The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

[Atreides]

Playing some more I found that the bank guards for example don't move so they're OK actually. On the undead isle I found I could kill the mobile monsters OK and then recruit from the grave (funny desc's by the way : ) and while this did put some of the recruits adjacent to those guards they could move to safety right away luckily. The guards ARE big yes but I actually feel that it is right that way. You have to build up a strong force before you can rob a bank or loot a storehouse. I have not gotten that far but hopefully it is doable. They should be tough nuts to crack.

The storehouse guards do seem to be far away enough I think. Like I wrote it's really the thing with landing and then finding 2 yetis, 3 cave bears waiting for you vs your level 1 and 0's... 8- O

As regards the victory msg I should explain better. First it pops up a text message saying Estaban has reached 100 VP and wins. But then the standard game message popup appeared saying I was victorious. I think it's likely just a endlevel tag or such that's going off. What I wasn't sure about was whether it meant that the AI had won but that perhaps I was the victor amongst the 3 players? I had played that with 2 player slots run by AI and that was likely the cause of the Estaban VP since they killed both "player" sides when they tried to attack the gaol. I don't recall if they were supposed to work or not because the AI doesn't seem to handle them well (needs a custom AI like Galactic E!) what with the ships and all. My mistake I suspect.

[name]

The guards ARE big yes but I actually feel that it is right that way. You have to build up a strong force before you can rob a bank or loot a storehouse. I have not gotten that far but hopefully it is doable. They should be tough nuts to crack.

This next version should have more variation as far as how well guarded different settlements are.

Like I wrote it's really the thing with landing and then finding 2 yetis, 3 cave bears waiting for you vs your level 1 and 0's... 8- O

The new cost based spawners should keep that under control... fingers crossed.

I think it's likely just a endlevel tag or such that's going off.

Good catch, fixed:

Code: Select all

[endlevel]
    result=defeat
    [result]
        side={SIDE}
        result=victory
    [/result]
[/endlevel]

I had played that with 2 player slots run by AI and that was likely the cause of the Estaban VP since they killed both "player" sides when they tried to attack the gaol. I don't recall if they were supposed to work or not because the AI doesn't seem to handle them well (needs a custom AI like Galactic E!) what with the ships and all.

Basically, if you do not have 3 human players you can just close out the player slots you do not need. Then the scenario will spawn specially calibrated AI pirate ships (the "Purple Privateers") to fill those empty player slots, and these AI pirate ships will function more or less as you would expect.

OK and then recruit from the grave

Forgot to mention this before but there are also some new recruitable units at temples.

[name]

The High Seas Alpha-5 is released:

The_High_Seas_Alpha-5.zip

(93.89 KiB) Downloaded 152 times

Changes:

- Monster spawners based on unit costs (bigger monsters are less numerous)
- Weakened some storehouse and bank guard forces
- Reduced crew injury radius (radius = damage / 12)
- Gold varies by bank (better guarded banks have more gold)
- All prisoners at the gaol are at least level 2 and have loyal trait

- Fix broken victory message


Note: this is for Wesnoth 1.16. The next alpha version will be for 1.18.

[Atreides]

Just ran it through and it's working great! Even won and the Purples being the main competition as intended. BTW does it advise in the scenario description that if playing with less than 3 to set them to empty? That'd be good for first time players.

I did still run into a trio of cave bears and fled but that's more of a they LOOK gigantic thing... then again that was at the start when I had only some L1 marines. I did notice they wandered down the coast later and then I murderered them with the ship. Ditto with a Yeti that was taking a coastal excursion. Thanks to the cannon coasts are death zones for land units. Well Mr. Yeti actually waded into the shallow water so he got what he deserved.

Speaking of shallow water it seems that a lot has been added and it connects all the islands? Sort of a pity but I know that the AI just can't handle deep water and real islands at all.

Had a great fight with the crew of a warship (avoided naval action at all costs, yikes) and was hoping to board their ship once I'd killed the marines that landed on my property Ganton... darn AI actually fled the almost empty ship... sigh.

