Message to Wesnoth community

General feedback and discussion of the game.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Pentarctagon »

Because while an apology is a good start, it doesn't undo all the things he's said and done nor reverse all the players he's undoubtedly pushed away from the game as a whole. So if he ever wants the original ban to be reconsidered, he will need to stay true to that apology for a long time first.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
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matto
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by matto »

Matto here, and...

I met ShadowVeil around early 2016, at that time i didn't own a registered account.
On MP server the only map you would see was isar, i started to observe many isars till i bumped into ShadowVeil's isar and after that i started to love wesnoth gameplay more, while slowly getting stronger i became friend with him.

We did break our friendship many times through the years and yet we still make peace, i respect a lot his skills otherwise i dislike his behaviour towards players and i happen to take that at heart when i know those players, even if sometimes he is misunderstood due to his past.

This looks like a good chance for him to get a good name, will take time for players to change view about ShadowVeil. :mrgreen:

(by one of those guys that gave chance after chance)
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ReNoM
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by ReNoM »

Cackfiend wrote: January 8th, 2021, 8:39 pm I cant speak for Wesnoth admins, but as far as the ladder is concerned he was given a second chance early on but continued to cheat. That was over 7 years ago.
Did he promise not to cheat too then?
Cackfiend wrote: January 8th, 2021, 8:39 pm Some wesnoth admins do have a dark history with their moderation being extreme. For example, I remember Noy banning a friend of mine for saying something silly in chat.
I guess they will never admit that.
Cackfiend wrote: January 8th, 2021, 8:39 pm any recommendations?
Well, I just checked out the current bans, I guess some of the players were already unbanned, but I suggest to unban Rigor. Anyway, I'm not sure if he wish to (or can) return to the ladder after the unban.
Cackfiend wrote: January 8th, 2021, 8:39 pm I dont understand this. In competitive games of course cheating is a problem.
That was a sarcasm. I know that the developers have never considered the fact that the cheating is possible in the game as an issue that has to be fixed (to be precise, I mean the network protocol design lack that allows to disclosure what's behind fog, shroud or disclosure an ambush). Also I heard from a developer that he would like the online gaming to never exist in wesnoth. So the developers literally let the competitive players see that they (they devs) are apathetic about the competitive wesnoth (or even worse, the tournaments with prizes were forbidden for a few years, and the tournaments are still not recommended, so we can draw a conclusion that the devs dislike the competitive wesnoth), then why should they ban players for the cheating if they say that the game code doesn't have to be updated to avoid cheating?
Vilebeggar wrote: January 8th, 2021, 11:00 pm What i meant was that what is the point of banning the original account yet allowing his bootlegs. Whats the big deal with unbanning the original? Thats all he asks.
Fair enough.
csarmi
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by csarmi »

There's an easy solution here. He was banned. He used other accounts (this included) to circumvent the ban. That's not something that should be allowed. What's the point in banning someone then?
I already don't understand how he was allowed to play freely and quite openly with this account in the first place.
I think you should just ban this account as well.
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Elder2
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Elder2 »

ReNoM wrote: January 8th, 2021, 8:24 am To finish up, I'll add a few words about the cheating. The developers have never seen the cheating as a problem in this game. So why a player should get banned for a cheating if it isn't a problem?
Thats the misconception, he was not banned for that.
ReNoM wrote: January 9th, 2021, 12:07 pm Well, I just checked out the current bans, I guess some of the players were already unbanned, but I suggest to unban Rigor. Anyway, I'm not sure if he wish to (or can) return to the ladder after the unban.
Nice one.
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Maboul
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Maboul »

The answer of Pentarctagon is clear and fair enough.

ShadowVeil was permanetly banned. He isn't anymore. He's allowed to create an account and play without fearing to be banned anymore, unless he doesn't respect the CoC.
This is his second chance, and maybe later, he'll get back his account, but the time hasn't come yet.

Thanks to Pentarctagon for the time he has spent reading these posts and answering.
We should remember the trouble caused by ShadowVeil costed a lot of time to volunteers, and i'm sure they had better things to do.
I appreciate he decided to post publicly his apologizes, that wasn't so easy.
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ReNoM
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by ReNoM »

Elder2 wrote: January 9th, 2021, 4:25 pm Nice one.
Yeah, Elder is also the case, renaming his account would be an appropriate solution.
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Elder2
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Elder2 »

ReNoM wrote: January 9th, 2021, 4:33 pm
Elder2 wrote: January 9th, 2021, 4:25 pm Nice one.
Yeah, Elder is also the case, renaming his account would be an appropriate solution.
I dont care about that.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Pentarctagon »

ReNoM wrote: January 9th, 2021, 12:07 pm That was a sarcasm. I know that the developers have never considered the fact that the cheating is possible in the game as an issue that has to be fixed (to be precise, I mean the network protocol design lack that allows to disclosure what's behind fog, shroud or disclosure an ambush). Also I heard from a developer that he would like the online gaming to never exist in wesnoth. So the developers literally let the competitive players see that they (they devs) are apathetic about the competitive wesnoth (or even worse, the tournaments with prizes were forbidden for a few years, and the tournaments are still not recommended, so we can draw a conclusion that the devs dislike the competitive wesnoth), then why should they ban players for the cheating if they say that the game code doesn't have to be updated to avoid cheating?
Tournaments that involve monetary rewards aren't encouraged, since nobody wants to be involved in trying to settle a dispute around who should receive prize money or the like when it's widely known that it's simple and easy to cheat to view opponent side and unit information. This is why the MP CoC clearly states that anyone who chooses to participate in such a tournament does so at their own risk.

And while fixing the information disclosure issue is not impossible per se, it would mean changing a foundational assumption for how online multiplayer will work that's been in place since online MP was introduced to Wesnoth. Any implementation of a solution would be an immense amount of work and even after completion would likely be very buggy for quite some time. If there's someone who wants to make a serious attempt at addressing this limitation anyway, they should feel free to investigate the current situation and ask questions as needed, but so far there has not been anyone who has volunteered to take on this herculean task.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
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Cackfiend
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Cackfiend »

After speaking with TheChosenOne and csarmi, the only two people that have objected to giving SV another chance, they are now on board with giving him that chance. I have given people ample time to respond between here and Discord. Pentarctagon has weighed in as well.

I have decided to put SV/Estrada on probation, and allow him to participate on the ladder and in the Ladder Tournament under the nickname Estrada. Any trash-talking, cheating, or general toxicity will result in another ban. I'm confident that won't be an issue. I know he appreciates This. I am sure he will be a good sportsman, especially to people he doesn't know.

Welcome back, SV.
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D
Caritas
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by Caritas »

Philosofical question:
Was he permanently banned if he is unbanned? :lol:
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BTIsaac
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Re: Message to Wesnoth community

Post by BTIsaac »

I could not be more of an outsider to this discussion, so it's not my place to give anybody advice here. That being said, the described behavior is very much familiar to me, as are certain personal accounts on this thread. I probably wouldn't be able to be this charitable, if I had a say in the matter.
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