Idea for Far East Faction

[appleide]

We COULD split them into two factions, a Japanese one and a Chinese one.

But Why would we be in trouble? Its not like we would get sued by the governments or something...

[Disto]

Monks are mostly in Far East but not Japan. In fact, i think we can branch off to three:

-Japan: use some of Seiryu's images, they were good.

-Mongols: this would be mostly do from scratch. Dunno if would fit, we already have the Marauders covering that flavor.

-Chinesse: I think the monks would fit here. There was also something called Warrangdo (the soldier's martial arts, over 4k techniques with the purpose of defeatin your opponent in one move) for flavor. We would ned background on chinesse though.

Mongols are much more of a horse people then the Marauders, they are much more in favour of horse archer and the like. I think they would fit.

[Kafka]

Splitting the faction isn't an option. The point of the faction is to be inspired by Eastern culture, but still fit into wesnoth. If we were to split it, then it would never fit in. It's possible to add in another chinese type unit, and then some mongol and Indian units as well, but i've said b4, Faction Balance. These units should be added later after the faction is tested against other factions and showned to be balanced or unbalanced and in which ways it needs improvements/units.

[Kafka]

Monks are mostly Ok to be precise: bald monks in japan came from india, because boudah was indian. Then next; samurais were in china, japan, and all in the far east countries, but the japanese called them samurai. I don't know how the chinese or other countries named them but samurai is not the correct word to name your soldier with katanas. Even katana is a japanese word but how the chinese called them? Be sure of what you're doing before you name your faction.

Ok, listen to what you are saying before you actually post it. I said the monks were chinese based. Even saying that, i said most of the units are cross cultural. The Samurai are japenese, they didn't exist in other cultures, because they were only called samurai in japan. The fact that you COULD call other warriors who perfored the exact same function in other cultures is irrellevent. Because warriors like this were common of many cultures, i incorporated 3 "samurai" units. The naming system is only for familirity with players. People are more familiar with katana than the chinese word for sword (which i appologize i am not familiar with). Looking back, i probably should have replaced "naginata" with "glaive" just for easy use, but even glaives aren't too well known. Besides, when you get into historical accuracy, half of this doesn't make sence. The fact is, there were man rulers who weren't "emporer" becasue they were just conquerers. I don't care about the relationship of real historic instances, because this isn't historically accurate. This shouldn't be historically accurate, that would defeat the "Fantasy element of Wesnoth.

[Disto]

Splitting the faction isn't an option. The point of the faction is to be inspired by Eastern culture, but still fit into wesnoth. If we were to split it, then it would never fit in. It's possible to add in another chinese type unit, and then some mongol and Indian units as well, but i've said b4, Faction Balance. These units should be added later after the faction is tested against other factions and showned to be balanced or unbalanced and in which ways it needs improvements/units.

If its a faction inspired by Eastern Culture, why can't you make it into a set of factions inspired by Eastern culture.

[Kafka]

Splitting the faction isn't an option. The point of the faction is to be inspired by Eastern culture, but still fit into wesnoth. If we were to split it, then it would never fit in. It's possible to add in another chinese type unit, and then some mongol and Indian units as well, but i've said b4, Faction Balance. These units should be added later after the faction is tested against other factions and showned to be balanced or unbalanced and in which ways it needs improvements/units.

If its a faction inspired by Eastern Culture, why can't you make it into a set of factions inspired by Eastern culture.

I understand what you are saying, but i believe that splitting the faction would mean it would never reach mainstreem wesnoth. Loyalists represent many cultures, they are a mainstreem faction. Wesnoth isn't complicated in nature. It's possible to split the faction, but i think one section might come out on top, leaving the other factions behind, and thus urepresented. Why can't we test out one faction before worrying about multiple ones?

[Disto]

If its a faction inspired by Eastern Culture, why can't you make it into a set of factions inspired by Eastern culture.

I understand what you are saying, but i believe that splitting the faction would mean it would never reach mainstreem wesnoth. Loyalists represent many cultures, they are a mainstreem faction. Wesnoth isn't complicated in nature. It's possible to split the faction, but i think one section might come out on top, leaving the other factions behind, and thus urepresented. Why can't we test out one faction before worrying about multiple ones?

But loyalists are under the rule of one central culture, they are 1 set of people who have trained ogres and ally to mermen, they are just 1 flexible culture, it depends how you display them into the game, if you show them as 3 different countries then 3 different factions should follow it is all about presentation. If you showed them as 1 empire ruling over different cultures there should be 3 different factions in multiplayer, if it just 1 country then they should all be in the same faction but you would have to follow through that in the descriptions. If you want them to get into mainstream then you'll either have to manage to get them included in 1 of the existing campaigns or make a new campaign, which would be of high quality. 1 personally don't have the patience to make a new campaign for the marauders, but once the scenario editor is complete, i probably will make 1.

[appleide]

I must admit though, its a bit hard for me to see Japanese and Chinese in the same faction. They have been fighting for the past millenia, and almost never had alliances (they might have one recently I dont know about... I am more interested in history then modern diplomatic relations).

We want to put Far east into the classical era with the romans and the mauraders, right? So corresponding to that would be the Han Empire in China. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map15ch.htm(I know, its big). Theres a map of that place, consists of everywhere but japan and mongolia and india.

I was wondering about this because a faction with so much variety cannot be balanced, unless its units are underpowered. So I thought maybe either have it as a Japanese army, or a Chinese/korean army...

I dont know.... Too many ideas in my head...

