The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

[shadowblack]

Scenario 11:

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4, Grunt (not that it matters)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 – harder than it looks at first, but easier than I expected

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Reaching the target location quickly enough, without getting blocked by the orcs and before the drakes could overwhelm the defenders

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Since this is the easiest difficulty:
1) Don’t let the orcs recruit any level 3s
2) Give each human leader an extra recruiting hex (and maybe a little more gold)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, I didn’t realize that the temple on the small island (yes, the same temple that is not shown in the replay) counts as part of the human lands, so when the griffon took the whip that was inside: “Surprise! You lost!”


Thoughts:
1) “What? The orcs can recruit level 3s?”
2) “My allies have so few recruiting spaces? Well, at least they can recruit some level 2s…”
3) “Eh? That temple also counts as human territory? Crap!”
4) “Those drakes sure are lucky!”

I had no time for more thoughts because Ormron reached his destination and the scenario ended.

Overall the scenario is not hard, as long as you don’t let the orcs block Ormron’s path, and as long as you don’t take too long, else the drakes will surely overwhelm the humans and kill at least one leader (most likely the Ranger, as he’s closest to them).

[Anonymissimus]

so the point is: there is any problem if two or more units have the same role?

There isn't, I use role regularly to filter for "groups" of units that can't be caught easily via side, type etc. It's supposed to work however.

While you're here, I know that you like Trolls : what's your opinion about the White Troll unit?
And compliments for you new Code & WML Contributor title!

I follow the thread only very losely and just spotted that question, sorry...

[Elvish_Hunter]

Version 2.10 is on the server.
This version adds several (but not yet all) of the changes that we discussed recently, the new A0 and B3 by Eros, and some other features.
Known issues:
- When using hack start, Elyssa as Gold Mage still uses the Red portrait even if I modified her creator to give her the Silver portrait.
- The Mudcrawler still needs right dialogue in almost all scenarios, and this means also modifying the MESSAGE_FIRST_UNIT and MESSAGE_SECOND_UNIT macros that we have. Unless we invent some spell by Elyssa that allows the Mudcrawler to speak normally, or something else.
- Due to some changes (Troll Shaman line, for example) this release is INCOMPATIBLE with former releases. PLEASE DO NOT UPDATE if you're playing the campaign, unless you want to restart or use hack start. And please report any bug that you find.

3) “Eh? That temple also counts as human territory? Crap!”

Do you think that it will be a good fix to add a bridge that connects the island with the temple? Or stealing the whip shouldn't lead to a defeat?
Also, this remembers me one thing: once there was the possibility to fight against the Humans, that Eros asked to remove. Eros, do you think that the scenario works well this way, so I can finish removing the old Status 3 code (where Humans were enemies)?

There isn't, I use role regularly to filter for "groups" of units that can't be caught easily via side, type etc. It's supposed to work however.

Thanks Anonymissimus, you're helpful as usual. The problem is somewhere else and I'll investigate.

I follow the thread only very losely and just spotted that question, sorry...

No problem.

[shadowblack]

- Due to some changes (Troll Shaman line, for example) this release is INCOMPATIBLE with former releases. PLEASE DO NOT UPDATE if you're playing the campaign, unless you want to restart or use hack start. And please report any bug that you find.

3) “Eh? That temple also counts as human territory? Crap!”

Do you think that it will be a good fix to add a bridge that connects the island with the temple? Or stealing the whip shouldn't lead to a defeat?

Thanks for the warning (good thing I looked here before checking for updates). Since I have almost finished Defense (B5, I think) I'll use the old version (2.9?) until I finish the campaign. Should I continue to post my feedback, like I did until now, or have there been any changes in the remaining scenarios that would make such feedback not as helpful due to me playing a different version?


As for the temple: I forgot to mention this before, but a few persistent labels that mark the borders of the city (such as "western bridge", "temple of x", etc.) would be very helpful. A bridge is also a good idea.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Should I continue to post my feedback, like I did until now, or have there been any changes in the remaining scenarios that would make such feedback not as helpful due to me playing a different version?

Apart from rebalancing of Young Gryphons and Cactoses, there wasn't much change in latest scenarios. So please continue to post feedbacks! If you want, I'll add you to credits for feedback and playtesting

[shadowblack]

Should I continue to post my feedback, like I did until now, or have there been any changes in the remaining scenarios that would make such feedback not as helpful due to me playing a different version?

