New Undead themed music

[mctom]

Hello everyone,

On Wesnoth Discord channel I was greeted warmly when I offered to compose some new music for Wesnoth. Someone said there isn't enough undead music so I downloaded Musescore and got to work.

After a month of working on it, on and off, I have composed around 2 minutes that I'm quite happy with, and another minute of ideas that I didn't include in my upload.

The piece doesn't have a title yet, and it's generally too short (at least compared to the existing ones). My effort goes to composition as of now, so the mix is off here and there, some samples ought to be replaced with something better (cymbals mostly), and mastering is a problem for future me.

I'm well prepared for criticism and suggestions. Thanks for all the input!

[Saizo-Luz]

Man! That's amazing! Very dark, looming, ominous, menacing, epic and majestic at the same time!
It's like I can see a powerful and wrathful necromancer comanding his legions! I can also picture a fearless hero elegantly fighting dark forces!
I feel tempted to replace Zedarian_Theme with this one in my campaign! The cello part (or viola, or other instrument... I don't know... ) it's very good!

I'm a musician at church (the melodies are quite easy and simple), but I don't know anything about composition. Still, I really think this one turned out great! I'm kind of a melody fanatic – I really enjoy the classical ones from the Baroque period. It's glorious!

Excellent work, man! Keep it up!

[mctom]

Hey Saizo-Luz!
Thanks a lot for feedback. The original idea was to call this piece "Lich summoning the army", and each section was meant to symbolize undead races: ghosts, skeletons and so on. That didn't work at all so I went freestyle with my ideas that pop into my head in the shower. But as you may have noticed, xylophone is still present, a leftover from my skeleton theme.

The first melody after the intro is led by cellos then joined by horns. At 1:20 the violin solo begins. Not sure which one you were referring to.

I have no musical education apart from the basics in primary school (they teach us reading and writing sheet music in Poland), and piano lessons from my grandpa when I was a kid. I mostly played drums in my youth and screwed around with Fruity Loops in college, but nothing serious.
This is my first time writing classical music piece and I had to learn a ton about music theory to even begin writing down my ideas in MuseScore.

[Saizo-Luz]

At 1:20 the violin solo begins. Not sure which one you were referring to.

Hmm... that's quite a low sound for a violin. I'm used to hearing the violin with a high-pitched sound, and the lower tones are usually left to the viola and cello.

[mctom]

That's the lowest a violin can do. It was inspired by Saint-Saens' Danse Macabre which has a low pitched violin solo.
In fact, the solo is in key F# and was supposed to end with this note, but the lowest a violin can do is G.

[Spannerbag]

Great work and a solid start.

IMHO fits well with existing music and although intended as a undead theme would work well for other encounters too (this is a good thing ).

As it's still a work in progress I won't drill down into detail but a couple of things did strike me right from the start:

• Last 15 seconds is an abrupt change and (to me, maybe I'm weird) seemed overly lighthearted/cheerful.
  Wasn't aware of the triple time until this point when I was reminded of a waltz!
  I suspect you wanted to inject contrast - which is fine - but it conjured a change of mood in me.
  That last 15 seconds melody fragment showed promise as a basis for a separate melody - maybe Skeleton Waltz or somesuch?
• String solo from around 1:20 is a nice change - could you make it even more mournful?
  It's good as it is, but maybe you could slide into more minor keys and gradually climb up the scale (and even maybe slow down - not sure) throughout the solo? Of course it's your work and it depends on what you want to achieve. You could even experiment with a little bit of disharmony?
• Depending on the effect you want, you could even start your melody at around 00:13 where the drums kick in?

On first hearing the string introduction (up to 00:13) made me think of "something gathering/preparing".

Next hearing:

• Intro=gathering clouds.
• Main theme=storm arrives with a crash of thunder and lightning.
  Heavy rain pours down, everyone beneath rushes to shelter.
• String solo=folk looking out of their windows at the storm and waiting for it to pass.
• Last 15 seconds=clouds suddenly clear and the sun comes out.

I noted you mentioned giving each undead category their own instrument(s)/signature tune, I like this sort of thing (though I admit I can't do it myself).
Xylophone/glockenspiel for skeletons makes sense.
Maybe your string solo could be for ghosts? A sort of string based infernal counterpoint to a celestial choir effect?
For corpse undead something more "tangible"; lower register and lacking the sharp edges of the skeletal melody and the insubstantial/ethereal feel of ghosts.
Not sure which actual instruments would work best... bass trombone, french horn, string bass etc.?

One thing I might add is that you don't need (IMHO) to use all your ideas in a single music file.
Reverting back to suble variants of an earlier theme works really well (for me anyway).

So, to extend your melody without having to fill it all with completely new content you could maybe structure it, for example like this:

1. Intro (something happening/gathering).
2. Main theme first play, without any counterpoint (necromancer's theme?).
3. Corpse theme.
4. Main theme second play with corpse counterpoint.
5. Skeleton theme.
6. Main theme with corpse and skeleton counterpoint.
7. Ghost theme.
8. Main theme with all 3 counterpoints (climax of melody).
9. Outro as main theme diminishes and counterpoints left to slowly die (or just end with a bang at viii).

