Faction: Kedari (Arabian Nights-based)

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 15th, 2005, 1:20 am

How about something like this:

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and plains
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills; costs less upkeep than other units (stores water in its hump)
Seer -> Prophet -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- caster; uses fire spells (gains arms as it advances?)
Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
Guardian -> Warder -> Grenadier -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)
Eunuch Slave -> Eunuch Beaurocrat -> Eunuch Adviser -- has steadfast

Prince -> Sheik -> Sultan -- hero

I know people would like to see branching, but I just don't see how any one of these lines could branch off any of the others!

Post by **turin** » July 15th, 2005, 1:42 am

Looks good, but this line:

Eunuch Slave -> Eunuch Beaurocrat -> Eunuch Adviser -- has steadfast

just cracks me up. I fail to see how any of those units would be good in battle at all. I mean, c'mon, "beaurocrat"?

I'd really like to see the Hashishan description mention the fact that they smoked opium.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 15th, 2005, 5:43 am

Well, the eunuch line was kind of a joke, but the main use for eunuchs in the Ancient and Medieval worlds was actually government service. The Imperial court of China always had a large contingent of eunuchs, for example, and the Byzantine Empire had thousands of them, mostly in the Imperial Beaurocracy. Some government jobs were actually reserved for eunuchs! And some of the eunuchs had latent military skills that they discovered in crisis situations, especially one guy who defeated a Russian fleet with just a handful of outmoded ships and some Greek Fire! Not to mention, one of China's greatest admirals was a eunuch. And the Islamic world, too, had its fair share of them.

unit description for the Eunuch Slave:

"Eunuchs are highly valued for their inability to produce offspring, which theoretically ensures their loyalty to the sultan."

for the Eunuch Beaurocrat and Eunuch Adviser:

"Sometimes the sultans of the desert folk, suspicious that normal men would rise against them, entrust their armies to eunuchs of proven loyalty, even over the objections of more experienced officers."

and for the Hashishan (the name means "Hashish smoker"):

"Addicted to hashish, and promised that if he dies while doing the Mahdi's bidding he will ascend directly to Paradise, the Hashishan is an assasin who fears not death."

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 15th, 2005, 5:32 pm

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and plains
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills; costs less upkeep than other units (stores water in its hump)
Seer -> Prophet -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- caster; uses fire spells (gains arms as it advances?)
Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
Guardian -> Warder -> Grenadier -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)

This seems the most balanced and stable to me. I like it.
Maybe we can find better advancement names for the hashisan.
The Guardian can pass up using fire pots with the excuse of being an elite skirmish infantryman.
The Ifrit may have more arms in their advancements, after all it's a demon aight?.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 15th, 2005, 7:15 pm

I'm taking a break from my paper (mentioned elsewhere) to bring you this message:

There could be at least one branching line:

Horse Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi
-> Sheik -> Sultan

The Guardian line can be a light infantryman and still throw fire pots. I would like to see an Arabian-type faction with grenades, and it would be an interesting twist, but if it has to go it has to go.

The advancement names for the Hashishan were chosen on the basis that the Hashishans were an Ismaili Shiah Muslim sect led by a man with the title of al-Mahdi. But I'm open to other possibilities, if something better can be found.

I'm not wedded to the Eunuch line, but it would be fun to have them in there.

Hmmm....

Desert Lad {levl 0} -> Hashishan -> Elite Hashishan -> Grand Master Hashishan
-> Eunuch Guard -> Eunuch Officer -> Eunuch Marshall

"Many young lads of the desert tribes seek to further their careers in unorthodox ways. Some join the feared sect of Hashishans, others sacrifice their manhood for political gain."

How's that?

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 15th, 2005, 8:37 pm

EDIT: I'm not sure I like having a level 0 Arab unit. Even though I suggested it in an earlier version of this post, I'm changing it back.

Nah, I like my original, funnier, Eunuch line better. So how about this?

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and plains
-> Sheik -> Sultan
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills; costs less upkeep than other units (stores water in its hump)
Seer -> Prophet -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- caster; uses fire spells (gains arms as it advances?)
Desert Lad {level one} -- light infantry
-> Hashishan -> Elite Hashishan -> Grand Master Hashishan -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
-> Eunuch Beaurocrat -> Eunuch Administrator -- light infantry with a slow attack?
-> Guardian -> Warder -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)

Possible commanders in multiplayer would be Sheik, Prophet, or Eunuch Beaurocrat.

So, five level one units and two branching lines. Any objections?

If people prefer the less funny, more military eunuch line, that can also be used.

Also, as far as the idea stage goes, this seems to be coming together. Only problem: do we have any artists? I wish I had the time and the skills, but I have neither.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 16th, 2005, 1:14 am

You want to create somehting that will wipe out the Roman Legions don't you?.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 16th, 2005, 2:04 am

Fine, we could follow suit with the latest Roman idea and have the Desert Lad be "0.5" and have three "1.5" advances: Hashishan, Eunuch, and Guardian, with no 2's or 3's or 4's along those lines. The caster line could be reduced to "Ifrit -> Djinn" with no third level. Camel Rider line could easily be stripped of the lower upkeep. Desert Raider and Seer lines could remain as proposed. Then things would be a little more balanced.

