Divisions of the day

[rmj]

I was going to have an opponent give the goods guys one hour to surrender, but I wonder if there is such a thing as an hour in Wesnoth. Is there only the six divisions (dusk, first watch, etc.) that are used?

[Crendgrim]

Normally, yes.
Though you're able to create as many divisions as you like in your own scenarios / campaigns.
Look here for further information: TimeWML


Crend

[rmj]

Though you're able to create as many divisions as you like in your own scenarios / campaigns.
Look here for further information: TimeWML

I am not concerned with creating divisions of time, but rather if words like hour and minute should be used. Does 'hour' fit into the Wesnothian theme.

[Bennoman]

Hi,

I would be of the opinion to keep to hours and minutes, just because its something familiar. If we were replace hours and minutes, you then have to consider how time is recorded and divided, and then you come across the problem of how long is a day in Wesnorth? What suddenly becomes an exercise in adding a bit of cultural flavor suddenly becomes math!

However how days are organised in years would be a much better way to add a bit more distinctiveness to it... I mean we're used to weeks and months, what if you organised them into semesters or simply numbers?

[Pewskeepski]

Well, there are 6 divisions and 24 hours in a day. Divide 24 by 6 and you get 4. So there are 4 hours for every division. Which means you easily make them say "You have 4 hours to surrender." If that would work.

[Captain_Wrathbow]

IMHO, "hour" isn't the best word in this case. Why not say something like, "You have until dusk to surrender." (obviously replacing "dusk" with your time of choice.)

[Neuromancer]

Hour is better.

[Captain_Wrathbow]

...but for reasons that have already been stated, "hour" doesn't make sense within the game's timescale. It would have to be something like "You have four hours to surrender", which sounds odd and is hard for the player to interpret.

[Crommy]

Nice question and I never stumbled over it translating campaigns. Quite odd, I think.

In the context of playing Wesnoth, nobody would object "an hour", because for every player its so common to measure time in small units like "hours" . Although, there are good reasons to object it, as:
- missing watches in wesnoth
- considering the talking persons being from different cultural backgrounds that may influence the subdivision of the the watches, which are considered "organic" - dusk & dawn depends on the setting and rising sun, day may be divided in the two parts of rising and setting sun, the night is just handled the same as you might check the rising or setting of certain stars (check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_time). In the night - well, go for the setting stars .

Underground makes life different - One solution would be the reference to something everybody knows
- like "The battle stops as long this torch is on fire, but then...".
- Or "as long this bard needs to finish the tale of The Breaking of the Pact" or another well known Wesnotian heroic legend.
- A nice variation of "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candle_clock" might be to push a sword / knife through a pole and burn the pole from one end - somewhen the sword /knife drops down.

You might even let a mage invent some weird clocklike thingy what might even be good enough for a secondary storyline. Anyhow, a too big distraction from the story should be avoided - in the end - go for simplicity, I would say.

[Guo-Jia]

Nice question and I never stumbled over it translating campaigns. Quite odd, I think.

In the context of playing Wesnoth, nobody would object "an hour", because for every player its so common to measure time in small units like "hours" . Although, there are good reasons to object it, as:
- missing watches in wesnoth
- considering the talking persons being from different cultural backgrounds that may influence the subdivision of the the watches, which are considered "organic" - dusk & dawn depends on the setting and rising sun, day may be divided in the two parts of rising and setting sun, the night is just handled the same as you might check the rising or setting of certain stars (check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_time). In the night - well, go for the setting stars .

Now, I don't know for sure how time was measured in medieval times, but I must point out that the division of day into 24 hours is a Sumerian invention. So, its not so strange to use hours in Wesnoth, in the parrallel age in the real word they used them too.

[Crommy]

Now, I don't know for sure how time was measured in medieval times, but I must point out that the division of day into 24 hours is a Sumerian invention. So, its not so strange to use hours in Wesnoth, in the parrallel age in the real word they used them too.

True - we may assume 24 hours being a "common idea" and valid for wesnoth, but still, we may think what would be an appropriate way of measuring (roughly) one tiny hour - e.g. in a battle situation. I just thought about, what might be practical to do?

(As I just learned (praise wiki) - the sumerians even calculated different lengths of hours to fit unequal day/night durations during the year to the 12hours day / 12hours model. Cool. And please - if somebody find a page explaining why the summerians used a 12-based system, please tell me - just maximising the number of primes sounds too sophisticated for me.

Edit: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesima ... nd_Fingern sounds like a handy explanation, I could not find it in the English wiki, though. Basically, you use one hand for counting - say your left thumb to count the 3 parts of each remaining 4 left fingers - you end up with twelve. Considering, that counting might be motivated by not liking being duped while bargaining, you have one hand to handle objects, the other you use for counting. That sounds like a good reason for a 12-based system for me. You may easily count to 60, if you use your fingers of the right hand as a memory for dozens - 5x12=60 (e.g. possible if you let pass your sheep by one by one . If you now put into account, that dividing is easy due to all the prime numbers, you really have a handy system. - well, just for completeness, as this is now really far from the topic)

[Mountain_King]

And please - if somebody find a page explaining why the summerians used a 12-based system, please tell me - just maximising the number of primes sounds too sophisticated for me.)

While that might not be the reason why, there's no reason not to believe the Sumerians and ancient peoples weren't "sophisticated enough" to use that reasoning. I mean, they used a base-60 number system rather than a simpler base-10 system (and how about those Chaldeans?). Their neighbours across the fertile crescent were building the pyramids around the same time, which we still haven't entirely figured out. So what's wrong with sophisticated Sumerians?

And back on topic, in HTTT, scenario Siege of Elensefar the loyal thieves tell Conrad to meet him at the riverbank two hours after midnight. They show up at second watch. See, it's not too hard to have short time periods (like hours) in a Wesnoth campaign, you just have to make it clear by context what exactly you're talking about.

Best Regards,
Mountain_King

[TheBladeRoden]

Don't great mages have watches?

Or is that a compass?

[Dixie]

OT: isn't rather a flammie drum?

Anyway, I might be mistaken, but I think most of you are missing the point. I think it was not so much the words/concepts of "hour" "minutes" and the calendar that were called into question, but rather the pertinance of those words in the context of the game mechanics. I think you'd be better off sticking to clearer marks, like dusk, sun down, twilight, noon, midnight, whatever else you may fancy.