Replay included of all the white knuckle thrilling action! (Tickets are a mere $1.50)

[name]

BTW does it advise in the scenario description that if playing with less than 3 to set them to empty? That'd be good for first time players.

Great idea, somehow I forgot about using the scenario description as a tool for communicating the setup instructions. Perhaps the biggest remaining issue blocking this from going back up on the addons server is the question of how to communicate all its weird nonstandard game mechanics to new players...

I did still run into a trio of cave bears and fled but that's more of a they LOOK gigantic thing... then again that was at the start when I had only some L1 marines. I did notice they wandered down the coast later and then I murderered them with the ship. Ditto with a Yeti that was taking a coastal excursion. Thanks to the cannon coasts are death zones for land units. Well Mr. Yeti actually waded into the shallow water so he got what he deserved.

Seems even King Kong is no match for a rolling broadside.

I have been looking into the cause of the "cave bear horde" since you raised the issue... and it seems like the cave bears are so aggressive because they are hungry - they just need some more level one units to eat instead of your crew, up there in the frozen north. The similarly strong monsters spawning in the southern desert lands are not such a big problem because they are mostly targeting the scorpions, saurians and drakes.

Speaking of shallow water it seems that a lot has been added and it connects all the islands? Sort of a pity but I know that the AI just can't handle deep water and real islands at all.

Actually, the map has been that way for... over 16 years? I try not to change the classic map too much more than I have to for the updated game mechanics.

But if the shallow water was removed, I think the AI should be able to play it just fine... since the coastal villages would attract privateer corsairs, estabanian warships and other ships to "dock" there so as to capture them or "repair" (heal the ship). And then the ships' compliment of onboard marines would "deploy" (which the AI knows how to do automatically thanks to the boarding [tunnel] system which "sticks" to the ship) to capture villages farther inland or attack the local fauna and soldiers.

A secret project that has been ongoing over all these alpha versions, is the restructuring of the code to support more than just the one "Estaban Goal" map. And future maps might have much larger and more contiguous regions of deep ocean and shallows.

Had a great fight with the crew of a warship (avoided naval action at all costs, yikes)

A warship is a pretty formidable opponent but there are several things you can use against it to put the odds in your favor:

- It is lawful while your "corsair" vessel is chaotic, so waiting until nightfall to launch your attack makes a big difference.
- It has easy to kill level 0 units manning its cannons on flat "terrain" and killing just a few of these early on is significant.
- It has a pitiful ram (melee) attack.
- Upgrading your naval ram adds 100% more damage and upgrading your cannons adds 25% more damage.
- A captured orc ship offers your fleet a corvus melee attack with "slows" to further halve enemy cannon damage (if it hits).
- (Minor) your ship's cannons have "marksman" so slightly more of your shots will hit in a deep water battle than vice versa.

Your corsair's damage at night with upgrades is:
ram = 30x1 (blast radius = 2)
gun = 25x6 (blast radius = 2)

Their warhip's damage at night:
ram = 6x1 (blast radius = 0)
gun = 15x8 (blast radius = 1)

And if it is slowed too:
ram = 3x1 (blast radius = 0)
gun = 8x8 (blast radius = 0)

The safest strategy is to attack on the first night turn with your upgraded ram, which (with 30 damage and 2 radius) has a decent chance of killing some of the enemy crew. Then send your fastest boarders (saurian skirmishers, footpads, et cetera) behind the estabanian conscripted peasant gun crewmen so that your "thief" boarders can use their backstab ability to dispatch several in the first turn. If you have an orc outrigger vessel then try to slow the warship using its corvus melee attack.

The warship's biggest weakness is its vulnerable gun crews, so taking them out as quickly as possible while limiting the amount of cannon damage your ship and (especially) your crew receive in the meantime is the key.

[Computer_Player]

Sorry, can I ask how I play the add-on? I downloaded the zip, extracted it, and put in in the add-ons folder under data in my 1.16 wesnoth. Where can I find it?

[gnombat]

Sorry, can I ask how I play the add-on? I downloaded the zip, extracted it, and put in in the add-ons folder under data in my 1.16 wesnoth. Where can I find it?

