Legend of the Invincibles

[Ugmpag]

Just a couple of small things:

Chaos Rider AMLA "incinerating enemies with sword" applies to the fireball attack instead of the flaming sword.

Knight of Magic can use staffs. (not as a weapon, but can pick it up, use it, and benefit from the effects)

Foolish feature request:

Any chance the Lancer can advance to Jouster with a Claymore like knock-back effect? It could have an amla to explosive knock-back as it charges into the enemy line. Another possible amla could be the ability for the Jouster to charge through an enemy line with an incremental advance to +1,+2 etc extra moves after attack, like a gradually advancing hit and run similar to the Cunctator's Sword. When advancing to Jouster, the Lancer could also gain better resistances to impact and pierce due to the better armour afforded by a professional Jouster.

Currently (mid chapter 7 with lots of lvl 3 enemies), the lancer only needs 80 experience to advance to paladin or grand knight so the unit is only good for 4 kills before he is "lost" to the knighthood and I have to transfer all the gear to a new recruit.

[Feareth]

@ feareth if you level up the same unit you will find that said unit now has another level up line from the following
- legacy of kings (added damage and resistance to it and units around it) - sudo leadership ability
- legacy of fire/ice/shadow dragon - ranged "breath" of said type, shadow drains and slows
- legacy of light - illumination and resurrection of undead units (super nice on lawful units, +50% damage anytime anywhere)
- legacy of undead - resistances turn more to undead like with further advancing, grants drain and few others.
- legacy of rock - added damage

that is all that iv been able to find and recall at this time, but it does require you to "waste" an AMLA to unlock. sort of a "you can take door 1 / door 2 / door 3, OR you can go for the mystery prize!" sort of deal

dugi, the first time i played though they did fight each other (liches bats vrs normal bats) but the liches won out,easily. From what I thought this was to happen as the wall to the lich's area just broke and he/she/it is trying to expand out then the lich encounters you and goes "Hrmm, new material. . might as well use it". as far as the dragon being there, I get that its there, there is good foreshadowing its just that well, in any scary setup you get the whole "its coming" then a "AAAAA ITS HERREEE RUNNN" and when the setup is over its a "whew glad THAT'S over". To your missing the "AAAAA ITS HERREEE RUNNN" part.

AHHH ok thanks

[Rodil]

Testing Results (Day1)

This will be a fairly long post with spoilers, excuse my poor formatting and paragraph length.

I played through the first 2 scenarios of chapter seven again today with the updated LotI and though that is not very far, here are the results and some thoughts.

I am running on hard difficulty, take that as you wish, I generally see it as easier at times due to the extra experience you get from the harder/more plentiful enemies.

In the interests of testing their capabilities I wanted to try using just the two demi-gods exlusively. While this may not bring accurate results in terms of what they may get in a normal run through, I think it is a reasonable thing to test as I found both of the first two levels EASIER while using just them instead of using recruited units or even my super built up units from the previous chapter. The difference between the demigods and an average 4th level unit with a couple of AMLAs and even a book or two still seems fairly staggering.

I played off of a save from a run through of the previous chapter so I had a good deal of equipment to work with. Both Lethalia and Efraim were able to get bumped up to a decent value in most resistances, ranging from 25% impact to 60% arcane for Efraim and 15% arcane to 80% fire for Lethalia. Both having about 50% in blade/pierce made the 1st scenario far too easy for them alone. The furthest either of them got wounded was 110/130 hps, they both leveled once. Leth redeemed twice while Efraim only redeemed once(he was killing catapults).

The second scenario of chapter 7 started off more challenging with both of my gods getting surrounded by corrupted guys and bombarded by attacks, however these attacks could still not take down my gods. Even at 6-9 attackers per turn, they were only able to get the gods down to about half their hit points before they would inevitably level up, regain all the lost hit points and become that much harder to kill. By the end of the level they both leveled up 7-8 each and I was heavily blasting area attacks so I feel that number would have changed little had I had some followers to mow down wounded enemies, maybe would have brought the levels down to possible 4-6 level ups. Each was able to redeem about 10 times so were able to pick up their first redeem choice during this scene and get partway to their 2nd redeem choice. This was an unlimited turn level and I spent a total of 42 turns on it. I do not feel that I was grinding/farming for exp at that length, just explored the level and then finished it.

