Features for 0.8

[Sithrandel]

Could you define how pressing 'n' is partial solution. As I think pressing this next button would use the very same function and therefore behave the same.

Easy... for the programme they are 100% the same.

For the user... next button:

Code: Select all

1. Done that one, where is the next unit?
2. Oooh look a shiny Next Unit Button, I'll just try that

With pressing 'n'

Code: Select all

1. Done that one, where is the next unit?
2. Scrolls around map.
3. Clicks on unit, sees it has moved 
4. GOTO 2.

For a regular player who memorises shortcuts obviously this is different. As Wesnoth is a great game I don't think we should force people to lose out on the benefits because they don't want to memorise shortcuts.

I have no idea of the Wesnoth shortcuts. Sure I can look them up, but I don't feel I should have to (except when it helps in adding the standard app menu prefs of course). Rarely do I learn the shortcuts for games. I have enough papers littering my desk already, nor do I have time as my gameplay time is too short.

I still believe they are vital for those who have good memories and become power-users, just don't forget the simple folk

[miyo]

Lots of buttons takes up space... I prefer using hotkeys and having more space to get better overview.

Hotkey configuration can be found under preferences.

- Miyo

[cedric]

just don't forget the simple folk

But don't clutter up the UI with useless and annoying things for a regular user. Remember that 'beginner' is just a transitionnal phase, rather short one.

After all, Wesnoth is not nethack. Two or three keys ('n', <space>? what else?) to easier your life is not that much.

Wesnoth supports themes: let the current one as it is, and if you really want it, consider creating another theme only for beginners.

--
Cedric

[Sithrandel]

Again... the hotkey configuration panel is actually not relevant to the issue of whether or not another means for this would be useful.

Space... that is a huge issue and I would wholeheartedly concur that we don't want to clutter the screen with buttons for ever conceivable command to the point where the map shows only a 2x2 grid

Surely, though, that is where the contextual menu comes in. Placing these in the right click menu would help new users

[Guest]

there is hotkey 'n' which does next_unit

Still this doesnt invalidate my suggestion. I am sorry if I was blunt, which I didn't ment to be. I suggested minor change to UI and you didn't give any argument why it should not be added. I am sorry, but this is a bit rude. I understand this is your project and you can do what ever you like but at least you could give some reasons why you will not implement some function WHEN topic is about suggestions what would like to be added to game.

Auto-Save is there as crash saver, it is not there for you to change your luck or tactic. If you want to save at the beginning of your turn there is always ctrl-s. Losses should be expected and lived with, if you can't live with losses you had in scenario you should start the scenario from scratch.

This isn't completely true. There are cases where losses can't be accepted. I give you a hint, the game ends when thes situations occurs. As you can see there are more uses to auto-save than crash recovery. I cannot see why this should not be implemented because it brings lots of playability. I give you an example. when playing TBS I usually change when I make strategic decision where I may want to revert later. sometime many turns can pass and then I suddenly die. I load the game I saved and play everything basically same way as earlier (wasted time). And ctrl+s isnt really option since there is no way to delete old saves (I like to keep dirs clean and small).

Also some new improvement suggestions if you are willing to consider them.

when important character dies, there could be options like: 1 revert last saved position (not autosave) 2 restart scenario, 3 save replay.

Another one is there could be also load in "Menu"-menu.

[Sithrandel]

Being a beginner is a transitional phase, but also one which needs the most encouragement.

Nor does it follow that when you are no longer a beginner you want keyboard only options. I have been playing the game for only 6 months or so, but I still would not consider myself a beginner

I do not see why these commands cannot also appear in the GUI as menu items.

[Lars]

[quote=miyo]
Lots of buttons takes up space... I prefer using hotkeys and having more space to get better overview.
[/quote]

Take that large area where is end turn button now. divide that area by four. Add 1/4 size next unit button. Now magically you can have
1) 3/4 sized end button or
2) 1/4 empty area as a safeguard for misclicks and 1/2 sized end turn button or
3) two 1/4 sized empty "button slots" and 1/4 end turn button
4) one 1/4 sized empty "button slot" and one safeguard and 1/4 end turn button

And best of all area hasn't changed a bit, and you still can use 'n' shortcut. Now everybody should be happy.