On the multiplayer "Create Game" screen, if you select "Scenarios", there should be a scenario in the list called "3p - High Seas: Estiban Gaol".

[name]

Sorry, can I ask how I play the add-on? I downloaded the zip, extracted it, and put in in the add-ons folder under data in my 1.16 wesnoth. Where can I find it?

On the multiplayer "Create Game" screen, if you select "Scenarios", there should be a scenario in the list called "3p - High Seas: Estiban Gaol".

Also note the zip file (The_High_Seas_Alpha-5.zip) contains a single folder named "The_High_Seas" and it is only this contained folder you want to move into your add-ons folder.

Some extractors (like the default windows one) might convert the zip into an extra container folder named something like "The_High_Seas_Alpha-5" which has the "The_High_Seas" folder (the actual add-on) inside of it. If that is the case, then just pull "The_High_Seas" out of there and place it directly inside your 1.16 add-ons folder.

[Atreides]

BTW does it advise in the scenario description that if playing with less than 3 to set them to empty? That'd be good for first time players.

Great idea, somehow I forgot about using the scenario description as a tool for communicating the setup instructions. Perhaps the biggest remaining issue blocking this from going back up on the addons server is the question of how to communicate all its weird nonstandard game mechanics to new players...

Yup, it is the only place where you can be sure that players can get final setup instructions. It may be named "description" which might suggest it's just "fluff" and decoration but it is vital for scenarios such as this.
As for the new player instructions dilemma all I can think of is the method used by the Monster Hunt (Limabean) addon. At first it was a massive popup at game start but it's now been changed to a right click menu at a labelled map location which opens up all the text needed. (in chapters, heh)

I did still run into a trio of cave bears and fled but that's more of a they LOOK gigantic thing... then again that was at the start when I had only some L1 marines. I did notice they wandered down the coast later and then I murderered them with the ship. Ditto with a Yeti that was taking a coastal excursion. Thanks to the cannon coasts are death zones for land units. Well Mr. Yeti actually waded into the shallow water so he got what he deserved.

Seems even King Kong is no match for a rolling broadside.

I have been looking into the cause of the "cave bear horde" since you raised the issue... and it seems like the cave bears are so aggressive because they are hungry - they just need some more level one units to eat instead of your crew, up there in the frozen north. The similarly strong monsters spawning in the southern desert lands are not such a big problem because they are mostly targeting the scorpions, saurians and drakes.

Oh I don't think the trio was too big a problem. They're only L2. They just looked like L4. That's something due to the art. I mean they are gorgeous but perhaps a tad too large.
Speaking of monster on monster violence, I did notice that and was wondering if that's ideal. I suppose though it creates a natural ecosystem keeping the monster pop. in check. As you said, the bears musta killed all the competition. Probably a fluke. But for ecological balance (geez how did that get into a fantasy strategy game!) larger numbers of smaller beasties might help. Especially L0 ones that won't add undue VP or XP to the apex predators side/unit.

Speaking of shallow water it seems that a lot has been added and it connects all the islands? Sort of a pity but I know that the AI just can't handle deep water and real islands at all.

Actually, the map has been that way for... over 16 years? I try not to change the classic map too much more than I have to for the updated game mechanics.

But if the shallow water was removed, I think the AI should be able to play it just fine... since the coastal villages would attract privateer corsairs, estabanian warships and other ships to "dock" there so as to capture them or "repair" (heal the ship). And then the ships' compliment of onboard marines would "deploy" (which the AI knows how to do automatically thanks to the boarding [tunnel] system which "sticks" to the ship) to capture villages farther inland or attack the local fauna and soldiers.

A secret project that has been ongoing over all these alpha versions, is the restructuring of the code to support more than just the one "Estaban Goal" map. And future maps might have much larger and more contiguous regions of deep ocean and shallows.

Hah, I guess I only now noticed that once can actually wade from island to island. I must have been blinded by the availability of naval transport and simply assumed that was the only way to get across the water aside from fly/swim.