Apart from rebalancing of Young Gryphons and Cactoses, there wasn't much change in latest scenarios. So please continue to post feedbacks! If you want, I'll add you to credits for feedback and playtesting

That would be nice, thanks!

Scenario 11:

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Started on 1.8.4, finished on 1.8.5, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.9.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 if you want to kill enemy leaders, 1 otherwise

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the last orc leader before time runs out (see comments below for the reason)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As with the previous scenario – do not allow the orcs to recruit level 3s on the lowest difficulty

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, though my initial mistakes almost made me restart


Thoughts:
I chose to control my allies since I don’t like relying on the AI. In this case, however, this worked against me, as I got overconfident and made some stupid mistakes. This led to the deaths of a number of allied units. The end result of it all was that I killed the second orc on turn 16/16, and it was the Green’s Knights that delivered the finisher (one of them paid with his life in order to wound the leader enough for the other knight to deliver the killing blow).

Apart from my own initial mistakes this was an easy and fun kill-em-all scenario despite having to fight on multiple fronts.

The Fire Whip turning out to be a ranged attack was a nice surprise – now Grog too has a magical ranged attack.

Scenario 12:

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.9.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2, because of the Woses’ ambush and Shamans

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Accuracy – my mages would not stop missing, to the point where a few times I replayed a turn because of the misses

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5 to 6 – the woses got quite annoying after the first few turns. Fun in this scenario depends a lot on how lucky or unlucky you are – if the woses keep hitting you it stops being fun really fast.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Start the scenario as night is approaching (1 or at most 2 turns until Long Dark), giving the trolls a bit of an advantage over the woses. Also see comments below

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, but a few key units barely survived the woses’ attacks.


Thoughts:
From the very start I could see a level 2 Wose, so I guessed I would be fighting them. But I didn’t expect them to be so many, or to have Shamans (their slowing attack was really annoying since I had mostly ranged units).

I figured that splitting my forces in two, then sending one group NE and the other NW, was the best way, but after seeing how many woses there were I can’t help but wonder if it would have been better to just go NW with my entire army, and from there head east – there should be enough time, and this way seems safer (fewer woses to fight, plus I would avoid ambushes). Maybe change it so that the wose leader drops something (an item caught in its branches, such as a ring that increases max HP) – a small reward for going NE.


Since this is supposed to be the lowest difficulty I think you should either reduce the number of woses, or replace some of the level 2s (preferably the Shamans) with level 1s (unless that was already done in the latest version).

P.S.: At one point my Desert Star said "Get me out of here!" (or something like that), but I couldn't understand why, as she was in no danger at the time. When is that line supposed to trigger?

No Fly Zone (Scenario 13):
I sincerely hope this scenario was changed in the new version, because the way it is in 2.9.1 it is the worst scenario I have seen – and I’m not talking about this campaign alone.

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.9.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
0 – difficult? Not at all. Completely luck-dependent and almost unplayable? Yes!!!

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, but where were those drakes coming from and why were they chasing me?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Reaching my ally before he got killed. I barely did it – he had 29/63 HP by the time I reached him. Another turn and there would be no one to reach.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
0. The way it is now – not fun at all.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I’ll wait to see what the scenario is like in 2.10 before making any suggestions

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, but see comments below.


Thoughts:
This scenario was a race against time. From behind came A LOT of level 2 drakes (and without any warning, too – good thing I accidentally noticed them), while ahead of me my ally got all but one of his units on land, and thus quickly slaughtered. Seeing that I can’t hope to win against an endless stream of drakes and that my ally is trying to get himself killed I sent Jaash along the northern side of the map, using the rest of my griffons to clear the way and to slow down any pursuers. I BARELY did – like I mentioned above my ally had 29/63 HP by the time I reached him.

There were just too many enemies and too little I could actually do, so I had to rely on the Goddess of Luck to keep my ally alive long enough. Not fun at all.

I hope this scenario has been significantly modified in 2.10.

Scenario 14:

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.9.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 – surprisingly challenging

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
There was any?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The cuttlefish (or whatever they are called). The Sea Serpents were also a bit of a challenge, but not as much.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It won’t make it more fun, but mention in the explanation that ONLY the elven ship has such a ranged attack and that the rest are just normal ships.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.