[fmunoz]

The interface is themeable so you could create a ">" button next to the next turn button and ask later someone to bind it to the key 'n'.

[Eponymous-Archon]

Yes, N button is a partial solution, still next button would be good addition and I believe not hard to achieve.

Could you define how pressing 'n' is partial solution. As I think pressing this next button would use the very same function and therefore behave the same.

It's a partial solution because it doesn't use the mouse. If you can do it with a keyboard command, you should be able to do it with the mouse, either with a menu item, a button, or both. Pretty standard interface stuff.

See one of my threads on how to add to the CM. (Dave told me. ) I have added both "next", which is unfortunately called "cycle units", and "undo". Now I hardly ever have to lean forward from my chair and use the keyboard (though that admittedly is faster).

[Eponymous-Archon]

There's a thread around here somewhere about displaying more info automatically, after battle, instead of requiring a mouse-over.

(I'd also like bigger images for battle, but that shouldn't be for 1.0.)

[miyo]

I suggested minor change to UI and you didn't give any argument why it should not be added.

Did I say it should not be added?

I am sorry, but this is a bit rude.

There is thread about Miyo, you can continue this topic in there.

I understand this is your project and you can do what ever you like

This is not my project. Dave is the founder of Wesnoth and main coder.

but at least you could give some reasons why you will not implement some function

Where has it been said that it will not be implemented?

WHEN topic is about suggestions what would like to be added to game.

All suggestions do not need and will not be added. We both have right to comment things as we see best.

Auto-Save is there as crash saver, it is not there for you to change your luck or tactic. If you want to save at the beginning of your turn there is always ctrl-s. Losses should be expected and lived with, if you can't live with losses you had in scenario you should start the scenario from scratch.

This isn't completely true. There are cases where losses can't be accepted. I give you a hint, the game ends when thes situations occurs. As you can see there are more uses to auto-save than crash recovery. I cannot see why this should not be implemented because it brings lots of playability. I give you an example. when playing TBS I usually change when I make strategic decision where I may want to revert later. sometime many turns can pass and then I suddenly die.

If you can't accept losses then you should start the scenario from scratch, I think this is the recommended way in Wesnoth.

I load the game I saved and play everything basically same way as earlier (wasted time).

As luck and random affects the game you usually can not play exactly the same as you did before.

And ctrl+s isnt really option since there is no way to delete old saves (I like to keep dirs clean and small).

You can save with ctrl-s, for now you have to manage your saves with file manager. Managing saves in save/load dialog will most likely be implemented sooner or later.

when important character dies, there could be options like: 1 revert last saved position (not autosave) 2 restart scenario, 3 save replay.

On defeat giving player [load] [restart scenario] [quit] would be nice.

Another one is there could be also load in "Menu"-menu.

As save/load is there to allow continuing game later I don't think load is needed under menu.

- Miyo

[Dave]

Just being able to access a command is different from easy access. I personally feel that the contextual menu is now too short and could have one or two more command. Next / Previous Unit and Undo seem logical. Yes I know these can be added, but I think they could be there by default.

I concur. I have tried to make things easier with a couple of changes:

- added 'next unit', 'undo', and 'redo' to the context menu
- made it so menus will display the shortcut keys next to the menu items, so that users may pick up the hotkeys faster

David

[Eponymous-Archon]

Dave,

Is it possible to have more CM items disappear when they don't apply?

For example, recruit and recall are both there all the time, when obviously they can't be used when your leader isn't in the keep or you lack sufficient funds. (Recall gives you the insufficient-funds warning, but not recruit.)

[Dave]

"next", which is unfortunately called "cycle units"

I have changed the name of this to 'Next unit'.

David

[Dave]

For example, recruit and recall are both there all the time, when obviously they can't be used when your leader isn't in the keep or you lack sufficient funds. (Recall gives you the insufficient-funds warning, but not recruit.)

I don't like the idea of recruit and recall disappearing like this, as the user would have no way of knowing why they can't recruit or recall. This could end up being extremely confusing and frustrating for a new user IMO.

Units that you can't afford in the recruit menu are displayed in red. You might still want to access the recruit menu even if you don't have enough money to afford any unit, so that you can see how much money you will have to save to recruit a certain unit.

David