In other words:

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and plains
-> Sheik -> Sultan
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills
Seer -> Prophet -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership
Ifrit -> Djinn -- caster; uses fire spells (gains arms as it advances?)
Desert Lad (lvl "0.5") -- light infantry
-> Hashishan -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
-> Eunuch -- light infantry with slow attack
-> Guardian -- throws "fire pots"

Actually, I could get to like this version best!

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 16th, 2005, 2:50 am

I didn't prod you to change it, it is just that you seemed to be very entusiast

.

I just cooked something on my head.

Temuchin Khan wrote:The Guardian line can be a light infantryman and still throw fire pots. I would like to see an Arabian-type faction with grenades, and it would be an interesting twist, but if it has to go it has to go.

You wanted eunuchs to be light infantry, and Guardian should be a good job for an eunuch so why not merge it?. We would have:

Code: Select all

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi 
              -> Sheik -> Sultan 
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills 
Seer -> Prophet -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership 
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn 
Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack 
Eunuch Guardian -> Eunuch Warder -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)

Eunuchs as special soldiers of the Sultan. However, i always think of Mideast as using lots of light infantry and archers, so we may need to add another tree or two.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 16th, 2005, 2:39 pm

Well, eunuchs as harem guards are their best known function, but as I was saying earlier there were very many eunuchs in government service, and some of these acquired military commands. Could we branch the eunuch tree?

Eunuch Slave (lvl 0) -- plain old light infantry, albeit neutered
-> Eunuch Guardian (throws "fire pots") -> Eunuch Warder (thows "fire pots")
-> Eunuch Official (a former slave who has been promoted) -> Eunuch Beaurocrat (i.e., a civil official who has used his influence at court to get assigned a military command to further his career) (gains leadership or some other ability)

Aside from leadership, what might be a good ability for the alternative Eunuch line?

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 16th, 2005, 3:58 pm

We should have 7-8 units for MP, Mideast had great numbers of soldiers, after all. Some more for a campaign if you want.

The thing that bothers me its the utility. I'm guessing Sheik and Sultan would have leadership, and should be a valuable option against the Spahi and Ghazi.

So how an Eunuch official could be viable against a cavalry with leadership ( it would be the first time of a cavalrymen having leadership too i think )?.

And, for a level 0 or 0.5 we might want to stick to Desert Lad, so they could branch into something more diverse, maybe the infantry and archers.

Post by **Jetrel** » July 16th, 2005, 7:50 pm

I'd suggest that rather than using generic names, change:

seer-prophet-rasul
to
sufi-dervish-rasul

Though I'm only guessing at what rasul means, if it means anything like prophet, it would fit. And these guys could have a holy attack - they'd be the faction's white mage, with which there is nothing wrong, because they basically are holy men.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 16th, 2005, 9:45 pm

Good idea, Jetryl! Rasul, indeed, is the Arabic word for "Prophet," the same word used to describe the status of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad in the Qur'an. And I don't know why I never thought of giving the Prophet line a holy attack! They should still have healing and leadership, though. Or at least healing.

Not that I know Arabic, but I have long been fascinated by Islam (even read a translation of the Qur'an) and I've picked up a few things.

So:

Sufi -> Dervish -> Rasul

Desert Lad (lvl 0)
-> Eunuch Guardian (lvl 1) (throws "fire pots") -> Eunuch Warder (lvl 2) (throws "fire pots") or Eunuch Beaurocrat (lvl 2) (loses "fire pots"; however, when he is in command of an army, he always gets at least 1 gold per turn, even if he has no villages, since the dominant regime has a naive faith in his loyalty and funnels him the cash)
-> Light Footman (lvl 1) -> Janissary (lvl 2) -> Elite Janissary (lvl 3)
-> Light Bowman (lvl 1) -> Mameluke (lvl 2) -> Elite Mameluke (lvl 3)

I have changed the names of the level 1 infantry and archer to avoid possible confusion. We don't have to have level 3's on the Desert Lad line, but in case people want them there are some names.

But are there any talented artists willing to pick up on this faction? I am exited about Azhur's idea of an Arabian faction, but I don't have the skills to draw them.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » July 16th, 2005, 10:45 pm

One more thought -- the Hashishan could also advance from the Desert Lad, as I suggested earlier.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 16th, 2005, 11:08 pm

How about:

Code: Select all

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi 
              -> Sheik -> Sultan 
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills 
Sufi -> Dervish -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership 
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn 
Desert Lad (lvl0) -> Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack 
                  -> Eunuch Guardian -> Eunuch Warder -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)
Light Footman -> Janissary -> Elite Janissary
Light Bowman -> Mameluke -> Elite Mameluke

The Desert Lads should have low XP requirement and would be easy to advance them with a Sufi on healing. I chose these setup because i wanted to use your flavor of "Many young lads of the desert tribes seek to further their careers in unorthodox ways. Some join the feared sect of Hashishans, others sacrifice their manhood for political gain."

The Warder could have steadfast or even skirmisher to make him enough powerful to top at lvl2.

We could use Immortal instead of Elite, you know, the name of the Persian king's special guard. Then we would have Janissary Immortal and Mameluke Immortal.