any quick, effacious way to repair their damaged psyches.

The High Priestess is deeply disturbed by the turning of her soldiers at the battle of Kharos. Although it doesn't cause her to lose her faith, it causes her to question the boundaries of faith, the value of it to ordinary people who do not live in temples. If the Master of Darkness can so easily sway so many of her people that all their beliefs are false, and even that nihilism and darkness are to be preferred, what does that say for our condition as benevolent beings? She is frustrated by her inability to easily help the prisoners, and by the mutterings of some Kharosians that they should simply be killed, as it is somewhat reminiscent of the life philosophy of the Tharis they have just repelled. The Kharosians are on the march, but do they march for righteous things? Mehir just saved her, then betrayed her, and stole their Sun Ray. Well, half their Sun Ray. Rationally, she admits that nothing has changed for having lost half of it, except a feeling that their beliefs have been violated. This feeling of violation and betrayal has become a powerful force in Kharosian society, and she does not consider it to be positive. Should she have offered their sacred object freely and openly? What are Kharosians going to become as they embrace war and retake their homeland? Are Kharosians believing in correct things? Did the Master of Darkness, despite the obvious cruelty and wrongness of his world view, nevertheless have a minor point in there somewhere?

Somehow, not sure by exactly what mechanism or plot device, the High Priestess finally has a key insight as to how to help the prisoners. Perhaps it comes to her while she's on a battlefield, walking amongst more defeated Tharis troops. Perhaps she interacts successfully with a hydra. Perhaps examining the remains of a mummified victim in a bog helps her to understand. Perhaps she answers various questions that have been nagging her. Perhaps all these things. Eventually, however, she realizes she can help, and "The Deserter" is the 1st really hardcore case that she's able to have an impact upon.

The High Priestess has gained an exceptional ability, not through accident of birth or sheer willpower as the prophecies seemed to predict, but simply by a greater understanding of compassion and a willingness to see it through, to its logical conclusion. She realizes that she could, in some sense, now be considered a Mistress of Light. She also realizes that the Prophecies are a bit of a lie, because every such Mistress faces a final test of her "goodness." Will she transcend her body and become a perfectly good entity, a personification of the Light, or will she remain here in the world to perform good deeds? The morality of her predicament seems quite obvious to her, seeming to confirm that this is what a Mistress of Light actually is. This in turn leads her to question what Kharosians actually believe in. Although the core of Kharosian belief is mostly good, there are corners and details that now seem of little concern to her, yet are of disproportionate concern to others in Kharosian society. Such as the worship of the Sun Ray.

The High Priestess may go through an internal philosophical test; she may have developed an awareness that she can transcend but must now choose whether or not to do it. Alternately, she may be tested by an actual Sun god in these matters. If the Sun does appear and act as a guide, she will ask why the Sun has not intervened in the pain and suffering of the world. The Sun will say that he doesn't have the power. Although his dimension has many facets - light, darkness, benevolence, chaos, and elemental magic - it is an ephemeral place where structure and resolution comes and goes. Although the Sun doesn't explain it, these are all just facets of the Abyss. What the Sun does explain, is that the permanence of any Good or Evil upon the world is for her kind alone to determine, and will be whatever they choose. She asks, then why do we worship you at all?? The Sun says, "because I gave you plants. I have given so that you may grow."

The High Priestess comes to understand that Enlightenment is a gift passed from one sentient being to another, to the degree that such a being is capable of doing, given its own limitations. With this knowledge she asks The Deserter, and others of his kind, to help her to break the leadership of the Tharis empire. She knows that she and the Tharis prisoners are uniquely motivated to end this menace, that they are fanatically capable of giving their lives for a higher purpose, in a way that insular Kharosians concerned for beliefs, rituals, and relics cannot presently understand. She does not ask her own Kharosian people for this. She knows that if she does ask her people, in the course of waging war with the Tharis, they will become a lot more like the Tharis and a lot less like the enlightened being she has now become. She is already having trouble explaining why captured Tharis should live, and why people should not be so angry that half their Sun Ray is gone. She cannot defeat the Tharis but she can hope to mute and diminish them. To make the world more balanced, it is best to strike at the Greatest Evil, while protecting the Somewhat Good from the harm they would do to themselves in trying to conquer that evil. And so, the High Priestess, The Deserter, and all his countrymen at the Temple Asylum abscond in the night, on a clandestine mission to unravel the power of the Tharis leadership. Good timing too, as a minor faction of Kharosians was just about to murder as many of the prisoners as they could get away with.

The battles and adventures that follow deal with the Tharis occult. Gradually the mysteries of how the Tharis leadership controls their minions are unraveled. Villages here and there are set free, and the knowledge of how to resist spreads. The Tharis empire, being large and militarily powerful in conventional terms, has plenty of ordinary tools for keeping people repressed, but mind control just doesn't work as well anymore. The empire breaks up, with general chaos and multi-factioned civil wars. The farther reaches reassert themselves as independent nations, and start rebuilding themselves according to what they once were, before the dark times. The Deserter distinguishes himself valiantly in the conflict, although he does have his moments of temptation and relapse. Both The Deserter and The High Priestess are killed, but before their demise they see the likelihood of their work having a positive effect upon the world.

[bvanevery]

Some notes on characters and cultures.

