The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Eros
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Eros »

Perfect. What I need to do is adding their high-res versions to the campaign and wire them. Should I find something else to add, I'll post. Ah, one more thing: did you found what's the source for our desert.png (now jpg) image? If not, I fear that I'll have to remove it and find another image.
Internet. Sorry but the ones on the forums will do fine instead.
I also looked at your new maps. I wasn't able to notice many changes, but I think that adding the volcanos like you did in B7 was a good idea The problem is that, in 1.9.0 and 1.9.1, a lot of new terrains were added! For example, I can think to mine rails, that will be perfect in A2-1, snowy orcish castles, perfect for A6, wooden floor, that may be useful for B4 and B5 on the human island.
Compatability. They arent meant to look any better I have just made them work. (Oh and I mod B7 a bit to make it look better and I made all the grass come in different types.) Not convinced about the mine rails but the snowy castles etc would be fab.
Finally, I found that in the units folder, we have the whole Desert Scout line that isn't used anywhere. Should I delete it, add it to B7 Elves' recruit list, or give an Elvish Scout in Prologue, only on Easy?
Remove it, though if we do delete the UtBS units from the campaign and import them it wont be a problem at all.
As per the white Troll, if you're aiming for coherence with mainline: White Trolls don't exist in any other campaign. You can either make them a shy, minority off-shoot that evolved after 'The Fall', make this particular one be the only one that was perhaps cast off and forced to live on the fringes of the Troll society - so wasn't captured/killed when the Dwarves invaded, or, as a result of experimenting with magic, this Troll was changed.
I like the first but probably this white troll is unique or very rare (Maybe "Albino Troll" would be better).
In fact, I like the third option... as I have said many times, the issues present in "homecoming" regarding the three paths led to the White Troll being placed in the bottom path to add value to taking the longest route - Perhaps Elyssa can mention that there was a mad, dangerous Troll as a result of a disastrous magical experiment who was locked in a cage in the southern tunnel. Or something
A2 is no longer as you remember it. :)

About the dialog if you want to come and do it GREAT! (You are much better than I am at dialog) I am just tyring to go through and iron out any really glaring things. As I am on a rather strenuous degree I dont have an excesive quantity of time for things like Wesnoth :(

But this is what I have done so far: update on the A4 dialog and new dialog for A5-7

Also commetns as per normal
  • When you have converted to 1.9 (in version 2.10.2) You or I need to go through and tidy up the code and comment appropriately.
  • Could we recall the white troll in the beginning of each scenario as he is a hero please?
  • Could we get the white troll to collapse the tunnel in A5 if he is alive.
  • The sighted event system we have (Thumbs up E_H) is excellent perhaps it could be put into a macro?
  • I want the drake ambassador from A7 to turn up in B7 somewhere.
and finally new walkthrough
Walkthrough:
Attachments
A7-Nemesis.cfg
(29.85 KiB) Downloaded 294 times
A6-Every_Troll_To_Do_His_Duty.cfg
(15.21 KiB) Downloaded 264 times
A5-Deep_Levels.cfg
(37.76 KiB) Downloaded 254 times
A4-Siege_Perilous.cfg
(20.57 KiB) Downloaded 256 times
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shadowblack
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by shadowblack »

