The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

[Eros]

Yes I agree. So what we need to do is toughen up the bandits (there is no logical explanation for a low turn limit) a lot and add some cactoses to the bandit branch. (IMHO keep the ring as its useful in the next scenario for a weak elf)

+ You deserve your place in the credits for testing

[Elvish_Hunter]

Actually you should not even notice or need to know that you use lua by using any action tag (also the ones not in wml-tags.lua); if you do, the core lua code should be improved.

Well, as you noticed that coding error raised a Lua error... I wonder what a WML beginner, without any clues on Lua, will think in such situation.

Great thing about being a campaign author is I can probably fix whatever problem I encounter in whatever add-on and go on .

I'm sure that you can.

As for changes in "First Contact", changing the main path path tiles to cave should indeed already be sufficient.

With the side effect to slow down also the recalled Elf. But, considering that the Elf has 6 MP, while most undead only 5, this means that he, or she, can move 1 hex more than enemy units.

Maybe the mudcrawlers for the bandit branch could be some Cactoses instead?

Good idea. It seems quite easy to do.

I am bored stiff of campaigns with X freebies that you can collect and I am even more bored of campaigns where there is one way of doing things. The player has to make choices and the harder they are the better. Above all it improves the game-play a lot.

On this line I think it would be great if we could modify A2-2 so the undead leader can die (or you can choose to ally to the dwarves) with a different story branch. The campaign is effectively done now. What we need is some more options either in new scenarios or hidden bits in scenarios or just straight plain choices. Here are some places where Grog makes some choices that we could let the player make instead.

1) To ally with the undead in A2-22) Elyssa could be presented with the option of joining the lich in A3 or there could be an option for if you lose that scenario.
3) Grog could choose to abandon the trolls at the end of A3 (not really a serious option)
4) There could be a way of fighting your way out of A4.
5) You could have an option of allying with the orcs in A5 6) Option to fight your way south in B1 rather than north in B2
7) Help the drakes in B4 rather than the humans

I think that 1 and 5 are very good contenders. Both would change parts of the campaign without changing the total story line. I would be happy to code them at least to brainstorm them though you will have to wait till I have more time, a LOT more time!

The main problem is to create choices and branches that have about the same difficult. And if not, the most difficult should give a bigger reward. That said, I'm happy to read that the you consider the campaign done, but there is still a lot of work to do. For example, yesterday I was able to get rid of NEAREST_UNIT in B3 by using [filter_adjacent]. It doesn't change anything and less code is used.
About allying with the Undead or the Dwarves... First of all, they tried many times to kill Elyssa, also in UtBS. How can she consider allying with them? And Grog is extremely loyal towards his people, so I think that he'll never abandon them. And, even if such alliance is made, then there will be no reason at all for the Trolls to leave.
Fighting your way out of A4? I'd like to have a bit more clarification on this. Maybe here (but not now) it could be branched to have a more difficult alternate A5, that maybe gives the chance to rescue Nog, that in UtBS is Grog's brother. Just saying.
Allying with Orcs? While from A6 onwards it could be easily done, Gryphons and Ogres will become enemies, then who kept the Humans captive in A5?
Fight your way south doesn't look good. Trolls are cave and mountains creatures, they don't like desert. And, at south of Grog's home, there is only desert, as we can see in UtBS.
We originally had the option to fight the Humans (status 3), but I removed it after your request. And this will lead to reworking of all the latest part of the campaign (B6 - C1 - C2 - B7).
Personally, I like the storyline as is now. Dialogues can be improved, sure, but that's Daravel's task.

Yes I agree. So what we need to do is toughen up the bandits (there is no logical explanation for a low turn limit) a lot and add some cactoses to the bandit branch. (IMHO keep the ring as its useful in the next scenario for a weak elf)

+ You deserve your place in the credits for testing

He already has. And, now that I remember an unanswered question, the Drake Ambassador shows up in B7 if you didn't killed him in A7.

[shadowblack]

I just stumbled upon a bug:

Happens if I move either Grog or Arcamenel (the Desert Shyde) to 26:3. Either way Elyssa does not move back, and the wall is not destroyed, as it should be. Haven't yet checked what happens if I move Elyssa there. Same thing if Elyssa herself goes there. Hopefully it has been fixed already.

Start of turn save attached.

*goes to check the other path*

EDIT: Also, one of the trolls appears inside the cave wall:

And see what happens if on turn 39 you move the ranger to 37:9 - that line makes no sense now that I have found the village...

[Elvish_Hunter]

Thank you for the bug report.
About the first bug: that is a Lua error (as above), and it was due to having xy= instead of x,y= in [scroll_to] at line 1341, so you know how to fix this. Small error codes, that the C++ engine simply ignored, Lua does not longer ignore.
About the second, I need to call NEAREST_HEX for every event that creates a Troll in villages here. I was in my to do list already
For the message, I just need to fix its locations.

