Winds of Fate

[Celtic_Minstrel]

So because you changed your mind you think it's okay to confuse readers who come to this thread later? You could've just struck it out instead of deleting it.

[Gothyoba]

Well, I admit it was a very bad way to handle that. Sorry about it. I can’t really undo it now. What I was saying is Aspirant level’s difficulty is far too low compared to the rest and is essentially trivial, which might be less necessary given the new TSG Re-Revision leading to less need for such easy campaigns.
I said a bit more than that but that’s my main point. I currently disagree with this, though I think this a bit confusing to new players, who wouldn’t expect a hard campaign to have such an easy difficulty. I think this a more general problem. It’s hard to tell by a new player if a hard campaign on a lower difficulty is easier or harder than a novice campaign at a high difficulty. But I don’t think the difficulty itself should be changed. I did notice some earlier proposals to reduce the number of yetis on Aspirant difficulty and I personally think it shouldn’t get easier either. It is already quite easy, and the yetis aren’t very hard on Aspirant difficulty. But maybe others disagree. I am quite biased myself. In general, allowing a large variety of difficulties for campaigns seems like a good thing.

[Lord-Knightmare]

I believe it is beneficial for campaigns to have a "Story Mode" difficulty to allow the "story-enjoyers" player segmentation to experience a campaign fully and not be forced to "debug" their way through when scenarios become too much.

[SanDonk]

I did not like much this campaign (except for the amazing last scenario), in fact one of the least among mainline. I second the criticism of others regarding the costs of recalls, especially lvl3 units. I have seen, it was thoroughly discussed over previous posts, but I will share my personal experience:
1/ Except for 2 Inferno Drakes in Overlook scenario (high starting gold and strong enemy) and 1 Flameheart in the very final mission, I did not recall any other lvl3 unit for the entire campaign due to their costs.
2/ This took away the natural incentives for keeping my top veterans alive as everything that progresses to lvl3 is already useless and should be sacrificed the same scenario it evolved as a sturdy cannon fodder as it will not be recalled again.
3/ This created an unique (but rather boring and unnatural) playstyle, where I relied mostly on lvl1 and lvl2 high xp recalls, which can tank a lot of damage to nearly kill them and then evolve to instantly replenish their 60-80 hp instantly only to be sacrificed as a sturdy bait immediately after.
4/ In addition to that, the campaign also offers enough heroes/starting units (including lvl4 leader with 6 hits) to do most of the main job and cleanse most of the map relatively effortlessly as sturdy lvl3 cannon fodder tanks the damage with zero regard to its survival (for interest: Gorlak did 2 AMLAs and Resha 1)
5/ In conclusion I found the campaign very easy even on hard difficulty (did not do "nightmare" as I was afraid of getting stuck on officially a hard campaign).

I will post a scenario-by-scenario feedback to the relevant forum, but wanted to share my feedback in general first.

As a solution I would suggest (in addition to the amendment of recall costs, which is already being discussed) increasing the starting gold, while simultaneously making the enemies more powerful and also having more gold and potential allies (Karron in Reclamation or Landfall) weaker. It should help to make the battles a little bit more large-scale. The current feeling of the campaign was mostly “let's one-shot a bunch of fragile enemies with a meat-shielded lvl4 superhero”.

I wish you good luck with the campaign and do not intend to offend anyone. I am happy, there are finally drakes for the first time in mainline and see a great potential.

[name]

1/ Except for 2 Inferno Drakes in Overlook scenario (high starting gold and strong enemy) and 1 Flameheart in the very final mission, I did not recall any other lvl3 unit for the entire campaign due to their costs.
2/ This took away the natural incentives for keeping my top veterans alive as everything that progresses to lvl3 is already useless and should be sacrificed the same scenario it evolved as a sturdy cannon fodder as it will not be recalled again.

Yeah, I made a huge mistake with the level 3 recall costs. The level 3s were meant to be of equal gold value to the level 1 and 2 units, so that as you acquired these elite units you would use them as shock troops or special forces, alongside the more ordinary units which provide cheaper zone of control and hit points recovery.