Thoughts:
This scenario proved surprisingly challenging. At first almost all of my opponents were Tentacles, so it seemed easy, but as I approached the shore I started encountering more powerful (and also much faster) enemies and it took some careful planning combined with some luck to win without any losses (though over half my units were wounded to some extent).

Scenario 15 (final):

Spoiler:

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5, Grunt (not that it matters), campaign version 2.9.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 – as befitting a final scenario it was pretty hard, but not too much

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, but I was a bit disappointed by the end-of-scenario dialog. “We win” and that’s it?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting rid of the enemy units without too many losses.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Since this is the easiest difficulty do not allow the dragon to recruit level 3s.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I restarted once due to bad initial planning that left too many of my units vulnerable to attack.


Thoughts:
Again I chose to control my allies. Since everything about this scenario screamed “final battle” I didn’t care as much about losses, and ended up losing a couple of the elves that had been with me from the start.

I started with just 4 Griffons near the elves (that’s how many had survived No Fly Zone), and one of them was slowed. Still, the other three could reach and attack the NE Drake Enforcer. Most of them got badly wounded, but so was the drake. In addition, when his turn arrived he could recruit only 3 units because the rest of his recruiting space was taken by my griffons. As an added bonus he did not attack any of my wounded griffons. So on turn two I used my griffons (including the now-unslowed and fully hale one) to finish off this particular drake leaving me with one less opponent. True, I still had to deal with the three units he recruited, but considering how many more he would recruit if I had given him the chance…

The remaining leaders proved a challenge due to having a lot of level 2s, but once I realized that being too aggressive is a bad idea and waiting for them to come to me works – they were easy. Before I knew it I had only the dragon left.

The dragon was surprisingly easy to kill – first I attacked him with 2 Young Griffons and a Griffon, then he killed one of the young, then he got finished off by the two remaining griffons + Jaash. Who knew griffons could be so deadly…

I never got around to taking that staff in the sea. Looking at the code it appears to be a decent weapon.


Overall this was a very enjoyable campaign, and quite challenging at times, too. Plus it was nice playing as trolls for a change.



After finishing the campaign I upgraded to version 2.10. Then I looked at the code for this scenario and noticed something odd:
victory_when_enemies_defeated=no

A few lines later:
victory_when_enemies_defeated=yes

Is the first line needed for anything?

[Eros]

OK. I have added updated version of A2-1 (I got the roles to work. A simple WML error thats all). Apart from adding something to the lava section(which I'll do when I've time) Its pretty near ready to roll.

Have created a new A2-2 as well. I'ts very simple and works well (IMHO). I'm sorry Daravel but i had to change the dialog to fit the (slightly) modified story line.

Some thoughts on the white troll:
Description: "This albino troll was cast out of his tribe. Wandering lonely in the tunnels around his home he has learnt many <i>unusual</i> skills".
He could have the normal fist attack (Fist: 3-3)
but he could throw mud as a magical ranged attack (Mud Storm: 3-5 swarm).
he could advance with following amalas
improve melee attack * 3: damage += 1
improve ranged attack * 2: damage += 1
improve ranged attack * 5: number += 1
?poison vapour attack * 1: earns a magical poisonous attack (Poisonous Vapour: 6-1)
?feeding * 1: earns the ability to feed like a ghoul. You could give option for having either this or poison vapour.
?deflects * 1: +20% defense to all melee attacks.

1) “What? The orcs can recruit level 3s?”
2) “My allies have so few recruiting spaces? Well, at least they can recruit some level 2s…”
3) “Eh? That temple also counts as human territory? Crap!”
4) “Those drakes sure are lucky!”

Never ever heard anyone say (4) before! (1) I agree with. (2) maybe add the space for easy only. (3) hmmm, It has to be human territory for game reasons but maybe a note when you get there would help. something like.

Spoiler:

when you move to the temple a box pops up and says. "I'm not sure that the humans will like me spoiling their temple. If I leave now they might not notice I was here. Do you want to leave?" if the user replys no then proceed as normal. if yes then move the unit of of the temple.

- The Mudcrawler still needs right dialogue in almost all scenarios, and this means also modifying the MESSAGE_FIRST_UNIT and MESSAGE_SECOND_UNIT macros that we have. Unless we invent some spell by Elyssa that allows the Mudcrawler to speak normally, or something else.

use a macro like in utbs for the dust devil that has another unit do all the speaking for the mudcrawler.