I did notice something that I see as a problem during this level. The AI aggression is set to 1, which I agree with. However the AI, while attacking Lethalia was not using their most damaging attacks. Some had attacks that would do 17-3 at 70% because of my weak arcane resistance on her, but then they used they 3-4 at 40% attacks in melee because they did not want to deal with the massive fairie fire counter attack. I do not know where the AI is failing with the aggression set to one, but this flaw made the level easy to walk through whereas if that had been working correctly it would have been VERY challenging...

I do not know if this page is relevant for this problem as my WML is basic at best and my LUA is non-existant but here's some info that at least sounded relevant to me: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide ... I_Behavior

"
Setting aspects in the [side] tag like this:

[ai]
aggression=0.123
[/ai]

does not work if the Lua engine is defined. You either need to use the [aspect] tag in the [side] tag with 'engine=lua', or use the code above in a [modify_side] tag in an event. Making the above syntax available (as it is with the c++ engine) would be nice. (I don't know if this should be considered a bug.)
"
As I think you have engined with lua for the attack_efraim(lethalia)_like_crazy functions? I don't know, just trying to throw out ideas of why that might not be working right as I think they SHOULD be attacking with their best attack regardless of the consequences.

I am also playing with ZERO murderlust items equiped as I believe that they would have made the levels far too easy. I also expect that as soon as I get absorb, which is always the first thing I gun for with Redeem it will again become impossible for my leaders to die. Also a thought on absorb is that it makes attacks like 10-7 WAY weaker than something like 35-2 or even 70-1 against the gods. In fact once absorb is leveled up to 4 and boosted to 5 with some easily obtained drain gloves and at a 50% resistance, any single attack below a 10 will actually HEAL a demigod, and the more attacks the more I'm getting healed. But those are thoughts from my previous playthrough, not this one(yet)

That's all I have for today, I will continue to play and keep notes and if you have anything in specific you would like me to try, let me know. And again, sorry for the really long post.

[Dugi]

Sorry for the delay, I didn't know what to say.

About the dragon, I might add there that second warning.

Chaos Rider AMLA "incinerating enemies with sword" applies to the fireball attack instead of the flaming sword.

Oops, not intended, will be fixed.

Knight of Magic can use staffs. (not as a weapon, but can pick it up, use it, and benefit from the effects)

That was intended. His sprite has a staff, so he can carry them. But he has no need to attack with it.

Any chance the Lancer can advance to Jouster with a Claymore like knock-back effect?...

Yes, why not. We just need to imagine some related appearance for him.

@ feareth if you level up the same unit you will find that said unit now has another level up line from the following

You forgot about Legacy of Sorrow, that adds auras that lower the damage of adjacent enemies. And all these legacies have the same chance to occur. Undead cannot have legacies, unless you played with them while they were living before. The legacy is determined shortly after that the unit is created, so you cannot change it by reloading until you get a desired one.

@Rodil
Thanks for the work. When it increases exponentially now, there is still a lot of advancements at the beginning, but then the gaps between advancements will get much larger, making it effectively impossible to survive thanks to advancing. Now I think that I might partially roll it back, making it add 20 experience AND 15 percent experience, to make it increase slower at the beginning, and faster by the end (limiting your total at about 30 advancements, that means you just cannot increase all defensive abilities too high without totally gimping attacking).

Your post is not overly long, you are writing to a person who has personally verified that the maximum length of a post is 60000 characters.

But I guess I should nerf absorb (make it more costy or limit it at 2 or 3).

This problem with the AI behaviour is practically unsolvable. The AI chooses the attack with aggression set to 0.5 no matter what (this fact is not much known, maybe that's why it wasn't in the wiki), even if it is your defensive retaliation and it will get you killed in several attacks. There is no way to overcome it, only to delete/disable other attacks somehow before attacking to make sure they will have only the most damaging one.