Finally got around to trying version 2.10.1 of the campaign (just the first two scenarios, for now). The following is for the first one:
Spoiler:
By the way, is the problem on my side only, or or there something wrong if, after the replay ends, you start it from the beginning? I see the starting units double when I do that...
Attachments
TSoG-Those_Sand_Strewn_..._повторение2.gz
(26.37 KiB) Downloaded 241 times
TSoG-Those_Sand_Strewn_..._повторение1.gz
(24.4 KiB) Downloaded 205 times
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Daravel wrote:As I said when I started, I'm just so lazy and find it easier to do no work at all. A kick in the backside is all I need. Besides, all the work you're doing on new scenario's and changing plot lines, it's best if I wait until you have settled on the final campaign before I replay it.
The campaign is more or less settled, it will need only a new map for A5, replacing the lava pool in A2-1 (I will do it) and maybe a partial reworking of B1, but that's it. And no, it isn't in my style to give kicks "where the sun doesn't shine" :P
Eros wrote:Quote:
As per the white Troll, if you're aiming for coherence with mainline: White Trolls don't exist in any other campaign. You can either make them a shy, minority off-shoot that evolved after 'The Fall', make this particular one be the only one that was perhaps cast off and forced to live on the fringes of the Troll society - so wasn't captured/killed when the Dwarves invaded, or, as a result of experimenting with magic, this Troll was changed.

I like the first but probably this white troll is unique or very rare (Maybe "Albino Troll" would be better).
Quote:
In fact, I like the third option... as I have said many times, the issues present in "homecoming" regarding the three paths led to the White Troll being placed in the bottom path to add value to taking the longest route - Perhaps Elyssa can mention that there was a mad, dangerous Troll as a result of a disastrous magical experiment who was locked in a cage in the southern tunnel. Or something

A2 is no longer as you remember it. :)
Let me clarify a bit: this Troll is taken (with all due permissions, of course) from an old, and now abandoned, campaign that was made by the Wesnoth Italian Forum (it was never uploaded, by the way. If you want, one day I'll translate and post the plot that was originally imagined). If such Troll was outcasted from his tribe for other Trolls' fear, why should he go back and help them? Instead, I think to him this way: Zurg and his Shamas are aware that the birth of a White Troll is an extremely rare event. These Trolls have a magic/arcane potential greater than other Trolls (that explains also the white colour: white is the colour of arcane energy, faerie fire, lightbeams...), and thus receive a special training. As a part of their training, there is going hermit for a brief period, where they can absorb energy from rock and earth and experiment with their powers. Unfortunately, during this period, this Troll was caught by Dwarves, that thought to capture him and sale this rarity to someone, hence making great money (greedy Dwarves!). Any opinion?
shadowblack wrote:Finally got around to trying version 2.10.1 of the campaign (just the first two scenarios, for now). The following is for the first one:
Hi shadowblack, it's nice to see you here again! :) But I have to ask a thing: can you wait a few days to restart the campaign? I'm about to release 2.10.2 for Wesnoth 1.9.1, and your feedback on 1.9.1 will be more useful, because I putted the 1.8 release aside.
shadowblack wrote:So, do the mermen units from this scenario carry over to future scenarios, or are they gone for good (except for Esanoo)? I hope they’ll be available in C2…
Right now, they go away, but I always thought to replace the boats in C2 with them, as a reward for the player. I just never found the time to do it, also because sometime I prefer playing than coding :P
shadowblack wrote:In the code there’s something about having a unit with “type=Walking Corpse”. What’s that about? Side 1 can’t have a Walking Corpse, right?
You're right, but this code checks only if there is a Walking Corpse on the field, not if side 1 has one! In the later case, it should be

Code: Select all

[have_unit]
    side=1
    type=Walking Corpse
[/have_unit]
but this isn't our case.
shadowblack wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The note about Grog’s Inspire should be moved to this scenario. Also, the campaign description mentioned that this is part 1, but we can no longer start part 2 directly, so…
:?: I haven't removed hack start. You should still be able to start directly from 2, and in this case you're given the choice if you want Elyssa to be Great Mage or Gold Mage. If not, it's a bug - one that I can't fix, because here it works correctly.
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The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
shadowblack
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by shadowblack »

You're right, it is still possible to start Part 2 directly. It's just that now Part 1 and Part 2 are not next to each other for some reason (now Part 2 is several lines above Part 1), so I had gotten the wrong impression: that you can no longer start with Part 2.

And you're right about the Walking Corpse - looks like I misread something when looking at the code yesterday.