Also, this remembers me one thing: once there was the possibility to fight against the Humans, that Eros asked to remove. Eros, do you think that the scenario works well this way, so I can finish removing the old Status 3 code (where Humans were enemies)?

Its so long ago that i can hardly remember. If its not used in game remove it.

@Everyone
the problem with the roles wasn't labeling multiple units but the following

Code: Select all

#code to set up the role goes here

[message]
    role=rolename
    message=_"hhhhhhhhh"
[/message]

I had

Code: Select all

#code to set up the role goes here

[message]
    speaker=rolename
    message=_"hhhhhhhhh"
[/message]

I am stupid!

Start the scenario as night is approaching (1 or at most 2 turns until Long Dark), giving the trolls a bit of an advantage over the woses. Also see comments below

Once again I agree. (only on easy though)

After finishing the campaign I upgraded to version 2.10. Then I looked at the code for this scenario and noticed something odd:
victory_when_enemies_defeated=no

A few lines later:
victory_when_enemies_defeated=yes

Is the first line needed for anything?

no.

@ShadowBlack/Everyone
About C1,2. I didn't write either of these (I like the zurg version of C1 (thumbs up E_H)). Elvish wrote C1 about a week after telling me he knew no WML so thumbs up to him for learning so fast. maybe with all the due permissions I could have a go at redoing the C1-Jaash branch and refine the dialog in C2.

@Elvish
I dont cease to be impressed by your english as you're not an english speaker.

[Elvish_Hunter]

No Fly Zone (Scenario 13):
I sincerely hope this scenario was changed in the new version, because the way it is in 2.9.1 it is the worst scenario I have seen – and I’m not talking about this campaign alone.

You know, that was one of the first scenarios that I made, and I never received any feedback about it, so I had no way to improve it.

Good, but where were those drakes coming from and why were they chasing me?

If my memory doesn't fool me again, those Drakes were Marz's idea Of course I'll remove them!

I’ll wait to see what the scenario is like in 2.10 before making any suggestions

As I said, I haven't any way to improve it. Until now, with your help.

7 – surprisingly challenging

Obviously, I made the C2 several months later after C1. And you noticed the improvement The idea behind it was that Jaash or Zurg reached Kaleh, then the Elves and the Mermen decided to go and help Grog as quickly as possible, even by placing on the field their most powerful weapon - the multihex ballista. And of course, Akhenku was expecting this, so he deployed a lot of marine monsters.

ShadowBlack wrote:
1) “What? The orcs can recruit level 3s?”
2) “My allies have so few recruiting spaces? Well, at least they can recruit some level 2s…”
3) “Eh? That temple also counts as human territory? Crap!”
4) “Those drakes sure are lucky!”

Never ever heard anyone say (4) before! (1) I agree with. (2) maybe add the space for easy only. (3) hmmm, It has to be human territory for game reasons but maybe a note when you get there would help. something like.

Usually people complain about Drakes because they're easy to hit...

use a macro like in utbs for the dust devil that has another unit do all the speaking for the mudcrawler.

I'll take a look at that macro, thanks.

Its so long ago that i can hardly remember. If its not used in game remove it.

I'll do it.

@ShadowBlack/Everyone
About C1,2. I didn't write either of these (I like the zurg version of C1 (thumbs up E_H)). Elvish wrote C1 about a week after telling me he knew no WML so thumbs up to him for learning so fast. maybe with all the due permissions I could have a go at redoing the C1-Jaash branch and refine the dialog in C2.

So, apparently both C1-Zurg and C2 were good scenarios. I appreciate it About the C1 Jaash, I would give you permission to modify it... if it wasn't that, because I wrote it, I really want to improve it! So, now I have some questions:
1) The map: is it fine as is, or it needs changing? If yes, any ideas about how to improve it? (If you're asking why there are so many villages in a desert, relax: I removed all of them and replaced with oasi, that heal +8 anyway, a thing that I didn't knew at the time, and added a yellow note about this at the start. Pango markup is so powerful...)
2) Cactose: too much or too few?
3) Drakes: nevermind, they'll be removed
4) Mermen: at the time, I wasn't able to control the AI. Now, at least I can use the 1.6 syntax (1.8 syntax is still giving me serious headaches ). Should I move them elsewhere? Should I make them less suicidal? More money?
5) Gryphons: too much or too few? With the new balancing, they may be too few.
6) Any other suggestion to improve it?
Ah, and about C2 dialogues: yes, you can fix them, and maybe suggest a more sane title. It kept the work-in-progress title, only because I never had any better idea.