The level 3 recall costs are perhaps as much as 50% more expensive than they should be. So they will be much lower in 1.20.

I relied mostly on lvl1 and lvl2 high xp recalls, which can tank a lot of damage to nearly kill them and then evolve to instantly replenish their 60-80 hp instantly only to be sacrificed as a sturdy bait immediately after.

Yeah, the experience points / proximity to the next level needs to be reflected in the recall costs also.

It should help to make the battles a little bit more large-scale. The current feeling of the campaign was mostly “let's one-shot a bunch of fragile enemies with a meat-shielded lvl4 superhero”.

I totally agree. At the time this campaign was being re-developed for mainline there was a fad going to try and remake every wesnoth campaign into some kind of RPG, along with a lot of social media negativity against large battles (often derided as "MUBs") in mainline campaigns. So there was pressure to focus on small battles and a few powerful player hero units (though thankfully we got to keep the final battle large scale). Now that the RPG fad seems to be running out of steam, I think we can have some larger battles (more gold on both sides) in this campaign.

[SanDonk]

Hi, thank you for replying back. I know, you already discussed these recall costs on previous pages, but I do not know your conclusion and wanted to share my play style feedback, how I navigated around it. Hope it helps. I also already shared my scenario-by-scenario feedback to the relevant forum, so you can check it there.

[Traumflug]

A couple of general remarks to this campaign.

Well done naming this difficulty level Nightmare. It IS a nightmare. Prepare for fighting with almost no recalls, starting over scenarios 2, 3, 5 times until you've found a working strategy. There's no room for mistakes, in most scenarios finding the right strategy is crucial.

I like most scenarios having no turn limit. This comes with no Gold carry over, though, so prepare to play with ludicrous Starting Gold like 60. Not enough to recall a single level 3 unit.

On top of all this, recalling higher level units costs significantly more Gold than the 20 Gold in other campaigns. This means the (for me) usual strategy to recall a number of level 3 units to fend off the initial wave of enemies no longer works.

The latter stretches the term "playing" quite a bit. It's no longer moving units around and enjoying fights against enemies. It's trying over and over again until a strategy and sometimes just a set of individual unit placements is found which tricks the AI into doing not too much damage. Some scenarios took me days to get onto the path of victory.

[Traumflug]

Scenario 1: The Hunt

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Working around these level 1 Stymphalians, which get into the way all the time. As the walkthrough writes, this scenario is about farming XP. Which means killing preferably level 2 ones.

Nevertheless it worked out reasonably. 7 level ups with zero losses. I tried with only level 2 kills, this isn't possible.

This scenario already shows how asthmatic Drakes are. A meager 30% hit chance is the norm in this campaign. Exploiting exceptions from that norm is crucial part of the strategy in some campaigns.

The walkthrough describes an XP farming spot on the east shore of the island. There is indeed more prey activity there. I tried, but had no chance to get there, too many enemies in the way.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Not visible in the replay, a whole lot of try and error happened already. 2 scenario restarts to try with different general directions of movement. Also lots of turn restarts to avoid unit losses. That's why there are some attacks with already badly damaged unit and also, why I walk away from seemingly easy kills. I tried, something worked out unfavorably later.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 2: Reclamation

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

One has to know or find out the trick, else it can't be won.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Finding a way to not be overwhelmed by the two northern Orcs. This is one of the scenarios with just 60 starting Gold, so recruiting/recalling is limited to just one or two units.

The Trick:

The trick is to send a single unit across the inner sea to the village at 19,14. See turn 4 & 5. Then the north-western Orcs send a couple of units to catch this invader, so fewer Orcs head to the South. That's a small but crucial advantage to hold the south-western keep with just a few units and get rid of the south-eastern leader.

Also make sure to seize as many villages as possible. Two of the Orc leaders get 4 Gold per village kept, so every village makes a distinction.