Love is rare among the subjugated Tharis. The amount of trauma that any surviving Tharis is put through, the constant fear that one will be subjected to the discipline of the leadership, or spied upon by one's neighbors, makes it very difficult for the Tharis to do anything but protect themselves. Reproduction is often by rape, with males sympathetic to or embracing the violent repressive culture of the Tharis taking the dominant role as a form of reward. Sometimes for amusement the witches just force an unenthusiastic male to do the deed. Many of the women secretly try to become infertile, so that they will not bring children into this horrible world. If they are caught, they are often sent to slave labor camps, or sometimes thrown into the bog. If they fail to make themselves infertile and become pregnant, they often commit suicide, although a few are inevitably too numb to their circumstances to try to control their fate any longer. The lack of fertile women in Tharis is not a big deal to the leadership, as Tharis witches are plenty happy to have many babies, and there's always some new village somewhere to conquer, whose children can be stolen and terrorized. The Tharis always have many first generation citizens because reproduction leading to a second generation is so rare. The second generation is almost always thoroughly evil, as like the Hitler Youth, they are indoctrinated from birth and empowered against any parental interference.

The Deserter is a typical product of Tharis culture and consequently, is about as lonely a human being as you can imagine. Any romantic inclinations towards this guy would trigger a mountain of baggage. Not the least of which would be, the time he was forced into "rape duty" and did as he was told. The woman hated him afterwards, and when she became heavy with child, she killed herself. This doesn't have to be explicitly told, but so long as the general trend among the Tharis is explained, it can certainly be alluded to.

Kharosian culture, being based in ancient times on crop fertility rituals, has nothing negative to say about human sexuality. Growth and reproduction are simply part of life. The priesthood is not prohibited from sex, marriage, or raising a family; in fact, large families are considered quite healthy in Kharosian society, same as large acres of crops. The High Priestess, however, has a lot of duties and responsibilities as a leader of her people, and has also progressed farther along the paths of spirituality than her people. "The woman closest to Enlightenment at a given time" is generally selected to be High Priestess, assisted by a certain amount of divination that at least in this universe, tends to be somewhat accurate as far as giving good results in a leader. Potential High Priestesses are trained from birth and consequently, learn the weight of responsibility early. When a High Priestess is chosen she is somewhat alienated from her otherwise eligible peers, and in many respects stands alone afterwards. This is partially by cultural design, as the Kharosians believe that to reach Enlightenment, one must detach from worldly concerns to a large degree. Semi-isolation is seen as a tool for cultivating detachment.

The High Priestess is rather lonely as well, just not so dysfunctionally as The Deserter. She has been trained from a very young age to channel her emotions by talking to the Sun. The Sun never talks back, it's not a god that has any tangible presence in this world, other than shining its rays on crops as our own sun does. Nevertheless the Priesthood spends a lot of time talking and praying to the Sun. Talking to the Sun is how early exposition of The High Priestess' character is handled. Her prayers, uttered aloud, are how we learn what's on her mind, and in many respects how she herself learns what's on her mind. Some people write in journals, she talks to the Sun.

When the High Priestess finally realizes how to help the deeply wounded Tharis prisoners, she also realizes how to transcend her physical body. A further consequence of this, is she can now talk directly to the Sun in the Abyss, and the Sun answers back. This is quite a shock to her. The High Priestesses of ages past did keep records of their experiences, in order to guide future Priestesses, but very little has ever been said about direct communication with the Sun. This is because all Mistresses of Light who passed through this juncture, were raised in a culture of isolation, and thought it rather important to keep this knowledge hidden, since it is fundamental to Enlightenment. The Enlightened speak to the Sun and know what to do with that knowledge. The unenlightened do not, and would probably make dangerous claims on the Sun's behalf. So the High Priestess, like all Mistresses of Light before her, makes the predictable decision of not telling anyone about the experience or recording the event.

The Sun, however, is not a big talker. It's a limited being whose main achievement in the universe has been to self-adjust its heat output to optimize the flourishing of human civilization. Keeping that up is a fair amount of work, not leaving a lot of mental energy for chit-chat. Many of the aescetic tenets of the Kharosian religion are things the Sun itself had to go through, to achieve its self-mastery amongst highly distant, sentient stars. The Sun is a bit lonely and although it firmly believes in generosity and the giving of knowledge to other sentient beings, its emotiveness can be somewhat cold like the vacuum of space that it sits in. Thus the Sun does not speak to The High Priestess anymore after her moment of revelation. It was about as much as the Sun had strength for, or cared to continue with. For the Sun to speak, it has to be really really important.

The High Priestess continues to pray to the Sun. The tenor of the prayer is different. She always had faith that the Sun existed, but now she knows with certainty that it exists and can speak to her. This is on one hand a relief and an inspiration, but on the other a frustration, because now the Sun is not speaking to her. For this reason she starts to reach out to The Deserter for counsel. She has to talk to someone, as her relationship with the Sun has changed. It's just not meeting the needs of her life anymore. The Deserter has been trained in some of the Priestly arts, especially the ones relevant to combat and healing his countrymen. Thus the High Priestess has been spending time with him, to train him, and something vaguely resembling intimacy develops. The intimacy is not acknowledged or consummated until just before their deaths, when they both realize that no matter how lonely, duty-bound, or emotionally scarred they are, they are soon to leave this world and "this is it." Despite their esoteric knowledge, neither one knows for certain if an afterlife exists, so they don't want to leave without expressing the feelings they have for each other. You might call this a "love interest," but it would be more accurate to call it a "friend interest" or a "human being interest," between two people whose circumstances have kept them way too apart from just about everyone.

[wesfreak]

This seems more like a fan-fic to me than an EOMa story, mainly because of the amount of things you just made up, rather than taking from existing information. Granted, there isn't much existing information: The tharis have no racial description and little unit description. Other than the creation of Hydra and the nature of the Tharis empire (they could as easily be much more tribal, with different clans/small countries warring against each other, for example, with the invasion against the Kharos being the attempt of one country to expand it's power base.) You also invented a lot about the Kharosian sun worship: It never says that they worship a sun-god, like the egyptians worshipped Ra. I always thought they worshipped the sun itself, as an object rather than a being.