Yep tunnels are a great boon to the AI, I redid a couple of old maps that had teleport spots with tunnels precisely for that reason.

The map is great as is. But more maps would be awesome. I wonder if it could even be exported as an era that one could play on any map?

Had a great fight with the crew of a warship (avoided naval action at all costs, yikes)

A warship is a pretty formidable opponent but there are several things you can use against it to put the odds in your favor:

- It is lawful while your "corsair" vessel is chaotic, so waiting until nightfall to launch your attack makes a big difference.
- It has easy to kill level 0 units manning its cannons on flat "terrain" and killing just a few of these early on is significant.
- It has a pitiful ram (melee) attack.
- Upgrading your naval ram adds 100% more damage and upgrading your cannons adds 25% more damage.
- A captured orc ship offers your fleet a corvus melee attack with "slows" to further halve enemy cannon damage (if it hits).
- (Minor) your ship's cannons have "marksman" so slightly more of your shots will hit in a deep water battle than vice versa.

Your corsair's damage at night with upgrades is:
ram = 30x1 (blast radius = 2)
gun = 25x6 (blast radius = 2)

Their warhip's damage at night:
ram = 6x1 (blast radius = 0)
gun = 15x8 (blast radius = 1)

And if it is slowed too:
ram = 3x1 (blast radius = 0)
gun = 8x8 (blast radius = 0)

The safest strategy is to attack on the first night turn with your upgraded ram, which (with 30 damage and 2 radius) has a decent chance of killing some of the enemy crew. Then send your fastest boarders (saurian skirmishers, footpads, et cetera) behind the estabanian conscripted peasant gun crewmen so that your "thief" boarders can use their backstab ability to dispatch several in the first turn. If you have an orc outrigger vessel then try to slow the warship using its corvus melee attack.

The warship's biggest weakness is its vulnerable gun crews, so taking them out as quickly as possible while limiting the amount of cannon damage your ship and (especially) your crew receive in the meantime is the key.

Oh that is interesting. I did note the TOD difference but I decided to go for zero risk. I did have a captured outrigger but I didn't think of using its slow. Not sure it could survive a broadside from a warship so timing would be critical. I also did forget that had I boarded it and taken out cannoneers I could "defang" it somewhat.
Well I guess next time I'll try out some of those tactics : )

[name]

The map is great as is. But more maps would be awesome. I wonder if it could even be exported as an era that one could play on any map?

Probably not, unfortunately. Only because it needs for there to be the array of ship "decks" somewhere on a map.

[Atreides]

LOL, of course. Didn't think of that.

[secretspacepolice]

I definitely second the request for an upload, but I'd also like to see a dedicated PVP map,

You can download the latest version (Alpha-2) from here. Then just take out the contained folder (The_High_Seas) and put it in wesnoth's data/add-ons directory. You can even play it online with other people if you host (no need for them to download it independently).

There is still some more work to be done before it can play other maps. And some features need to be redesigned for PvP, especially boarding. I am currently working on improving these aspects, so they should be better in the next alpha version.

sorry, it's been... several years. uh. elvish pillager's variant has a dedicated PVP map and mode, and some nice improvements that would be very nice to see back in the original- it's called EP's High Seas Engine, on add-ons.wesnoth.org/1.8/

A possible explanation is the gunpowder magazine (or boiler) is set off and the explosion kills the crew... I will have to give it a think.


Interesting choice. I tend to gravitate towards footpads, thieves and fencers since they are such fast boarders that they can take advantageous positions on the enemy deck during the first turn of an engagement. But yeah, adding a lot more crew options is on the To Do list.

also of note, EP's HSE features ship sinking so they don't go boom immediately, so you can escape from a doomed ship- if you're fast enough. of course if there's only deep water around, you'll still drown
I don't have 1.8 right now, and it's not on steam, so I unfortunately can't provide pictures in reference to these features

also, I will admit, I'm a rebel player most of the time- a little more variety for crew and captains would be very nice

seeing the mention of whatsit ancients, that campaign actually has some pretty nice ship graphics- it's a big change, but it might be kinda neat to actually have those graphics ingame- although they have a fixed size, meaning smaller or larger ships would need to be the old style or have new graphics made
I probably meant to send this message several years ago, but ADHD can be very helpful sometimes
it's been a long two years

