[interface] skip replays entirely

[BuBu]

Hello,

Many countries don't have a good net service and when we are on-line sometime (when isnt every time) we could got a DC. So when you a player of MP on-line you have to watch all the replay to get the right turn. So in this situation you know very well game, because you saw every play, but when you got a DC you have to see everything again, with fast replay make your suffering smaller. You see a replay with 10 turn it is ok, but in 50 or 100 turns it will take 30 min or 1 hour (this weak friendship, no one want wait for you).

If you already play the addons SXC or SXRPG you will understand better this (try to play and DC and re-enter). Those game are long games.

So after all this bla bla bla ... i ask, could the player that is playing the game after a DC, SKIP the replays? This will be very better for don't end good plays.

[Pentarctagon]

The only way I can see 50-100 turns taking that long to get through is if you are watching them at normal speed. There is an accelerate speed option in Preferences that lets you increase the speed up to 16x normal.

[BuBu]

The only way I can see 50-100 turns taking that long to get through is if you are watching them at normal speed. There is an accelerate speed option in Preferences that lets you increase the speed up to 16x normal.

I usually use 8x (this dont do much difference) and "fast replays".

Try to play on-line the add-on SXRPG "WINZARD OF WAR 2" or "EVIL DEAD" play in beginner mode and survive until turn 30 and make a dc with a friend and after re-enter in the game.

After tell me what happened.

[Iris]

Since this isn’t a support request, I’m moving it to Ideas (despite it’s a very half-baked proposal).

Also, we can understand you just fine without underlined text.

EDIT: Actually, one way this could be patched would be if the game had a way to identify MP games it’s already joined before; perhaps if the server sent some kind of unique game id that clients could remember during the same session (maybe for a limited time between client restarts too?).

[BuBu]

Also, we can understand you just fine without underlined text.

ok, i like to emphasis . i will avoid that.

EDIT: Actually, one way this could be patched would be if the game had a way to identify MP games it’s already joined before; perhaps if the server sent some kind of unique game id that clients could remember during the same session (maybe for a limited time between client restarts too?).

That will be good for player auto-get his place in the game without need re-control his side.

I dont know if it work ... but inst easier put one more check box like "quick replays" for " skip replays". What do you think?

Other thing: When you are watching a replay you cant receive whispers, so you only will see your whispers when you get in the actual turn that all is playing. So when you arrive in the right turn the game could be ended and they could started another game and you lost your slot in the NEW game and will only watch again.

Usually me and some people dont pay much attention in replays (we really want is play or talk with our friends that is in that game and watch the actual playing) ...

[Insinuator]

The only way I can see 50-100 turns taking that long to get through is if you are watching them at normal speed. There is an accelerate speed option in Preferences that lets you increase the speed up to 16x normal.

Oh, trust me, it happens. My brother just had this happen to him. It took him 20 minutes to get through 7 turns of a recent MP game we played. He was watching at 16X speed, but his computer would only go so fast. The hardware is the limitation here. And maybe because we had 9 players.

EDIT: Actually, one way this could be patched would be if the game had a way to identify MP games it’s already joined before; perhaps if the server sent some kind of unique game id that clients could remember during the same session (maybe for a limited time between client restarts too?).

I think it would need to be a persistent ID because sometimes a player can get disconnected because their whole computer crashes. They have to reboot and then restart their Wesnoth client all over. It would be nice too if, instead of prompting the Host to transfer control of the disconnected party, they would default to a "reserved for Whoever" status. So, basically, whenever the client reconnected with the same name, he would be plugged right back in. This would make it easier for the Host too, especially if they're ignorant of the "Control" command. Of course, maybe this is a just a dreamy wish list.

[Gambit]

It's never been clearly explained why the replay can't be skipped entirely. At least, not in my memory.

[Sapient]

It was done this way because gamestate is maintained on the clients, not on the server.
In order to recreate the gamestate, the server must send the replay of moves and attacks to the client.

YogiHH looked into it a long time ago and concluded that sending a fresh copy of gamestate to rejoining clients would cause a huge increase in network traffic (way more than the server could handle at that time).

Although I have significant doubts about both his analysis and conclusions, no one knew the relevant code better than he did, so his conclusions were accepted. I suspect if someone were determined enough they could find a reasonable way to make it work, although bringing about this change may result in large code and design changes, introduction of bugs, etc.

[Gambit]

Could the rejoining client receive the steps and use them to recreate the state without displaying them all? Not playing at all would still be faster than playing them at 16x speed right?

[Sapient]

If you have quick replays turned on, then it shouldn't be showing the attack animations at all... unless my memory has completely failed me. If animations are playing then that is a problem and should be corrected. However, eliminating ALL visual feedback is a bad idea. No one wants to stare at a blank screen for any lengthy amount of time.

[ancestral]

However, eliminating ALL visual feedback is a bad idea. No one wants to stare at a blank screen for any lengthy amount of time.

Perhaps that’s the solution. Let it recreate the game state without drawing visuals.

Surely it would save a significant amount of time if the game avoided drawing all visuals for the replay and instead display a loading dialog to the user until it catches up with the current turn, right? I couldn’t make an educated guess, but if it took 3 minutes to watch a replay in 16x with visuals perhaps it might take a fraction of the same time. If it was less than half a minute that’d be well worth it.

[Insinuator]

It was done this way because gamestate is maintained on the clients, not on the server.
In order to recreate the gamestate, the server must send the replay of moves and attacks to the client.

Maybe I'm getting in over my head, but if the gamestate is maintained on the clients, why can't they just use their last known gamestate when they reconnect? As long as the other players pause, that would work right?

I like Ancestral's idea of a loading screen, although that would start to get annoying if it lasted for more than a minute or so.

[Sapient]

Maybe I'm getting in over my head, but if the gamestate is maintained on the clients, why can't they just use their last known gamestate when they reconnect? As long as the other players pause, that would work right?

That's actually not a bad idea... it might be a great approach for tackling the issue and even reduce server load. To be honest, though, I'm not that familiar with the server code so I'm not sure how simple it would be in practice to make this change.

I like Ancestral's idea of a loading screen, although that would start to get annoying if it lasted for more than a minute or so.

If it turns out the bottleneck is sending the replay itself over the internet, then speeding up the visuals may not matter one iota. I find myself agreeing in principle, however, that a progress bar might be preferrable. I'm not sure what you are getting at by 16x animation, because animations should not be playing at all during a quick replay, IIRC. Another problem is when the replay falsely thinks it has "caught up" because it reaches the turn number that was current turn when the client first attempted to connect, but it may have progressed several times since that request. Animation speed is relevant during those last "catch up" turns, but that is a separate issue (that is, a known bug).

[Insinuator]

If it turns out the bottleneck is sending the replay itself over the internet, then speeding up the visuals may not matter one iota. I find myself agreeing in principle, however, that a progress bar might be preferrable. I'm not sure what you are getting at by 16x animation, because animations should not be playing at all during a quick replay, IIRC. Another problem is when the replay falsely thinks it has "caught up" because it reaches the turn number that was current turn when the client first attempted to connect, but it may have progressed several times since that request. Animation speed is relevant during those last "catch up" turns, but that is a separate issue (that is, a known bug).

Well, at least in my experience, the bottleneck is the computer processing the replay. Of course, this will vary significantly and I'm not saying it is the problem the majority of times. And to be clear, I'm not speaking of the "Quick Replay" option, but of a regular replay. To be honest, I often forget to check the "Quick Replay" option when I load a replay up, so I'm usually stuck with 16x animations.

[BuBu]

So, after all ... is possible skip replays or make it faster? (could work in wesnoth in new versions ?)