Surviving reasonably healthy until Karron arrives in turn 7 wins the scenario. She arrives with plenty of Gold and gets rid of the north-eastern leader rather quickly. A couple of turns later she even reaches the scenario objectives on her own, luckily without killing that Orc leader before fully capturing him.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Within the limits of this whole campaign it's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Next to lots of turn repetitions, because Orcs killed one of my units, a lot of scenario restarts. No strategy I could think of appeared to work. Until I watched a replay from the forum here in my desperation, which showed me the trick described above. Small strategy change, big impact, suddenly it wasn't that hard.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 3: The Contention

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4

This is by far the easiest scenario of this campaign. AI has only a bit more income per village, not enough to compensate its limitations.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

No real challenges. It's a good training ground for basic tactics and for learning which caste is good at doing what. My favorite turned out to be Drake Thrashers / Drake Enforcers (better than Drake Arbiters).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

None beyond the occasional turn restart, because my first plan of movements didn't work out.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 4: Journey

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Again a scenario with just 60 Starting Gold, allowing only two recalls and another one or two later. On top only 3 starting units, so one has to fight the whole scenario with just 6 or 7 units. Tough, there is no room for mistakes.

Tricks to Win:

• Send Resha to the North as fast as possible, to make allies with the Naga leader. This way Nagas sends no units to the South, fighting more against northern Mermen. This keeps them at bay much better.

• Early on, don't run for the south-eastern leader as fast as possible. Instead, build a (small) defense line in that direction, still on land. This lures that leader out of his keep, see turn 2 in the replay. You kill the southern Mermen leader not only much faster, but also with taking much less damage. Which is the deciding distinction to hold these 5 villages not only until turn 16, but for all 18 turns.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Within the limits of this whole campaign it's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Once more I had to start over several times and eventually watch a replay posted here in the forum to find the right strategy. Also the occasional turn restart, because my first plan of movements didn't work out.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 5: Threshold

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

This scenario is surprisingly easy. Maybe it's only on difficulty Nightmare, but almost all the Humans sooner or later die in this scenario while fighting Monsters. Which means, just defend that south-western peninsula until they're gone.

Important for future scenarios: keep these Saurian Augurs alive, level them up to Soothsayers -> Saurian Seers. Their curing and healing abilities are much needed in the final scenario. They also damage 17x3 Magic at night, more than level 2 Drakes. Luckily, the remaining Humans on the peninsula only kill Saurian Skirmishers on the first turn, before you can chime in. Skirmishers are just a nice-to-have.

My strategy was simple and worked on the first try: there is no turn limit, so no hurry. Defend the peninsula, then kill Monster after Monster until all units are leveled up to the maximum. Only then capture the last village.

Looking at the replay, I still fought these boats approaching the peninsula at turn 5 too hard, almost losing units. Waiting at a distance from the shore should work better. Mermen have a much worse defense on land and boats can't follow at all.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Within the limits of this whole campaign it's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

None beyond the occasional turn restart, because my first plan of movements didn't work out.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 6: Landfall

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

At least 120 Starting Gold here, enough for more than one recruit/recall.

This is another scenario where one has to start over again and again until one finds that sweet spot of strategy which tricks AI enough to make success possible. Everything else fails, sometimes only after hours of playing. For example, on one try, Karron (an AI operated ally in this scenario) stormed into the Human's keep so aggressively that he got surrounded and essentially killed himself. In other tries Gorlack, now a level 4 Drake, defended so well that he killed Cavalrymen during defense. Result: because of virtually unlimited Human troops, one Cavalryman after another came in, eventually killing Gorlack.

Also one of the scenarios where I couldn't keep my objective to not lose a unit. One or two kills of the own are unavoidable.

Tricks to Win:

• Call in reinforcements not before turn 5. The Human keep should be almost empty. Karron acts too aggressively, risking to be surrounded and killed by remaining Humans there.