@Elvish
I dont cease to be impressed by your english as you're not an english speaker.

It's because in everything that I do I try to give my best. And continuing to follow this forum I can only improve my English!

[shadowblack]

Never ever heard anyone say (4) before!

Usually people complain about Drakes because they're easy to hit...

Well, there’s a first time for everything… I guess they finally got lucky when I was playing. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that (in both B4 and B5) they recruited quite a lot of those level 2s that have 50% def on most terrain, even over water (compared to the 20% of most drakes)

About C1-Jaash: From looking at the code ti seems it is about the same in 2.10 as it was in 2.9.1, so how about the following changes:
1) On EASY only increase the starting gold of my ally
2) On ALL difficulties force my ally’s units to avoid the land and stay in the water, where they have 60% def. He starts with just 100 gold and spends it all recruiting those six units on first turn. Without any villages he can’t recruit any additional units, so his initial recruits need to survive for as long as possible
3) Optional changes – increase my ally’s income and/or add some sea villages near his keep

As for the drakes: A justification for there presence could be that the dragon sent them to stop Jaash from reaching the elves (so that there will be no one to help Grog in the final battle). So no need to completely remove them, but reduce their numbers (except on HARD), and also:
- on EASY they start arriving on turn 4
- on NORMAL they start arriving on turn 3
- on HARD they start arriving on turn 2
And make sure there's a proper warning when they first arrive. Maybe they say something?

Then when the drakes failed the dragon sent those sea monsters to intercept the elves before they could land.

Griffons (in addition to Jaash):
- on EASY – 4 level 2 Griffons
- on NORMAL – 3 level 2 Griffons
- on HARD – 2 level 2 Griffons

As for the number of Young Griffons – can’t comment yet. Anyone have a “start of scenario” save?

[Elvish_Hunter]

Thanks for your suggestions, shadowblack. I'll do these changes and playtest it.

P.S.: At one point my Desert Star said "Get me out of here!" (or something like that), but I couldn't understand why, as she was in no danger at the time. When is that line supposed to trigger?

This is a combined sighted+moveto+[filter_vision]+NEAREST_UNIT event. It is supposed to be fired when you see the Sea Serpent, or it moves in your sighting area. It wasn't much evident because, until now, the Serpent didn't had any message, so I just added one. Thanks for pointing this!

Description: "This albino troll was cast out of his tribe. Wandering lonely in the tunnels around his home he has learnt many <i>unusual</i> skills".

Maybe it's just a bit short as description? What about adding something (like I did in the first version of the description) about how much rare are albino Trolls? In fact, this is the only campaign that uses it...

He could have the normal fist attack (Fist: 3-3)
but he could throw mud as a magical ranged attack (Mud Storm: 3-5 swarm).

?feeding * 1: earns the ability to feed like a ghoul. You could give option for having either this or poison vapour.

IMHO, swarm special isn't a good idea, as well as feeding. The first one can make this unit quickly useless: don't forget that both the Dust Devil and the Cuttle Fish (that have swarm) have high movement, so can easily flee and heal. Trolls have regeneration, sure, but they can't flee with the same speed. And about feeding, I can't imagine a Troll eating all his enemies like a Ghast. Just my opinions. About the other stats, they seem interesting (but from where he got the poisonous vapours?). Still, an arcane attack may be useful, considering that Trolls already have a lot of impact and don't have arcane at all. Maybe not as it was in the first version (that was faerie fire), but still... Of course, this is open for suggestions and discussion.

[Eros]

OK, Long post alert.
I have posted updates to C1(both branches) and C2. You dont have to include them if you dont want too.

Notes:

C1-Jaash

• kept name as "No Fly Zone" but it is not good english. Could we call it something different! Most of the scenario names are quotations (thats what comes from being a classics buff!). Maybe break tradition with something like "An Urgent Erand". Or maybe for conveniece you could call the scenario Jaash. (my prefered option and has plenty of precedent.)
• As far as coding goes I have had to change very little. What was there was excellent.
• Add a bit when Jaash leaves in B6 where the drake says something like "Where is that bird going. Go and stop him." and a few gliders go after him???
• removed the oasii heal. instead you have to conserve your units health.
• removed the code for spawning drakes. The code was nice but as I get older I become more and more a proponent of the KISS principle.
• Esanoo cant die. THis is so that you dont have to have him living in the objectives.
• Cactoses dont speak because a talking cactus is even more silly than a talking tree.
• I have changed the dialog. I think the current one is OK, though the end speech could be changed.