[gnombat]

I don't have 1.8 right now, and it's not on steam, so I unfortunately can't provide pictures in reference to these features

You can download version 1.8 from here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth-1.8/wesnoth-1.8.6/

[name]

sorry, it's been... several years. uh. elvish pillager's variant has a dedicated PVP map and mode, and some nice improvements that would be very nice to see back in the original- it's called EP's High Seas Engine, on add-ons.wesnoth.org/1.8/

Are there any specific features you would like to see ported over from Elvish Pillager's version which are still missing from this latest version ("Alpha 5" which you can download over here). Quite a lot of features were added and redesigned over the last couple years so at this point there might be some overlap with EP's version due to convergent evolution.

also, I will admit, I'm a rebel player most of the time- a little more variety for crew and captains would be very nice

Currently you can have any captain available in the era you chose (including all the rebel faction leaders), you can hire elvish shamans and woses as crew, and if you can manage to board and capture a Warship from the Estabanians (very challenging) you can even recruit any unit in your faction from its helm (so all the rebel units are available if that was the faction you chose). But for the next version I can also make the elvish fighter and elvish archer available for hire at some locations, if you like.

that campaign actually has some pretty nice ship graphics- it's a big change, but it might be kinda neat to actually have those graphics ingame- although they have a fixed size, meaning smaller or larger ships would need to be the old style or have new graphics made

This might be tough since there are now four classes of ships with very different shapes and sizes. As well as some plans to add two or three more ship classes at some point in the future. Those ship graphics from Secrets of the Ancients really are nice looking, though.

also of note, EP's HSE features ship sinking so they don't go boom immediately, so you can escape from a doomed ship- if you're fast enough. of course if there's only deep water around, you'll still drown

It is an interesting idea. Maybe sinking/flooding could even happen gradually over several turns once your ship has lost most of its hit points.

[secretspacepolice]

sorry, it's been... several years. uh. elvish pillager's variant has a dedicated PVP map and mode, and some nice improvements that would be very nice to see back in the original- it's called EP's High Seas Engine, on add-ons.wesnoth.org/1.8/

Are there any specific features you would like to see ported over from Elvish Pillager's version which are still missing from this latest version ("Alpha 5" which you can download over here). Quite a lot of features were added and redesigned over the last couple years so at this point there might be some overlap with EP's version due to convergent evolution.

also, I will admit, I'm a rebel player most of the time- a little more variety for crew and captains would be very nice

Currently you can have any captain available in the era you chose (including all the rebel faction leaders), you can hire elvish shamans and woses as crew, and if you can manage to board and capture a Warship from the Estabanians (very challenging) you can even recruit any unit in your faction from its helm (so all the rebel units are available if that was the faction you chose). But for the next version I can also make the elvish fighter and elvish archer available for hire at some locations, if you like.

that campaign actually has some pretty nice ship graphics- it's a big change, but it might be kinda neat to actually have those graphics ingame- although they have a fixed size, meaning smaller or larger ships would need to be the old style or have new graphics made

This might be tough since there are now four classes of ships with very different shapes and sizes. As well as some plans to add two or three more ship classes at some point in the future. Those ship graphics from Secrets of the Ancients really are nice looking, though.

also of note, EP's HSE features ship sinking so they don't go boom immediately, so you can escape from a doomed ship- if you're fast enough. of course if there's only deep water around, you'll still drown

It is an interesting idea. Maybe sinking/flooding could even happen gradually over several turns once your ship has lost most of its hit points.

sinking is probably the biggest thing. while the dynamic ship availability is pretty nice for as many ships as will fit on the map, it seems like the new high seas is going in a different direction- the PVP map would be a nice thing to import. and yeah, sinking happens over a couple turns. it's a lot easier to disembark from the new ships than the old ones though, as there's many places you can get off now.