All that said I couldn't do what you did and haven't got a clue really, so feel to ignore any or all of my witterings!

Hope this helps.
Great work, looking forward to hearing more!
Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[mctom]

Thanks a lot for your thorough analysis and comment, Spannerbag, much appreciated!

I admit I am a master of inventing new melodies and moods that don't fit each other. I got seriously stuck after writing that violin solo and couldn't come up with anything that would work right after that. Indeed, the change of mood is drastic here, and that was my third attempt to escape that solo.

The original idea was something like this:
i. Intro, a guard manning a watch tower spots something in the distance and with a crude optical instrument he confirms it's an undead army.
ii. The horde grows in the horizon as it approaches the town, the music gets more intense. That's the "main theme".
iii. Unsettling, slow melody, fortissimo trombone, militaristic drums kick in. This represents the Lich being spotted among his men. Presumably a known and feared character.
At this point I wanted to extend this section and add ghost and skeleton themes, but they sucked.
iv. Violin solo, a Lich theme, from his own perspective. Saddened by lack of understanding, deprived of humanity and denied acceptance, he follows the path of destruction and conquest as his last resort to make his existence meaningful.
I wanted to portray him as a good, but misunderstood character, so adding hints of wickedness wouldn't fit here.

Perhaps it may be beneficial to my creative process to draft a little plan. Let's see..
iv. The townspeople prepare for battle (Reprise of the main theme, slightly changed and more vigorous)
v. The theme swells into a clash of the armies. This could be a good moment for a showcase of the attacking force. Ghosts (violin arpeggios? hmm), skeletons (xylophone), spellcasters (cymbals), unless I figure out how do I compose bats. In between, struggling humans (choirs), that underline epic proportions of the battle.
vi. The final theme (which is actually already composed), a different key, sounds like dawn under a night long battle. Someone's victorious, but who exactly, is left to the listener's imagination. Someone on Discord described it as decadent IIRC, I think it can be both interpreted as a bitter victory of humans, or peace of Lich's mind.
vii. Final wham sounding like the gateway to a sequel.

Anyway, thanks again for your input. You convinced me to abandon the ideas that didn't work rather than trying to make them fit somehow. After all, if this composition gets accepted I won't hesitate writing more spooky songs.
Perhaps with this outline I'll be able to focus on ideas that might actually work.

[Saizo-Luz]

The battlecry music by ancestral is kind of this style. It's not weird at all! It's like a violent and heroic battle that has calm parts in the middle. I thought the ending was good, to finish the melody or start another period right after.

[Spannerbag]

Thanks a lot for your thorough analysis and comment, Spannerbag, much appreciated!

Glad to help, your work is very impressive and I enjoyed listening to it!

I admit I am a master of inventing new melodies and moods that don't fit each other. ...

Heh, I have similar sorts of trouble with my campaigns...

The original idea was something like this:
i. Intro, a guard manning a watch tower spots something in the distance...

Works for me.

Perhaps it may be beneficial to my creative process to draft a little plan. Let's see...

If it helps I have a few random suggestions that I hope might prompt new creative connections/ideas for you (or not).

The "themes" for various elements of the battle don't need, IMHO, to be fully fledged melodies in their own right.
If you've ever heard Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds there are short fragments, some just musical sound effects, for various narrative elements/occurrences (at least, that is what I hear anyway).

For ghosts I was envisaging something like: begin with an agelic choral melody made by human voices not singing in words but vocalising/vocalizing an ethereal sound.
Either leave the sound as human voice or change to strings.
Make the vocalisations more evil/sad (minor keys, descending tones maybe etc. - you'll know how to do this far better than me).
Doesn't have to be much more than a recognisable snippet.
Basically I'm thinking of something that sounds like an angelic choir's evil twin.

(I realise I'm repeating myself below but I think it may allow you to get more out of your existing work.)
If you embellish your main theme and introduce variation to an already familiar melody it adds something each time - at least I quite like this sort of style but everyone has their own tastes and preferences.
I'm hoping this also means less work for you whilst extending the duration of your music.
E.g. at Christmas I enjoy hearing various carols sung with different and multiple counterpoint melodies, each counterpoint played independently alongside the main theme then gradually all are subsequently added and still all fit together.

All that said, I guess which way the music takes you depends on the story you want to tell?

I think what you have is a great basis for a strong addition to the Wesnoth music collection.
IMHAUO (In My Humble And Uninformed Opinion) I'm not sure you need to add huge amounts of additional original content.
Some, yes - but your existing ideas can be fleshed out and varied (although I don't know if that's more creative effort for you than adding totally new melodies).

As always I'm hoping my ramblings will foster new thoughts and directions, so feel free to ignore or do the opposite of what I think might be a good idea if that helps!

Anyway, thanks again for your input. You convinced me to abandon the ideas that didn't work rather than trying to make them fit somehow. After all, if this composition gets accepted I won't hesitate writing more spooky songs.
Perhaps with this outline I'll be able to focus on ideas that might actually work.

Hope so!
Good luck and if you want feedback on anything there are many people here who are more than happy to read/listen and provide hopefully helpful feedback.