• Right at the beginning, send Resha and perhaps another unit to this strip of water in the West. Humans (except their ships) can't follow into deep water. Nevertheless these two units lure away several Cavalrymen. Also, most of the remaining Human troops can't decide where to attack then, so they stay at the map's center. This is key for success, then one can kill Humans in small groups.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

OK, it's Nightmare difficulty. Maybe nightmares aren't expected to be a joy

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Humans being able to recruit more than a full keep per turn not only looks unfair, it also makes the initial wave too big.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Once more lots of scenario restarts to try different strategies. Up to the point where I watched an earlier replay out of frustration. Aside from that the occasional turn restart, because my first plan of movements didn't work out.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 7: Harvest

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

This time I consider it my mistake to have restarted the scenario multiple times. On the first try I started to fight right away, which doesn't work, eventually one gets overwhelmed by enemies.

It took until the third try until I understood what the walkthrough really means: initially you can walk in wherever you wish, nobody holds you back from anything. Start fighting only when everything is well prepared, there is no turn limit.

Still the walkthrough is a bit funny here. It recommends to recall like 10 units. Not possible with 120 Starting Gold. But it's a good hint on how to proceed.

Strategy to Win:

• Don't care about Leopards, Woses will later take care of them.

• Don't care about the Mermaid either. She has sufficient Gold, but only one spot in her keep, so she can't be a serious threat.

• Also leave Woses alone. One had to kill the whole keep at once to get away without losing own units. Not within reach.

• What to actually do? Send Gorlack to his designated keep and recall appropriate units to safely kill Salennea in one turn. Position these units around her. Remaining units should go right inside the western elvish keep, in order to kill Vonel at once. If you can, also recall a second Saurian Seer (healer) and more Drake Burners (Woses are made of wood and don't like fire).

• Once everything is positioned, do these two kills. Then the fighting starts.

• Fight and retreat to the West, where you came from, behind the bridge. Burn at least one field of forest while doing so, to ignite the forest. This helps a lot later.

• Defend at the western shore of the river. Woses in the water jumps your hit chance from 30% to 80%, which is crucial for success.

• Everything else is pretty straightforward. Later on, capturing villages with a green flag is important, the Woses get 4 Gold per turn for each of them.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Within the limits of this whole campaign it's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

As said above, it took me a while to get the ides. Still occasional turn restarts, because my first plan of movements didn't work out.

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[Traumflug]

Scenario 8: Overlook

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Version 1.18.4, Biased RNG (experimental), difficulty Ancestor (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

TBH, too much text in this campaign. Didn't follow the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

This is another scenario where one has to try one strategy after another, until one is found which tricks the KI enough to allow winning the scenario.

Strategy to Win:

• Key element is to get Elves and Undead in contact to each other. Both prefer to fight the other over fighting Drakes.

• Note there are a couple of fields with light, e.g. 20,19 or 27,20. Drakes are lawful and very strong on such fields, so these fields are excellent spots for defense. Also take advantage of the fact that your hit probability jumps from 30% to 80% if your enemy is in water or a swamp.

• What you recall probably doesn't matter much, as long as these units have enough HP to withstand an Elvish attack or two.

• Don't spend time on holding back of fighting Elves. Elvish Riders are very fast, even inside the cave (normally riders can barely move inside caves).

• Use Zedrix and Resha to lure Undead to the East. Most other Units lure to the West. Many Undead can't decide where to go and choose the middle, where Elves pour in. This is what you want.

• Open the most western gate (18,12) as soon as possible. The most western one, because it's also the farthest one, giving the highest chance for contact between Elves and Undead before Elves make contact with Drakes.

• Attack the Ancient Lich as soon as possible, with any unit. Resha is fine for that, because she's fast. Instead of counterattacking, the Lich will offer to make allies. Accept that, then the remaining part is trivial. Lich Monsters fight Elves and vice versa, your Drakes can walk out undisturbed.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

It's too much about try-and-error, skills play almost no role.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Currently no idea on how to make it less try-and-error. I think at least Elvish riders shouldn't be faster than Drakes in a cave.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

As described, this scenario was about starting over and over again, until KI left a weak spot.

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