As I think you have engined with lua for the attack_efraim(lethalia)_like_crazy functions? I don't know, just trying to throw out ideas of why that might not be working right as I think they SHOULD be attacking with their best attack regardless of the consequences.

This was technically written by me, but I was literally copying mattsc's code (he is one of the very few people who can really work with AI, and he is the creator of the new AI for 1.11 branch that beats the standard AI in 5 cases out of 6). It adds a new possibility to the AI, and it is classified as less important than recruiting, but more important than attacking. This possibility is attacking Efraim or Lethalia. Therefore, if no recruiting is possible, the AI does all that can be done to attack Efraim or Lethalia (in the usual attacking way, choose the best unit and the best hex to attack), and then it comes to standard attacking. This was necessary, because normally AI has severe problems with attacking units that are too strong (even if it has units that are equally strong), making it contemplate about attacking for minutes. This makes the AI a bit dumber, but much faster. But they know who should be eliminated if they want to win the scenario.

And yes, something should be done about these AI problems, but I don't have time to argue about it now, as my last exam is coming soon.

Note that murderlust items's heal per kill effects don't stack.

[vanillared]

In the Chapter with Akula and the third Sun, I noticed that when I right click on one of my followers there is a Devour option. From what I can tell the only thing this accomplishes is killing my following. I cannot see any other benefits from using this interface options.

The only perceivable benefit I can see is when attacking Akula's main stronghold each area only allows me to load 19 units with me. If I use the Greater Spell: Soul Gate I can then weed out any chaff that are summoned from previous chapters.

Any better explanation would be helpful.

[Crow_T]

I've been playing this campaign a lot lately, it's awesome. Some bugs? Leth's axe lacks sound fx, and I'm not sure if this is by design, but if a unit has a potion applied, like holy water to make a weapon arcane, it is gone when they level up, as in a numerical level up, not a advanced one.

Also, I'm curious, to the people that play this a lot- is it better to start fresh when you beat a chapter, or to carry over units? Which seems more fun?

[TheZ]

@ crow_T
the potion thing is exposed to be that way. potion only lasts until unit advances (gains full or over full exp)
I personally think its more fun to continue on from the previous (you don't get a choice after 5 though, story line reasons) as you have all the effort you put into your units and all the gear you had (lucky drops etc) however that is from my point of view. If you enjoy challenges then i would start over "fresh". As far as unit carry over goes, there really isn't any point were you need more than 6 additional units. There two scenarios were this is not true but that is due more to one side being overpowering from normal units. Its more of a "what do you enjoy?" type of question, do you like having a "core" army of 2-8 decently powerful units or leveling a lot of avg powered units?

[Dugi]

I have completed my exams, so now I can return to Wesnoth and add the promised features.

@Vanillared The purpose of the Devour thing is explained when you first enter the dungeon. It llows you to get rid of weak units that are getting autorecalled and you don't want it (because only 10 units are autorecalled, an you might want to get only the strong ones). They can be recalled then with Soulgate, but only as the last ones on the list. So it has a purpose, but it is not particularly important.

[brot]

hi dugi
it would be nice if i can use Devour everytime
so i dont have to be cruel to my units xD
an rename it to "dismiss"


do u know the "mystery campaign"?
it would be nice if i can use ur units there

[Dugi]

What is the reason for Devour outside scenarios where units are autorecalled? You have the recall list and dismiss for that. A possibility to put units to the recall list would be easy to make, but it would become extremely easy to protect injured units.

I don't know the 'Mystery Campaign', but I don't have many knowledge about most add-ons (except IftU and a very few others).
But generally adding the units should be relatively easy, that is easier than adding items or such stuff. You would basically have to add this short code somewhere. The most lazy way to do it is to add it to the bottom of a _main.cfg file, that would all these units everywhere (excluding multiplayer). It might not work perfectly, I haven't tested it (I mean it may crash on loading, if it does reply what did it say, you might want to see stderr.txt to be able to copy&paste it, it is near the main .exe file). Some weapon specials, abilities and advancements will not do anything, because they would need a deeper change. I might modify that campaign later and send it to you if you'll want, or you might contact the author and ask him to add it (I will provide the code, no problemo).