[shadowblack]

You're welcome.

Okay, finished the scenario:

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.1, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.10.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 to 5, depending on luck with combat rolls

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Bad luck with combat rolls

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 – definitely more fun than the old version

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It seems fine as it is

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No


Thoughts:
The new, shorter, version of this scenario is definitely more fun than the old one – at the very least it doesn’t drag on unnecessarily, even though I took my time exploring and slaughtering all enemies (though I forgot to check the chasms – I’ll check them later just to see if I missed anything there). In the end I still had more than enough time left. In fact the only thing I didn’t like very much is that I didn’t get many chances to level up my trolls, but that was entirely my own fault.

Suggestion: Give some small reward (for example 10 gold) for killing that naga, so that it doesn’t seem like a complete waste of time.

[Eros]

The main problem is to create choices and branches that have about the same difficult. And if not, the most difficult should give a bigger reward. That said, I'm happy to read that the you consider the campaign done, but there is still a lot of work to do. For example, yesterday I was able to get rid of NEAREST_UNIT in B3 by using [filter_adjacent]. It doesn't change anything and less code is used.
About allying with the Undead or the Dwarves... First of all, they tried many times to kill Elyssa, also in UtBS. How can she consider allying with them? And Grog is extremely loyal towards his people, so I think that he'll never abandon them. And, even if such alliance is made, then there will be no reason at all for the Trolls to leave.
Fighting your way out of A4? I'd like to have a bit more clarification on this. Maybe here (but not now) it could be branched to have a more difficult alternate A5, that maybe gives the chance to rescue Nog, that in UtBS is Grog's brother. Just saying.
Allying with Orcs? While from A6 onwards it could be easily done, Gryphons and Ogres will become enemies, then who kept the Humans captive in A5?
Fight your way south doesn't look good. Trolls are cave and mountains creatures, they don't like desert. And, at south of Grog's home, there is only desert, as we can see in UtBS.
We originally had the option to fight the Humans (status 3), but I removed it after your request. And this will lead to reworking of all the latest part of the campaign (B6 - C1 - C2 - B7).
Personally, I like the storyline as is now. Dialogues can be improved, sure, but that's Daravel's task.

I am not suggesting that we should do it I am just saying that it isnt a bad idea. Sorry no time to finish this now.

[Anonymissimus]

I wonder what a WML beginner, without any clues on Lua, will think in such situation.

He can still read that something with a function called "play_sound" is wrong, so even without inspecting wml-tags.lua it is not far-fetched to look for [sound] tags. It is, however, also not far-fetched to look for problems with including the map if "a map without a header isn't supported"...

Btw the dwarf that appears and complains (id=village_dwarf) in "The homecoming" was attacked by another dwarf.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Version 2.10.3 is on the 1.9 server (hopefully). It includes fixes for all the bugs reported until now, plus some that I noticed on my own.
One important thing is that the version is still marked as 2.10.2. Why? Because modifying its version number to 2.10.3 in my PBL file gave me a C++ Runtime Error when trying to open the Add-Ons menu. Setting it back to 2.10.2 did the trick.

Suggestion: Give some small reward (for example 10 gold) for killing that naga, so that it doesn’t seem like a complete waste of time.

Done.

I am not suggesting that we should do it I am just saying that it isnt a bad idea. Sorry no time to finish this now.

Understood. I was only saying that, IMO, the only practicable alternatives were allying with Orcs and the alternate A5.

It is, however, also not far-fetched to look for problems with including the map if "a map without a header isn't supported"...

And, with such an error messages, in past I noticed several people, in WML Workshop, that the first thing that they did was opening the map file to see if it has such header. It's a bit cryptic as well...

Btw the dwarf that appears and complains (id=village_dwarf) in "The homecoming" was attacked by another dwarf.

Too much Dwarvish beer... Fixed, thanks.

[shadowblack]

Just a note: Because the version is still 2.10.2 the campaign does not show up when checking for updated campaigns. So people will have to manually download it again to get the new version (which is what I did), but only if they know there is a new version. If setting the version to 2.10.3 causes problems, then how about setting it to 2.10.2a, or directly to 2.10.4 (assuming that it does not cause the same problem)?

[Anonymissimus]

One important thing is that the version is still marked as 2.10.2. Why? Because modifying its version number to 2.10.3 in my PBL file gave me a C++ Runtime Error when trying to open the Add-Ons menu. Setting it back to 2.10.2 did the trick.

can't reproduce
can you post a more detailed way how to reproduce it ?
maybe wait for 1.9.2 (soon)

[Elvish_Hunter]

Just a note: Because the version is still 2.10.2 the campaign does not show up when checking for updated campaigns. So people will have to manually download it again to get the new version (which is what I did), but only if they know there is a new version. If setting the version to 2.10.3 causes problems, then how about setting it to 2.10.2a, or directly to 2.10.4 (assuming that it does not cause the same problem)?

