Female Wesnoth - Fencer

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ghype
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Female Wesnoth - Fencer

Post by ghype » November 5th, 2018, 2:14 am

As discussed I will show you my female fencers. You can find them here.

Female Fencer
  • fencer base - done
  • fencer attack - require feedback
  • fencer defend
  • fencer die
  • fencer idle
  • fencer stand
Female Duelist
  • duelist base - done
  • duelist attack
  • duelist defend
  • duelist die
  • duelist ranged

Female Master-At-Arms
  • m.a.a. base - done
  • m.a.a. crossbow
  • m.a.a. defend
  • m.a.a. melee
  • m.a.a. recover
  • m.a.a. victory

What units?
Initially I thought to work on female variants of the elvish fighter lines which started this discussion, but it was noted that elves are undergoing a re-deisgn.
This means that any animation of the female variant must have been re-done in unforeseen time.
On a second thought, the loy fencer line is the only other unit, which could make use of a lore-friendly female variant.

Animations?
I would be the one doing that. People would ask why wouldn't I focus on more wanted missing animations e.g. the elvish scout?
The reason for that is, that I am not that skilled yet. Making animation frames from scratch are much harder than simply copying and editing existing ones.
But with time, I will get to a point where I can do animation frames from scratch too. This just might be the best exercise for that.

Portraits?
This is probably what this project will depend on.
For the elves I could work together with other artist creating a convincing franken, since elvish portrait assets are very coherent and easy to manipulate.
Maybe they are convincing enough to be mainlined, or could function as placeholders till an artist is willing to create new ones.
For the fencer it is more complicated. There is not enough assets to franken one and I don't think I would dare to try it. However, I am positive if my sprites and animations are solid, some artist might want to do at least one portrait from scratch which could function as a place holder for the entire line.



Sprites & Discussion
Here you can find the initial images for the elvish female father and a link in form of a discussion about how they could/should look like.
This project also depends on your feedback and opinions. So yeah ... let's have a talk.
images:
Last edited by ghype on November 22nd, 2018, 10:47 am, edited 6 times in total.
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The_Gnat
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by The_Gnat » November 5th, 2018, 5:45 am

I had a similar thought a while ago and so definitely support your idea!

I really like what you have done, though would encourage also changing the hair to look more feminine!

Keep up the good work! :)

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ghype
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by ghype » November 5th, 2018, 12:48 pm

thanks for supporting this.
The_Gnat wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 5:45 am
encourage also changing the hair to look more feminine
I was thinking to make it more curly like the druid, but I figured it would be too much. Considering how the male/female sharpshooter's hair is pretty much the same on both sexes.

Also I don't know if I should continue with the lv2 base models or do some animations for the lv3, so people see i am serious about this project.
What do you think?

Note: Did I posted this in the Art Workshop or was this moved from Art Contribution to Art Workshop ?
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enclave
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by enclave » November 5th, 2018, 12:49 pm

The_Gnat wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 5:45 am
I really like what you have done, though would encourage also changing the hair to look more feminine!
Y i think too that they dont look 100% femenine.. i coudl easily take them for elvish males.. elves might be the hardest faction to mess with male/female genders.. idk.

My opinion on problem is that it would be great to have more any female units in game, it cant be bad. Once a female player joined my half civ add-on and asked if I could put her king a female, and answer was no, unfortunately there is no female clubman and the upgrades in wesnoth.. so well if you could create female bandits and developers would include it to mainline, would be super cool ;)

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ghype
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by ghype » November 5th, 2018, 12:56 pm

enclave wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 12:49 pm
elves might be the hardest faction to mess with male/female genders...
that indeed will probably the hardest task. however, there is this already mainlined unit.
Can you tell what sex this unit is?
questionmark.png
questionmark.png (1.77 KiB) Viewed 12256 times
considering this unit, I think the versions I did are much more differentiable then the example I attached.
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Edwylm
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by Edwylm » November 5th, 2018, 5:34 pm

I think this image might help. This is from jetrel's image for comparing a more updated elves vs the current elves.

https://www.wesnoth.org/jetrel/Wesnoth/ ... r-comp.png

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ghype
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by ghype » November 5th, 2018, 6:34 pm

Edwylm wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 5:34 pm
This is from jetrel's image for comparing a more updated elves vs the current elves.
snap your right, totally forgot it. Unless I want to do everything twice. Maybe I should wait and see how the devs are going to decided to implement the updated elves. thanks for sharing this thought Edwyln. I guess I could still do them if I am dedicated and then do them again once they get updated.

Many units are missing some animations so they are much more needed than female variantIs am not skilled enough to draw animation from scratch, if not I would have helped out with that already.