Code: Select all

#define GENERIC_AMLA BASEFRAME CASTING_FRAME CASTING_FRAME2 BASEFRAME_FEMALE CASTING_FRAME_FEMALE 
	{AMLA}
[/unit_type]
#enddef
#define AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES
        [effect]
            apply_to=hitpoints
            increase_total=3
            heal_full=yes
        [/effect]
        [effect]
            apply_to=max_experience
            increase=20%
        [/effect]
#enddef
{~add-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/utils/abilities.cfg}
[+units]
{~add-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/units}
[/units]

[4b4b4b]

I am at a scenario called unimportant revolution, and Efraim loses all his advancements and items ( just like he has just been created ), what can i do?

[Dugi]

I cannot find an error there and others would have reported that bug if it was there. Can you please provide more infrmation, like version of wesnoth, version of LotI, when did it exactly happen, when did you update it for the lat time, and whether equipping something on him undid it?

[4b4b4b]

im using 1.11.1wesnoth, latest version of loti and it happened this morning when i reached that scenario. after using efraim in investigation and then using his daughter in gladiatrix, i arrived in an unimportant revolution with efraim at his basic form, i cant equip something on him because all my items are gone as well

edit:
i just tried and actually my items are there, but equipping it and unequipping it doesnt help

[brot]

Mystery Campaign:

i mostly understand banana u wrote
but i try to insert that code

its a random generated infinite level campaign
and ur units would suit nice there

hmm u might have a look at it
does the enemy have the new units too?
no items would be better otherwise its too easy

Edit: ur code does not work at all xD

[Dugi]

@4b4b4b It worked for me I have not altered it from then. There is probably something I cannot easily replicate, so please tell me more about it, especially the version of Legend of the Invincibles, the version of Wesnoth, information of recent updates about LotI and... It looks like if some events did not fire, or something was not stored properly, but it looks like if some cheating was included. Can you please reply all my questions? And attach a save file?

@brot I'll have a look at it, okay. Anyway, adding items would be significantly harder than adding units, because units are mostly just regular units, nothing weird.

__________________________________________________
I have done most of the changes that were asked for and I promised I'll do them. I also fixed some bugs, some were posted here, some were found by me.
Replies to these requests (kinda reformulated, some of them were old and hard to find, I hope you'll get it):

You promised a multiplayer scenario version of the gladiator style scenarios.
Done it. It might not be well balanced yet, but its difficulty is adjustable, so I would like to see some feedback.

Add an advancement to Lancer, a unit named Jouster...
Partially done. I named him Lunatic Knight, didn't give him higher resistances, but he has knockback and can learn hit and run.

Converging advancement paths suck.
After all these months... solved. All units have a unique unit to advance to, although some are available for more than one unit (for example Chocobone advances only to Grim Knight, and Deathblade advances to Phantom, but Deathblade can also advance to Grim Knight), so I would say that this convergence is only optional now (if you don't like this, it is not a problem to remove it now).

There should be a way to see all information about a unit, because many times all attacks cannot be seen on the right panel.
Done, and more than that. In items menu, near crafting and item storage, you will now see an extra options to see the properties of the unit. It will inform you about all the attacks of that unit, their damages, range, availability in attacking and defending and weapon specials. Additionally, you will see all resistance penetrations the unit has and a list of all advancements the unit took. I had no idea what to write more, all other information can be seen in game.

There should be a way to break items for scrap to get gems.
Done. You will get a random gem if you break an item, and that option will be seen in any menu where an item is selected.

Some units should have more AMLA advancements, for example Champion Bowman has just damage improvements.
I added some advancements to units that had only a few of them. Many of the boring units became better now.

The new version is called 2.4.11.

Here is the possibly final version of advance trees (ideas are still welcome, though):