Okay, I'll wait. In the mean time I'll download and install 1.9.1. I still have a ton of 1.8.5 campaigns to finish, so I have not yet tried the new version, but this seems as good a time as any to do so. :)

So, is it worth getting the mudcrawler? Both times I played A0 I went the beach/mudcrawlers route, never the bandit route.

P.S.: I like your idea about the background of White Trolls in general, and this one in particular.
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

shadowblack wrote:You're right, it is still possible to start Part 2 directly. It's just that now Part 1 and Part 2 are not next to each other for some reason (now Part 2 is several lines above Part 1), so I had gotten the wrong impression: that you can no longer start with Part 2.
It looks like I'll have to add rank= to the main.cfg.
shadowblack wrote:So, is it worth getting the mudcrawler? Both times I played A0 I went the beach/mudcrawlers route, never the bandit route.
Yes, it is worthy because it is an AMLA unit that can go to about Level 2 and in 2.10.1 will be autorecalled in every scenario, like the White Troll. I was thinking to give the chance to the player of getting both the ring and the mudcrawler, by removing the variable check: if we have a good player that can go both ways, why shouldn't be rewarded? Eros?
shadowblack wrote:P.S.: I like your idea about the background of White Trolls in general, and this one in particular.
Glad to read this. Now I'll wait for Eros' and Daravel's comments. :)
Current maintainer of these add-ons, all on 1.16:
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Eros »

Yes, it is worthy because it is an AMLA unit that can go to about Level 2 and in 2.10.1 will be autorecalled in every scenario, like the White Troll. I was thinking to give the chance to the player of getting both the ring and the mudcrawler, by removing the variable check: if we have a good player that can go both ways, why shouldn't be rewarded? Eros?
No! the mudcrawler is a bonus for having gone the hard way. If the player knows the options having a choice is good for strategy. (It also makes the scenario play a lot "nicer").

Keep up the good work.

+ Welcome back, ShadowBlack (Aliteration not intended)
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Eros wrote:No! the mudcrawler is a bonus for having gone the hard way.
Understood. I obey. :)
Yesterday I wired the new story screens in the campaign. I, however, noticed a thing: IMHO there wasn't any that was appropriate for Prologue, B1 and Conclusion, that are mainly story-telling. I started thinking and, inspired by the story screens in Flight to Freedom, and following JAP's instructions on how to make a photo looking like oil painting, I decided to make one. I took my trusty cellphone and a book (yes, I wanted to use an ancient book or a scroll, but these days there aren't so many available :P ) and started shooting photos. I made it sepia, to give it that ancient aura, used Gimp's oil painting filter and blurred all the lines, as JAP said. This is the result, do you like it?
book 9.jpg
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Eros »

Understood. I obey.
:!:
Yesterday I wired the new story screens in the campaign. I, however, noticed a thing: IMHO there wasn't any that was appropriate for Prologue, B1 and Conclusion, that are mainly story-telling. I started thinking and, inspired by the story screens in Flight to Freedom, and following JAP's instructions on how to make a photo looking like oil painting, I decided to make one. I took my trusty cellphone and a book (yes, I wanted to use an ancient book or a scroll, but these days there aren't so many available ) and started shooting photos. I made it sepia, to give it that ancient aura, used Gimp's oil painting filter and blurred all the lines, as JAP said. This is the result, do you like it?
The story images are a very good part of Flight. In the flight to freedom story pages the text is actually about the story but it would be good. Maybe a title page one and a first page for S1 and a last page for B7. You could have them inbetween but dont over do it. maybe hust one saying part 2 in S2/B1.
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Eros wrote: In the flight to freedom story pages the text is actually about the story but it would be good. Maybe a title page one and a first page for S1 and a last page for B7. You could have them inbetween but dont over do it. maybe hust one saying part 2 in S2/B1.
OK. For now, I'll add this one (I spent some time making it, and you, not being an artist, exactly like me, can comprehend me... :) ). When I'll feel inspired to do it, maybe I'll try. I agree that FtF story images are good, but using sprites in a story screen isn't the best looking solution either.
Can you kindly give me me your opinion about my latest background on White Trolls?
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Eros »

