[SPOILERS]Conflicts in lore and Delfador's Memoirs[SPOILERS]

[KunoNoOni]

I was reading the campaign dialogue for DM when it dawned on me that there seems to be a conflict with what is happening in the story, with what the history states.

The history states this under the heading 470 YW: "Orcs under Great Chief Zorlan and undead raised by the necromancer Iliah-Malal raid Wesnoth's borders. All but the first and last scenarios of Delfador's Memoirs take place in this year."

In DM there are references to King Garard II, Queen Asheviere, Prince Eldred and the battle and betrayal at the Ford of Abez.

Here are where the conflicts occur:

Scenario 20: Prince Of Wesnoth
Scenario 21: Clash At The Manor

The conflicts themselves:
(for references look here and here)

This campaign, with exceptions of the first and last scenarios, takes place in the year 470. If that is so then how can any of the above people be mentioned?

Garard II would have been a prince during the time this campaign takes place. Yet there are references to him being the new king.

Garard II and Asheviere weren't married until 478. But there are references to her being the Queen.

Prince Eldred wasn't born until 480... 10 years after DM is suppose to have taken place! So how can Delfador talk about the Queen and her being the mother of Prince Eldred.

The battle and betrayal at the Ford of Abez doesn't happen until 501...31 years after DM!

So which do we believe? Does the History trump the Campaign? I thought the History was derived from the Campaigns? This is kinda confusing...


-KunoNoOni

[melinath]

This is why the Lore Collection project is happening. For now, I'd stick with the campaigns being right all the time, and we'll resolve the conflicts once everything is collected and we can see just what the conflicts are.

Thanks, though, for pointing this out! Now don't forget it before we can do something to change it.

P.S. - if anyone does fix this before 1.8, please let me know.

[KunoNoOni]

Your welcome To be honest I wouldn't have found it had I not been doing research for the campaign I took over, A Seed of Evil. I just wanted to get my facts straight before I changed anything in it.

I do have one question which came first? The history or the campaign?


KunoNoOni

[lostnumber]

Your welcome To be honest I wouldn't have found it had I not been doing research for the campaign I took over, A Seed of Evil. I just wanted to get my facts straight before I changed anything in it.

I do have one question which came first? The history or the campaign?


KunoNoOni

As Delfadors memoirs is not yet mainline, I would assume that any inconsistencies are the fault of that specific campaign.

Mainline campaigns are more or less gospel where historical lore is concerned.

[KunoNoOni]

Huh? DM comes with the install of BfW and there are references to it in the History of Wesnoth. Wouldn't that make it mainline or am I misunderstanding the term?


-KunoNoOni

[melinath]

lostnumber is incorrect. DM is mainline as of 1.7. Also, since mainline campaigns are inconsistent, they can't really be considered gospel - yet they are.

In this case, the history came first - I think that the writer of DM tried to fit into the current history.

Thinking back, though - don't the last few scenarios of DM take place a lot later than everything else?

[KunoNoOni]

The way its written you would think so, but like I quoted before

The history states this under the heading 470 YW: "Orcs under Great Chief Zorlan and undead raised by the necromancer Iliah-Malal raid Wesnoth's borders. All but the first and last scenarios of Delfador's Memoirs take place in this year."

-KunoNoOni

[melinath]

Hm. Apologies. Getting tired.

[lostnumber]

lostnumber is incorrect. DM is mainline as of 1.7. Also, since mainline campaigns are inconsistent, they can't really be considered gospel - yet they are.

My understanding is that it was in the process of getting mainlined, not that it was finished.

Also 1.7 is not yet a stable release so I wasn't considering it for the purposes of whats mainline and whats not.

That being said, I'm not an expert on Wesnoth history so I'll defer to you on lore inconsistencies.

I always thought that the mainline campaigns were entirely canon, since as far as I know they are the only real source for lore and history in the game.

[Aethaeryn]

lostnumber is incorrect. DM is mainline as of 1.7. Also, since mainline campaigns are inconsistent, they can't really be considered gospel - yet they are.

My understanding is that it was in the process of getting mainlined, not that it was finished.

Also 1.7 is not yet a stable release so I wasn't considering it for the purposes of whats mainline and whats not.

That being said, I'm not an expert on Wesnoth history so I'll defer to you on lore inconsistencies.

I always thought that the mainline campaigns were entirely canon, since as far as I know they are the only real source for lore and history in the game.

I think melinath's point is that mainline campaigns (now that there's so many of them; compare with 1.2) are inconsistent between themselves so it's hard to draw canon from them...

[KunoNoOni]

I would have to agree with this, which is why there is a Lore Collection project

-KunoNoOni

[esr]

IThe history states this under the heading 470 YW: "Orcs under Great Chief Zorlan and undead raised by the necromancer Iliah-Malal raid Wesnoth's borders. All but the first and last scenarios of Delfador's Memoirs take place in this year."

The timeline had a minor in this regard, which I have corrected. It now says "All but the first and last three scenartios." The last two were added after I wrote that. Most of the campaign takes place in 470; Prince of Wesnoth, Clash at the Manor, and Face of the Enemy take place 26 years later, in 496. At this point Garard II has married Asheviere (in 478) and Eldred is 16 years old.

There is a paragraph at the beginning of Clash at the Manor which anticipates the betrayal at the Ford of Abez, which will not occur until 501. It was written in historical past from the point of view after 501; looking at it now I can see how it might make a reader think the betrayal has already happened in 496. I'll fix that.

[savescummer]

Many thanks to esr for clearing up the HoW webpage a year and a half ago. However, the inspiration for the error, timeline.txt in DM, remains unchanged. It reads: "470 YW: * Orcs under Great Chief Zorlan and undead raised by the necromancer Iliah-Malal raid Wesnoth's borders. All but the first and last scenarios of Delfador's Memoirs take place in this year." Clearing up the canon would be a lot simpler if it were done thoroughly and consistently. Further, I don't blame esr for missing this as I fell into the same trap earlier today. The Lore Collections are not complete until they include the comments and side notes like timeline.txt that you don't see when you play the campaign.