I will think about it.
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enclave
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by enclave » November 5th, 2018, 11:05 pm

ghype wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 12:56 pm
Can you tell what sex this unit is?
considering this unit, I think the versions I did are much more differentiable then the example I attached.
yeah u are right, although this unit image has quite considerably more expressed boobs than yours :D coz i think your sprites were wearing armour.. so.. it would be logical.. for real world :D also your images are very musculine, heavy swords.. wide pose... the sprite you shown is opposite to it, narrow slender figure.. not wide not threatening pose.. still hard to say its 100% female lol.. but..
just add them wings, females have wings :D joking.. maybe lower the shoulders, remove plate armor from them.. kind of... these huge boots.. idk, they have male pose.. legs wide spread like what usually male do.
yeah u still could do things twice and then we would make elvish female sprite competition with votes ;)

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The_Gnat
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by The_Gnat » November 6th, 2018, 7:43 am

ghype wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 6:34 pm

snap your right, totally forgot it. Unless I want to do everything twice. Maybe I should wait and see how the devs are going to decided to implement the updated elves. thanks for sharing this thought Edwyln. I guess I could still do them if I am dedicated and then do them again once they get updated.
I think it is worth making female units but maybe just not elves first. ;) Probably it will take a while before the new elves get fully implemented but might as well work on some of the images that aren't being worked on.

I don't know if there are any plans for the loyalists but I think female variants for some of the loyalists would be great! :D Alternatively female versions of the bandit might fit well with the other female outlaws.

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ghype
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by ghype » November 6th, 2018, 8:44 am

I totally agree with you Gnat, after spending some time thinking about this I decided to look other places for finding potential female variants.

To be honest, my current favorite is the fencer. Fencing can be categorised in foil, épée and sabre where as most of them were practised by male only in the medieval times. Especially the épée had a gentleman status. Since female olympics of foil was introduced in early 20s to the Olympic Games, I assume that it was practised by females too in the 18th and 19th centuray.

Taking in consideration that Wesnoth is a fantasy game, female fencers can work quite well.
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The_Gnat
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by The_Gnat » November 6th, 2018, 7:52 pm

ghype wrote:
November 6th, 2018, 8:44 am
I totally agree with you Gnat, after spending some time thinking about this I decided to look other places for finding potential female variants.

To be honest, my current favorite is the fencer.
:D Yeah that is a great idea!

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GunChleoc
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by GunChleoc » November 7th, 2018, 11:04 am

For making a sprite female, make the shoulders narrower and widen the hips?

Half-undressing them and giving them boob armor does not make sense, because nobody in their right mind would want to wear that sort of garb in battle and get killed ;)

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ghype
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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by ghype » November 7th, 2018, 1:59 pm

The following images are posted in order to clear several misconceptions regarding the differences of male/female elves in our current stage of wood-elves.

(1) High level male elves share all the same armour.
  • Champion, Marshal, Avenger (male) have the same "chest plate"
  • Hero and Ranger do too but is irrelevant since they are lv2
  • Assuming Captain does as well, but it is not visible due to its stance
  • Following .gif proofs my statement, focus is only on the chest which are identical to all 3 units shown.
    Exception is lower abdomen, which is the same, but moved 1px sideways to the Avenger due to stance:
  • _elve_chestplate.gif
    had to reposition sprites for having chest centered
    _elve_chestplate.gif (5.86 KiB) Viewed 11966 times
.
(2) Differences between current male and female elves are very subtle
  • The only difference in Avenger or Ranger male/female is that shoulder are more narrow and hips is a bit more open or lower
  • Proof of of that are int he next to .gif
  • _elve_avenger_difference.gif
    _elve_avenger_difference.gif (4.54 KiB) Viewed 11966 times
  • _elve_ranger_difference.gif
    _elve_ranger_difference.gif (4.48 KiB) Viewed 11966 times
.
(3) Sharpshooter is exception to both (1) and (2)
  • This line wears different chest clothing. I say clothing, because we can assume that that is no actual armour.
    This would explain the lower hp of this unit
  • Differences are not only in the stance, but also a thicker arm for the male or longer hair for the female
  • Proof of of that are int he next to .gif
  • _elve_sharpshooter_difference.gif
    _elve_sharpshooter_difference.gif (4.22 KiB) Viewed 11966 times
.
Conclusion:
In summary we can say, if the chest armour of the male units (Marshal, Champion, Avenger) are identical, then so should be the chest armour for the female ones. Especially if there is already a consistency establish through out the lv2 Ranger and the lv3 Avenger.

In fact thats exactly what I did, I copied the female Avenger chest, pasted it to the male Marshall / Champion and recoloured it in order to rework the male unit into a female unit. Further more I narrowed the shoulders 1px on both sides and lowered the hips too. I even lengthen the hair of both, which doesn't happen at the Avenger or Ranger line.

So I can say that my changes are very lore-friendly and following the non-existing protocol based on the existing male/female elves. Of course I could have done more, but I didn't want to over-do them. I wanted to stay as close to the existing changes as possible. If you still have concerns, you can state them now.

Thanks for your time.

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GunChleoc
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Re: Female Wesnoth - Elves Misconceptions

Post by GunChleoc » November 7th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Now that I look at your sprite comparisons, the male armor has highlights on the chest as well - I guess it's the small scale of the sprites that put me on the wrong track with my comment.

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Re: Elvish Fighter - Female Variants

Post by The_Gnat » November 7th, 2018, 8:10 pm

ghype wrote:
November 7th, 2018, 1:59 pm
The following images are posted in order to clear several misconceptions regarding the differences of male/female elves in our current stage of wood-elves.
8) Nice post! I love the careful comparison and totally agree with what you are doing!

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