but using sprites in a story screen isn't the best looking solution either.
No, but the books are good which is what I meant.
Let me clarify a bit: this Troll is taken (with all due permissions, of course) from an old, and now abandoned, campaign that was made by the Wesnoth Italian Forum (it was never uploaded, by the way. If you want, one day I'll translate and post the plot that was originally imagined). If such Troll was outcasted from his tribe for other Trolls' fear, why should he go back and help them? Instead, I think to him this way: Zurg and his Shamas are aware that the birth of a White Troll is an extremely rare event. These Trolls have a magic/arcane potential greater than other Trolls (that explains also the white colour: white is the colour of arcane energy, faerie fire, lightbeams...), and thus receive a special training. As a part of their training, there is going hermit for a brief period, where they can absorb energy from rock and earth and experiment with their powers. Unfortunately, during this period, this Troll was caught by Dwarves, that thought to capture him and sale this rarity to someone, hence making great money (greedy Dwarves!). Any opinion?
I like sort of. Yes, he is revered, adored etc, a bit like white elephants in Thailand. They are adored but they choose the hermit life. (Where they are visited by other trolls seeking advice etc) Maybe this one came from a long way away so Zurg hasnt met him (or how would Elyssa not know of him at least). Other than that I like.
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Version 2.10.2 for Wesnoth 1.9.1 is on the server. This one will be the only 1.9.1 compatible (at least I suppose) version: due to some changes in trunk, like the mainlining of the Fire Guardian, and the modified behaviour of [advancefrom], that will allow me to remove the custom Elyssa's unit line, except for the Gold Mage, the next release will be compatible only with Wesnoth 1.9.2.
The main thing that I made for this release was destroying a large amount of unused or unuseful stuff, but also updating some maps and adding a complete set of story art made by JAP, vonHalenbach and me (well, I'll be honoured if someone other than me will call my book story screen as "art"...). Complete changelog is included in the campaign, as usual.
Eros wrote:They are adored but they choose the hermit life. (Where they are visited by other trolls seeking advice etc) Maybe this one came from a long way away so Zurg hasnt met him (or how would Elyssa not know of him at least). Other than that I like.
Then, when rewriting the dialogue, the most important thing will be avoiding a dualism between Zurg and Gong (that is the name of this White Troll). However, nobody forbids that Zurg as well may seek advice from this White Troll. Or maybe, they're brothers, like Grog and Nog (if I remember correctly). There are some solutions to avoid dualism, like we avoided dualism between Zurg and Elyssa. :)
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Anonymissimus »

Here's wmlscope in the way I mentioned, with the resulting command line:

(I wouldn't trust wmlscope here, but at least you can try removing that stuff. And you can make macros defined in scenarios local to them using #undef.)