C1-Zurg

• All I have done is change the dialog and tidy up the code. (and a few small aesthetic changes)
• I have removed the oasii and replaced them with villages. This is to fit with the kiss principle. I don't know where the code for the oasii is. Could someone find it and remove it.
• I have made the mermen arrive on turn 2 rather than in the start event.
• I have removed refernces to the prophecy as it only complicates things.
• I have never actually looked at the code for this scenario before. I like it. Well done E_H
• Added last breath event for Tinry.
• Maybe the scenario could be called Zurg as he is the main protagonist in it.

C2

• Mostly dialog and tidy up again. (Once again only aesthetics)
• The objectives now check for whether Jaash is your hero.
• TODO: allow Esanoo to die. and modify B7 accordingly. (the current version makes no sense but I'm too tired to change it)
• TODO: have only one ship or have them all with multi-hex attacks
• I wouldnt complain if we dropped this scenario. (use the multihex in A0 instead maybe). I think two scenarios away from the main point is a lot.
• add goto icons for where you are moving to.
• Carry recall list for mermen to B7
• IMHO, this scenario should be dropped. The fun bit is in the multihex attack and we could have that in A0. In all real;ity who is going to stop the quenoth elves?

Campaign

• IMPORTANT:

  * A7: fixed a bug that gived the Bats less gold if the player has Gryphons.

  This wasn't a bug. It made the scenario playable if you had no gryphons.
• Maybe the time has come to remove hack start as it was only there for debug in the beginning.
• The drake variations are still in the units folder. (and the associated images)
• how about an extra upgrade for mudcrawler: "hides" making him invisible on dirt terrains.
• remove

  Code: Select all

  	{VARIABLE stored_hero.hitpoints $stored_hero.max_hitpoints}
  	{VARIABLE stored_hero.moves $stored_hero.max_moves}
  

  and

  Code: Select all

  	{MAKE_HERO $stored_hero.id}
  

  from B7. they are no longer necessary
• The story text for B4 is outdated with the new B3
• Huge volte face coming: maybe we could remove the gold mage for kiss reasons. haveing a level 4 teleport is to amazing. Sorry. Up to you as always.
• Why is there a spider lich in units. We dont use it do we?
  [*}we should, IMHO, drop the old lava monster due to it only having one frame. The utbs one makes up for the lack of it.
• I dont think we use the ant any more.
• could we put the units from utbs in their own folder. this would make the units folder mush easier to navigate.
• could we drop the naga assasin. the graphics is well sub standard and the unit is basicly not used.
• we dont use troll-flag-x.png anymore
• we use none of the items apart from the crystal glyph I think.
• we dont need any of the drake unit graphics

• message= _ "Farewell Nym, I go to the sea god. You must go on without me."

  this makes no sense as Nym isnt around. Also as this is a defeat condition so they cant go on without him.
• add a macro to TSoG-deaths.cfg that the first time in the campaign you recruit a ogre it tells you that it upgrades to level 3
• ditto for young gryphon telling them that it upgrades to a Gryphon
  Phew!!!

About the white troll. Whatever you want. I was thinking that he could hide in dirt terrain and caves. Would that be as good as fleeing?

The drakes in C1 was planned coz: you are running across a field full of cactoses being chased by drakes. You use the cactoses to stop the (faster) drakes from catching up with you.
@E_H sorry about not giving you feedback.

[shadowblack]

Just a couple of notes:
1) The naga boss in B7 can (and sometimes does) recruit Naga Assassins
2)

# removed the oasii heal. instead you have to conserve your units health.

That doesn't seem like a very good idea. With no way to heal too much will depend on luck (especially since cactoses have a ranged slowing attack and griffons are helpless against it)

[Eros]

Just a couple of notes:
1) The naga boss in B7 can (and sometimes does) recruit Naga Assassins
2)

# removed the oasii heal. instead you have to conserve your units health.

That doesn't seem like a very good idea. With no way to heal too much will depend on luck (especially since cactoses have a ranged slowing attack and griffons are helpless against it)

There are villages now. (I forgot to change the notes).

