Afterlife Rated 1.18 Statistics

[dwarftough]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. And if anyone has more to say, welcome to carry on.

I've been thinking about unit stats for a while, but right now I want to bring some more info about another aspect, kinda overlooked - the map, particularly, the randomized one.

On the left side of the image I filled with lava those areas that are potentially randomized. Each of those hexes is randomized with 20% chance. As you can see, the guaranteed features are pretty limited: the castle, the 3 villages, some flat terrain, one mountain and one forest.

So, what would you guys think about an Afterlife map, which features should it have or not have for more balance? I was thinking about giving some guaranteed oasis maybe for easier poison healing for dwarf. Also maybe there should less randomized hexes, or some other things? Would be glad to hear your thoughts on that

[Bad_tactics]

Looks good. At least two guaranteed oasis hexes can be decent to help aid dwarves. They will still struggle against a team of ghouls and the heavy hitting adepts though.

[blizz]

limit the number of trees. So elves dont have advantage

[dwarftough]

Regarding P2 advantage, a possible way to account for it might be a slight change in the rating formula. Right now if ratings are equal, the chance to win for both sides is assumed to be 0.5. To account for 2-3% of P2 advantage, we can modify the rating formula so that the probability of winning for equal rated opponents would be 0.47-0.48 for P1 and 0.52-0.53 for P2 (which for our standard Elo basically means just implying 14-20 points of extra rating for P2). Although the effect of this change is hardly to be any noticeable: the difference of rating gains/losses between old and new formulae will hardly be more than 1 point, and even that 1 point might be lost because of rounding (ratings are integers in the current implementation)

[momom2]

Undead also need oasis if they want to go for late game or they have to rely on mass zombie to tank or uber-lich to solo the endgame. I also think saurians should have cold resist (even in baseline imo, force more diversity in the ud vs drakes mu).

Regarding maps, maybe you could design the frontline? Make sure there is a hill-tree tile on the frontline, but with 3 hexes of attack surface so there's a cost for holding forward. Also, make sure there is a road from the keep to the forward village so as not to make it harder for loyalists and undead to recruit than other factions. I wholly support a less random approach to maps; maybe you could fully design 5 or 6 maps and have them be picked at random?

[WarolKojtyla]

You should buff wose, it's UNUSABLE against anything other than dwarves.

All factions have ranged units, often with magic attacks which can deal insane damage to woses, while it can't even retaliate against it... And you further nerf it! :facepalm:

[momom2]

Woses are too good with multi-attack. They're not part of any mu except vs kang and vs ud, but that's fine. Rebels have a lot of tools in their arsenal, they don't need woses to be viable in all mu.

[WarolKojtyla]

Woses are too good with multi-attack. They're not part of any mu except vs kang and vs ud, but that's fine. Rebels have a lot of tools in their arsenal, they don't need woses to be viable in all mu.

But I love woses

And I think it would be the best if all units were viable in at least most of the matchups... But I get it might be hard to pull off balancewise.

And since when are woses available vs ud!? They are vulnerable to ghosts and dark adepts... To their ranged attacks...
And when ud get a lich the wose is dead for sure.......

[momom2]

They're not easy to use, but they can be worth it; they're more useful early game than end e.g. to tank until turn 13 while you build a core of sorceresses.

[WarolKojtyla]

3. ud vs drakes seems to be the most overwhelming one. the reason u have so little stats is because some of us have agreed to not even play the matchup

To be honest, I'm surprised that it's now firmly believed to be so one-sided. It clearly felt like a very dangerous matchup for Drake, but in 1.16's years stats on the top levels it's like just 56-60% winrate of Undead and normal amount of games, so more or less bearable and with mutual chances

I don't understand how could anyone say drakes vs ud is not that bad... Dark adept is very strong and it has magic cold attack...
Burner has -40% resistance to cold, the rest of drakes -50%! That's massive! Against pierce you could use some saurians, but saurians have -20% cold, so they don't really help you in this matchup as well...

[dwarftough]

I don't understand how could anyone say drakes vs ud is not that bad...

You have quoted the answer yourself:

in 1.16's years stats on the top levels it's like just 56-60% winrate of Undead and normal amount of games, so more or less bearable and with mutual chances

Need to see what happens in 1.18 currently, although this matchup is going to be amended anyway

[WarolKojtyla]

Btw, did you think about doing anything about people who don't report their games? It disrupts the statistics I guess. Also messes with other people's rating.