I'm well aware of this problem. I assumed that, setting the version as any value (other than that already on the server) may have caused this error.

can't reproduce
can you post a more detailed way how to reproduce it ?
maybe wait for 1.9.2 (soon)

If you can't, chances are high that it's already fixed in trunk, and then in 1.9.2. So, I'll wait for that release. Should I face again such problem in 1.9.2, I'm available to upload a "dummy" add-on to prepare a complete bug report. Anyway, having version="2.10.3" in my _server.pbl crashed Wesnoth, while having version="2.10.2" didn't. The Runtime Error happened while trying to connect to the add-ons server. The bar stayed blocked at 0% and I obtained it.

[Eros]

Hi, I will download new version and play test. I have less than zero time at the moment but reading week is coming up! (Who says that reading week is for...reading).

KUTGWBTILATEOTTAASHSSIFTUWDHTWTTSLCIMMD

[Elvish_Hunter]

Hi, I will download new version and play test. I have less than zero time at the moment but reading week is coming up! (Who says that reading week is for...reading).

1.9.2 is almost out, so I'll have to update the campaign again (Gold Mage, Fire Guardian, etc.)

KUTGWBTILATEOTTAASHSSIFTUWDHTWTTSLCIMMD

In my view, the solution of these conflicts is simple: in UtBS, the player has choosen to side with Trolls. Trolls are so strong and mighty, have that secret weapon called White Troll, and Elyssa learned a lot from them, that nobody can stand against them. Not even Shaxthals.
And, the support to IftU may have been dropped, but see here... (AtS is the IftU sequel).
Some days ago, I restarted playtesting the campaign. As you know, I decided to keep the Gold Mage, and I noticed that having it makes A3 about the same difficult as leveling Elyssa as Great Mage, IMO. So, yesterday I recoloured Elyssa's portrait for when she levels as Gold:

elyssa-gold-1.png (88.62 KiB) Viewed 3712 times

This means also that I had to do an accelerated course on how to use the magic wand in Gimp. Two hours of work! I'm aware that there is still a small problem near her staff's orb, and probably I'll fix it either by copypasting something from her red portrait, or by blurring such part. Apart from this, I'll add it, do you agree?

[shadowblack]

Finally got around to completing the next two scenarios:

A Doubtful Alliance

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.1, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.10.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 to 4 depending on how (un)lucky you are. Add another point if you are trying to level up specific units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good. Loved the mini history lessons.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Leveling up certain units in preparation for the next scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 – fighting so many Guardsmen got rather annoying after a while, and my ally stealing a few of my kills didn’t help matters

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
See comments

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No


Thoughts:
Too many Guardsmen! I understand that they are the best defensive unit the dwarves have, but still – can we have a bit more variety in enemy forces?

Apart from that the scenario is nice and offers a chance to level up some trolls for the next one. Plus, as I think I mentioned before, it’s nice having the undead as an ally, for a change.

First Contact

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.1, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.10.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 because I was too stubborn and didn’t want to lose any units

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not losing any unit

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No changes – it’s fine as it is (at least if you have enough level 3 trolls)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had to reload a few times because a combination of my carelessness and some bad resulted in either Elyssa or Grog dying.


Thoughts:
Having to run away from a clearly stronger and more numerous foes makes the scenario different from most. And unlike other scenarios where you have to flee here it doesn’t feel forced – rather it seems necessary and fully justified.

I think I was a bit too aggressive this time, so I ended up having more trouble than in the previous version. But that also made things a bit more fun, and managing to rescue all units I lost was very satisfying.

Will I have to start from the beginning once the next version is released?

P.S.: So that's how the Section tag works. Nice!

[Elvish_Hunter]

Too many Guardsmen! I understand that they are the best defensive unit the dwarves have, but still – can we have a bit more variety in enemy forces?

The Guardsmen are placed at the scenario start as guardians. What about a mix of Guardsmen, Fighters and Thunderers (not Scouts, because they're weaker)?

Will I have to start from the beginning once the next version is released?

It depends. If you want to manually patch a start-of-scenario savegame, the answer is no, otherwise is yes. Due to the modified behaviour of [advancefrom] on 1.9.2, I'm now able to remove the custom unit line for Elyssa, but she will be still able to advance as Gold Mage. When I have released it, I'll explain how to patch the savegame.
By the way, you decided to advance Elyssa as Great Mage or as Gold Mage? If you choose Gold Mage, do you think that this unit is balanced enough?