Code: Select all

# Invocation: E:\\Programme\\WesnothTrunk\\data\\tools\\wmlscope --crossreference --from E:\\Programme\\WesnothTrunk\\userdata\\data\\add-ons\\The_Sojournings_of_Grog --refcount 0 --force-used terrain\\ E:\\Programme\\WesnothTrunk\\userdata\\data\\add-ons\\The_Sojournings_of_Grog E:\\Programme\\WesnothTrunk\\data\\core\\macros
# Working directory: E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\tools_bats
#Cross-reference time: 3 seconds
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\utils\inspire.cfg", line 6: global macro ABILITY_INSPIRE_LEVEL_1 is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\utils\dialog-macros.cfg", line 206: global macro CHECK_SECOND_UNIT is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\utils\dialog-macros.cfg", line 171: global macro CHECK_UNIT is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\utils\tsog-deaths.cfg", line 89: global macro HUMANS_BIG is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\scenarios\B6-The_Back_Door.cfg", line 268: global macro OBJECTIVES_HUMANS_DIE is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\scenarios\B4-Waves_and_Waves.cfg", line 390: global macro OBJECTIVES_STATUS_3 is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\utils\tsog-deaths.cfg", line 52: global macro OGRE_ROLE is unused
"E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\utils\special-notes.cfg", line 7: global macro SPECIAL_NOTES_CAMOUFLAGE is unused
Resource E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\images\halo\karrag-defend_halo.png is unused
Resource E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\images\units\elves-desert\corrupted-elf-attack.png is unused
Resource E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\images\units\elves-desert\corrupted-elf-defend.png is unused
Resource E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\images\units\elves-desert\corrupted-elf.png is unused
Resource E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\images\units\elves-desert\eloh-serene.png is unused
Resource E:\Programme\WesnothTrunk\userdata\data\add-ons\The_Sojournings_of_Grog\images\units\monsters\brazier-whelpling.png is unused
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Thanks Anonymissimus, also for the answer about Lua that you sent me via PM. I'll try putting something simple, like wesnoth.message, with :lua and see what happens, for a start. Sooner or later, I hope that I'll be able to write a custom tag from scratch.
About this wmlscope output, I'll try copypasting it in my command line and see if the output is the same or not. It's a pity that wmlscope doesn't have an --unused parameter to have the same result in a documented and more obvious way (maybe will be good as a feature request, but I have no idea on how much work will be for ESR). Most of the things listed are unused and will be removed (like I removed a lot of other stuff), while some are just not yet implemented.
I'll have also to fix some wmlscope mismatched references, but probably I'll just use # wmlscope: start ignoring for them.
If you want, and if you like it, of course you can use my book story screen in TEG. :)
Current maintainer of these add-ons, all on 1.16:
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Anonymissimus »

Elvish_Hunter wrote:I'll have also to fix some wmlscope mismatched references, but probably I'll just use # wmlscope: start ignoring for them.
Don't really know what mismatched references are good for; it seems to be some check that you should not pass a wrong type of attribute to a function, like calling foo(int bar) with foo("some_string") or so; but that results undoubtedly in the macro not working at all. Thus most of the time it seems rather useless and disturbing.
If you want, and if you like it, of course you can use my book story screen in TEG. :)
The book is not quite old enough. Other than that I like it. Maybe use a bible (some church) ?
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
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Re: The Sojournings of Grog (3.0 for 1.9.x coming soon)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Anonymissimus wrote:Don't really know what mismatched references are good for; it seems to be some check that you should not pass a wrong type of attribute to a function, like calling foo(int bar) with foo("some_string") or so; but that results undoubtedly in the macro not working at all.
Exactly what I think. For example, in A3 the failsafe code if the player doesn't have enough Trolls have:

Code: Select all

{GENERIC_UNIT 1 "Troll Whelp" recall recall}
"recall" is valid, because this creates the unit in the recall list. But wmlscope complains about being different than signature, with something that sounds like "expected numeric, got string".
Anonymissimus wrote:The book is not quite old enough. Other than that I like it. Maybe use a bible (some church) ?
Good that you like it :) Believe me or not, but that book has 23 years. This is the reason why I wrote "I wanted to use an ancient book or a scroll, but these days there aren't so many available". Usually churches have pretty recent Bibles, so it is out of question. Maybe, if one day I'll find an old enough book, or a GPL-compatible photo with a decent resolution (and both things aren't easy to do), I'll try redoing it.
I said that, for doing it, I was inspired by FtF. For everyone's information, this is the original photo used in FtF:
Image
Due to its low resolution, only 640 x 480, and despite having a compatible license, I decided to redo something similar, and with a resolution closer to those used by JAP.
Current maintainer of these add-ons, all on 1.16:
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
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