Both branches of C1 dont stand alone as I didnt setup the esanoo code for standalone. however you should be able to get an idea.

[Elvish_Hunter]

As far as coding goes I have had to change very little. What was there was excellent.

Thanks!

removed the oasii heal. instead you have to conserve your units health.

That will make the scenario MUCH more complicated! This applies also to C1-Zurg. I'm not sure about this.

I have never actually looked at the code for this scenario before. I like it. Well done E_H

Thanks again

TODO: have only one ship or have them all with multi-hex attacks

That was an "hack" made by Mich. Maybe I can do it by using the NAMED_GENERIC_UNIT macro and giving to the other ships a 2-hex attack range (Kaleh kept for his ship the most powerful ballista).

I wouldnt complain if we dropped this scenario. (use the multihex in A0 instead maybe). I think two scenarios away from the main point is a lot.

Not much, because in the first version of the campaign you planned to have a C part made with 2 or 3 scenarios.

IMHO, this scenario should be dropped. The fun bit is in the multihex attack and we could have that in A0. In all real;ity who is going to stop the quenoth elves?

I can add back the multihex bit in A0 (it's just a macro). Who is going to stop them? Hmmm... what about A LOT of marine monsters? The meaning of the C part is to tell how the hero reached Kaleh and how the Elves reached Grog. This may need also a story-only scenario between C1 and C2 to explain the council.

changelog wrote:
* A7: fixed a bug that gived the Bats less gold if the player has Gryphons.

This wasn't a bug. It made the scenario playable if you had no gryphons.

Yes. The fact was that I accidentally inverted the two things, so the Bats had less gold if there were Gryphons, and more gold if Gryphons were missing!

The drake variations are still in the units folder. (and the associated images)

That was to backport the amazing new sprites! As I said before, these will be removed for 1.9/1.10, but for now they'll remain here.

how about an extra upgrade for mudcrawler: "hides" making him invisible on dirt terrains.

Nice.

Huge volte face coming: maybe we could remove the gold mage for kiss reasons. haveing a level 4 teleport is to amazing. Sorry. Up to you as always.

Bear in mind that this L4 is not so powerful. Compare it to the Great Mage...

Why is there a spider lich in units. We dont use it do we?
[*}we should, IMHO, drop the old lava monster due to it only having one frame. The utbs one makes up for the lack of it.

And there is one, fully animated, in Era of Myths, for the Level 0 (Fire Wisp, if I remember correctly).

#


this makes no sense as Nym isnt around. Also as this is a defeat condition so they cant go on without him.
# add a macro to TSoG-deaths.cfg that the first time in the campaign you recruit a ogre it tells you that it upgrades to level 3
# ditto for young gryphon telling them that it upgrades to a Gryphon

OK. My to-do list is becoming kilometric...

About the white troll. Whatever you want. I was thinking that he could hide in dirt terrain and caves. Would that be as good as fleeing?

Maybe yes. About the new sprites for it, I'm recolouring a mainline Shaman. Are you interested?

@E_H sorry about not giving you feedback.

Don't worry, I remember that you had terrific computer problems at the time...

There are villages now. (I forgot to change the notes).

It used to have villages, but simply was nonsensed to have much villages in a desert... Maybe just put only A FEW villages and keep the remaining oasis.

[bayesian]

Fantastic campaign. One of the most engaging.

A note regarding "The North Gate". There is a but in the triggers for exiting via the signpost. There are two moveto events, one for each of Grog and Ellysia. Both check to see if the other is within radius 1, both are 'first time only'. This works fine if Grog reaches the post and then Ellysia reaches the post and also if Ellysia reaches the post and then Grog reaches the post. It does *not* work if one of them reaches the post then returns to combat, the other reaches the post and then the first hero again returns to the post. Because they are both 'first time only' there are only two chances for them both to be there.

The other problem with that scenario, one of balance, is that the dwarves are just a source of free experience *forever*. There is no turn limit and abundant gold. The runecrafter cannot be killed and just keeps producing L2s forever. If you have already defeated the orcs the responsible leader will naturally train all the troops on his recall list to L3 and train at least three full keeps of L2 Griffon assassains before departing. (A time limit from when the dwarves alive to when you must leave seems appropriate. Either that or more dwarves arrive and start spamming berzerkers.)