[Kafka]

[quote="appleide"]I must admit though, its a bit hard for me to see Japanese and Chinese in the same faction. They have been fighting for the past millenia, and almost never had alliances (they might have one recently I dont know about... I am more interested in history then modern diplomatic relations).
quote]

To everything you say, I say no. THIS IS NOT HISTORIC! This is Wesnoth. I don't want these guys to be a note like Romans, these will be a WESNOTH faction, not a historic faction.

This faction really doesn't have many units, compared to other wesnoth factions like say, LOYALISTS..... Who don't have underpowered units either.....

[Seiryu]

I must admit though, its a bit hard for me to see Japanese and Chinese in the same faction. They have been fighting for the past millenia, and almost never had alliances (they might have one recently I dont know about... I am more interested in history then modern diplomatic relations).

To everything you say, I say no. THIS IS NOT HISTORIC! This is Wesnoth. I don't want these guys to be a note like Romans, these will be a WESNOTH faction, not a historic faction.

This faction really doesn't have many units, compared to other wesnoth factions like say, LOYALISTS..... Who don't have underpowered units either.....

Listen I didn't meant to be carefull of the history of any asian country but be carefull of the actions you will do to make the faction. I hope you can understand with what I've said.

[Smrgle]

I am doing the art for this. To speed this process along by alot I would like some help. Basicaly I give the 2nd artist what i have done and they color it and make it the appropriate size to match that of the game.

Beleive it or not this would save me loads of time. So this could get out alot faster .

contact me at Archclogen@yahoo.com
I also would like to put up the finished products as we well finish them :-p

take care all, regards,
Smrgle

[Temuchin Khan]

Monks are mostly in Far East but not Japan. In fact, i think we can branch off to three:

-Japan: use some of Seiryu's images, they were good.

-Mongols: this would be mostly do from scratch. Dunno if would fit, we already have the Marauders covering that flavor.

-Chinesse: I think the monks would fit here. There was also something called Warrangdo (the soldier's martial arts, over 4k techniques with the purpose of defeatin your opponent in one move) for flavor. We would ned background on chinesse though.

Mongols are much more of a horse people then the Marauders, they are much more in favour of horse archer and the like. I think they would fit.

They would not fit -- not because they wouldn't add something to the game, but because Wesnoth's game mechanics make the inclusion of Mongols impossible. There is no way, within Wesnoth's limitations, to depict the tactics of steppe nomads, and unless we had true ranged attacks, instead of the "ranged" attack as it is currently done, the impossibility of having Mongols in Battle for Wesnoth will not be alleviated.

I did, however, have ideas for two Chinese-based units:

Conscript Crossbowman (strong ranged (pierce), but only one shot; secondary blade attack for close fighting)
-> Repeater Crossbowman (gains multiple attempts on his ranged attack) -> Elite Crossbowman (gains marksmanship)

Conscript Footman (close pierce attack) -> Fire Lance (gains one-shot ranged fire attack) -> Flame Lance (does more damage, fire attack still just one shot)

Medieval China had some ingenious inventions!

[Kafka]

-Chinesse: I think the monks would fit here. There was also something called Warrangdo (the soldier's martial arts, over 4k techniques with the purpose of defeatin your opponent in one move) for flavor. We would ned background on chinesse though.

Mongols are much more of a horse people then the Marauders, they are much more in favour of horse archer and the like. I think they would fit.[/quote]

They would not fit -- not because they wouldn't add something to the game, but because Wesnoth's game mechanics make the inclusion of Mongols impossible. There is no way, within Wesnoth's limitations, to depict the tactics of steppe nomads, and unless we had true ranged attacks, instead of the "ranged" attack as it is currently done, the impossibility of having Mongols in Battle for Wesnoth will not be alleviated.

I did, however, have ideas for two Chinese-based units:

Conscript Crossbowman (strong ranged (pierce), but only one shot; secondary blade attack for close fighting)
-> Repeater Crossbowman (gains multiple attempts on his ranged attack) -> Elite Crossbowman (gains marksmanship)

Conscript Footman (close pierce attack) -> Fire Lance (gains one-shot ranged fire attack) -> Flame Lance (does more damage, fire attack still just one shot)

Medieval China had some ingenious inventions![/quote]

I think you have a good idea. I was weary to make stats for a crossbowman, or a bowman at all, beause even though it could fit, the faction balance would come into play, and other factions have them. However, it is true that the Chinese were inventive, and way ahead of their time with certain weapons and tactics. There could be a unit with chinese fireworks, or even a wooden fire breathing beast, made by armies as early as the romance era in china. I dunno though, what does everyone think?

[Temuchin Khan]

I think you have a good idea. I was weary to make stats for a crossbowman, or a bowman at all, beause even though it could fit, the faction balance would come into play, and other factions have them. However, it is true that the Chinese were inventive, and way ahead of their time with certain weapons and tactics. There could be a unit with chinese fireworks, or even a wooden fire breathing beast, made by armies as early as the romance era in china. I dunno though, what does everyone think?

I'd be all for something like that. I had another idea, but I suspect the developers would nix it since they don't want any artillery.

Maybe if we make a unit to reflect Chinese inventiveness it should be:

fire lance -> flame lance -> flamethrower

Low health and resistances, devastating fire attack

[Smrgle]

common someone respond to what im saying please.



I am doing the art for this. To speed this process along by alot I would like some help. Basicaly I give the 2nd artist what i have done and they color it and make it the appropriate size to match that of the game.

Beleive it or not this would save me loads of time. So this could get out alot faster .

contact me at Archclogen@yahoo.com
I also would like to put up the finished products as we well finish them :-p

take care all, regards,
Smrgle