Keep up the good work!
Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[mctom]

Hell yeah, finally! This works for me!

I escaped the violin solo with battle theme. Spellcasters enter with a majestic version of the main theme, then followed by ghosts. Then I realized I've spent 3 hours writing some 20 seconds of music, so the rest will follow some other time.

Thanks again for inspiration, both of you.

[Spannerbag]

Hell yeah, finally! This works for me!

EDIT: forgot to mention your latest mp3!
Yeah, fantastic epic feel - great snippet, love to hear more!
Are you wanting to give the impression of the cymbals and strings/vocals opposing each other?

...Then I realized I've spent 3 hours writing some 20 seconds of music, so the rest will follow some other time.

Yeah, creating stuff can be slow and hard going at times: 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration to paraphrase Thomas Edison.

FWIW I can spend many hours (often over several days) coding/testing to try and get something exactly right... then I'll have a "good idea" that changes everything.
Discarded random code and half formed ideas litter various forgotten silos lurking amongst the wreckage of what I laughingly call my creative process...

Like you I'm currently bogged down wading through mud; in my case learning - when I have the time - lua (at least as far as relates to WML) to try and craft a custom micro ai (another "good idea" ).
I often get stuck because there are so many factors to fit together, many of which are new to me (especially lua's syntax; I've read the documentation but am obviously too stupid to absorb and intergrate all the detail).

So hang in there - things can go slowly sometimes and fly ahead at other times.

Thanks again for inspiration, both of you.

You're very welcome!
If you ever fancy a change of pace (or can't sleep), try this.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[mctom]

Well, I'm not going to cling to all that symbolism too hard. It was supposed to suggest a general direction, not determine every detail in the outcome.

Cymbals were inspired by spellcasters and I think they work okay. Violin arpeggio or whatever it's called, together with swelling female choir, works nice to symbolize ghosts. However I may change that violin part because I'm not convinced this is the best I could do.

I have also decided to be happy with length of 3 minutes or above, and with that in mind I'm really close to finishing this piece. Another month and it should be ready for mixing.

Ah, I know very well what perfectionism feels like, similarly to having more ideas than time to try them all. As my age progressed I learned to make hard decisions and to not let myself pursue every idea I have, just those I know I am able to complete and only when potential benefit is worth the time.

I'm not fond of Lua, but thanks. It's an incredibly inefficient language, and in my spare time I very much prefer flexing my mediocre C skills. However I can fully understand why it was chosen for Wesnoth content.
I'm quite good at designing algorithms but I have troubles recalling small details, such as language syntax or function names. Now with AI being able to serve me answers to C related questions without ads, paywalls, cookies consent and newsletter subscription poop-ups, it's generally much faster to find good answers for my questions. As long as I am able to judge their validity for myself, which fortunately I still can. duck.ai is a nice gateway to some AI engines that need no registration nonsense.

In the future, if you have a good idea how to improve something in your current work, I suggest the following compromise: Make sure this new feature will be easy to incorporate in your work, but stick to the original plan for the time being. Once you reach your original goal, then work on the extra feature, if you still feel like it.

[Spannerbag]

I have also decided to be happy with length of 3 minutes or above, and with that in mind I'm really close to finishing this piece. Another month and it should be ready for mixing.

Hope so - looking forward to hearing it!

Ah, I know very well what perfectionism feels like, similarly to having more ideas than time to try them all.

Seconded!
I have upmteen campaigns (all significantly different in concept and gameplay) floating around in my head and yes, I have to either discard some or incorporate their shrunken essence into others...

As my age progressed I learned to make hard decisions and to not let myself pursue every idea I have, just those I know I am able to complete and only when potential benefit is worth the time.

At least you have the insight to recognise which ideas are worth pursuing, I kinda wander off and see where imagination takes me (and it takes me to some very weird but fruitful areas).
I have loads to still do on the LSB update and it's horribly slow for various reasons.
I have another campaign that's been 65% complete for years and hasn't been touched for well over a year.
(That one is actually my preferred campaign; but I thought I'd finish this current batch of work by last Christmas absolute latest then rl got in the way ).

I'm not fond of Lua, but thanks.

Yikes! That was a joke - didn't think you'd actually read it!
I tried and fell aszzzzzleep...

...I have troubles recalling small details, such as language syntax or function names...

...or birthdays, appointments, what I was doing 30 seconds ago... um, what was I saying?

...Now with AI being able to serve me answers to C related questions without ads, paywalls, cookies consent and newsletter subscription poop-ups, it's generally much faster to find good answers for my questions. As long as I am able to judge their validity for myself, which fortunately I still can. duck.ai is a nice gateway to some AI engines that need no registration nonsense.

Heh, I'm a luddite and my only development tools are notepad, a freeware graphics editor and wesnoth itself.
S'pose I should join the 20th 21st century...

In the future, if you have a good idea how to improve something in your current work, I suggest the following compromise: Make sure this new feature will be easy to incorporate in your work, but stick to the original plan for the time being. Once you reach your original goal, then work on the extra feature, if you still feel like it.

Good advice.
I often underestimate the difficulty of retrofitting stuff.

Good luck with the composition!

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag