The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

[Elvish_Hunter]

I just assumed that it is always an archer. Can you change it so it always is?

I can.

Much, much better.

Thanks.

All he needs now is some destinguishing feature to make it obvious hes young when you see him on his own. perhaps some downy feathers?

A thing that, for now at least, I can't do. Anyway, colour and smaller dimension make it impossible to confuse it with a L2 Gryphon.

could the plus one moves become better movement over terrain. 6mp for a lump of mud is a lot. 50% and 40% are to high? maybe 40% and 30%.

I'm coding and testing the unit, when I finished I'll post it.

Of course not. Its your campaign now!

I asked because maybe you preferred her changing terrains also on melee. I never coded a special attack before, so it may require some time.

Maybe we could get someone to do some sprites for the white whelp as the concept is cool. Faerie Fire for it is a bit odd though. Really it needs a completely new set of ranged attacks. Maybe not even magical?

It already HAS its own sprites, made by Dibs from the Wesnoth Italian Forum, as stated in credits; I agree that Faerie Fire may be odd, but Lightbeam and Shadow Wave were just worse in this case. I'll look if I can find a better solution, otherwise it will remain as is for now.

Interesting. How does that fit in with the orcs chasing you now?

Simple: the western Saurians are sent in by the Orcs, while the eastern Saurians are allied with the Dragon.

Below are the attatched files for A0. To make it work here is a list of things you need to do to the rest of the campaign.

Thanks, Eros. I'll download and start testing it (you listed a lot of things to do...)

What do you think of these sections
1) from the begginning till you get to the bridge
2) from the bridge to your home
3) the fight around your home including the bats
4) the journey to the undead
5) the final battle

My opinion is that the A2-a may include the first three parts, maybe placing the Bats more near to Grog's home to make the map smaller. (Yes, it may be a contrast with B4, but nothing forbids that Bats may have returned in a different place.) A2-b may include the battle against Dwarves, while the journey to the Undead can be removed since it is a narrow tunnel that allows only 1-to-1 fighting.

Marz says the same things. If i replace stuff I need to replace it with stuff. I need good ideas of what I can have in an under ground scenario. stuff that is unusual really.

No need to replace stuff, at least for now. One very unusual thing that we can add is the new mainline Ghast, for example. Or some Goblins (there are a lot of units in Era of Magic and other Eras). Or some Dwarvish war machines (there are some tanks and other kind of units somewhere). There are also some other kind of Spiders around. (There are some extension that we can look for ideas: BEEM, Ageless Era, RPG Creation kit, RPG Resources...) Anyone has any other suggestion?

[Eros]

Have posted the ship.

Anyway, colour and smaller dimension make it impossible to confuse it with a L2 Gryphon.

When they are together. Seperately I could easily confuse them.

I asked because maybe you preferred her changing terrains also on melee. I never coded a special attack before, so it may require some time.

Doing it as a special would be hard, I think. just add a filter to E-kills.cfg. maybe this?

Code: Select all

[filter_attack]
range=ranged
[/filter_attack]

It already HAS its own sprites, made by Dibs from the Wesnoth Italian Forum, as stated in credits; I agree that Faerie Fire may be odd, but Lightbeam and Shadow Wave were just worse in this case. I'll look if I can find a better solution, otherwise it will remain as is for now.

as in looking different to the whelp. Maybe its an albino troll. Cast out from its tribe it learnt lots of unusual powers (Maybe throwing mud using magic as trolls ought to be good at that sort of thing (he could do the tunnel collapse bit in A5)).

Simple: the western Saurians are sent in by the Orcs, while the eastern Saurians are allied with the Dragon.

and then orcs just randomly appear in B4?

My opinion is that the A2-a may include the first three parts, maybe placing the Bats more near to Grog's home to make the map smaller. (Yes, it may be a contrast with B4, but nothing forbids that Bats may have returned in a different place.) A2-b may include the battle against Dwarves, while the journey to the Undead can be removed since it is a narrow tunnel that allows only 1-to-1 fighting.

I am inclined to agree. OK, I dont have time to do that at the moment but it shouldnt be to hard (wouldnt take you more than a couple of hours). Moving the bats in A2 AND A4 isnt hard though I think they are good where they are. tHe final objectives for A2-1 could be "clear the home of enemies" and then have a bit of dialog and then go into A2-2.

I am going to launch into a tirade about units.

Mainline units are fun, have good graphics, and are well balanced. In writing a campaign you have to strike a balence between realism (fighting the same type of units all the time as in LoW and the second half of RoW) and unrealism (IFtU where you have millions and millions of different types of units). In a campaign a unit, IMHO, should be added only when it visibly improves the campaign, has decent graphics, and is balanced. Here is my verdict on the special units we have already (that I can remember).

• Troll Boulderlobber, came from BEEM (?, with modifications). good graphics makes that troll branch so much more desirable. 100%
• Troll magic line, I dont know about the new ones but I thought the old method of integrating with a little used/use troll unit (shaman) by haveing a upgrade was good, the graphics were also good. (I am not sure I like the new ones. maybe a redraw of th ewizard would be better?) old: 95%, new: 65%
• Cactose, suggested by Elvish (?), excellent concept, excellent graphics (same cant be said for its upgrade) simple and easy to adjust game play to. 100%
• Young Gryphon, graphics are not 100% (no offence Elvish) but the concept is good and the objections with using riders are profound. 75%, 100% if better graphics
• Great Ogre, poor graphics (unless I am out of date), doesnt fit with mainline (which has an overpowered level 2), and worsens gameplay (having a unit tree that doesnt go to level 3 makes it more interesting) 15%
• Extra dwarves. I added these but i would probably remove them as they decrease the game play. Except possibly the rune lord which makes a good ruler. 30% runelord: 80%
• extra nagas, hunter is good (though maybe he ought to have to ranged attacks, one weak with poison and one strong without?) but the rest ought to go.hunter: 100% (needs graphics) rest: 5%
• extra drakes, Im not sure what these are but the drake lines are profuse enough already, there isnt much need to add others which just add similar units to those that already exist. 20% ?
• dragon, good until we get a mainline one 100%
• desert elves, obviously necessary! 100%

I have missed a lot but adding a unit to a campiagn should be a case of: "Oh, is this a mainline unit I havent met before?". Units shouldnt be added to the campaign for there own sake. Even UtBS doesnt have that many new units (as opposed to mods like the elves).

[Elvish_Hunter]

When they are together. Seperately I could easily confuse them.

Will be together in 2.10.0.

Doing it as a special would be hard, I think. just add a filter to E-kills.cfg. maybe this?
Code: [ Select all ]
[filter_attack]
range=ranged
[/filter_attack]

That doesn't work on die events.

as in looking different to the whelp. Maybe its an albino troll. Cast out from its tribe it learnt lots of unusual powers (Maybe throwing mud using magic as trolls ought to be good at that sort of thing (he could do the tunnel collapse bit in A5)).

Change the attack to a magical mud glob? Interesting. But if the player lost it, or haven't found it, who will collapse the tunnel?

and then orcs just randomly appear in B4?

As you know, the campaign is still a work in progress. The Orcs in B4 can say, for example, "Our Saurians allies have failed to stop the Trolls. We must do everything by yourself!" It's mainly a dialogue issue, in my opinion.

Troll magic line, I dont know about the new ones but I thought the old method of integrating with a little used/use troll unit (shaman) by haveing a upgrade was good, the graphics were also good. (I am not sure I like the new ones. maybe a redraw of th ewizard would be better?) old: 95%, new: 65%

The new graphics allowed me also to add L1 Shamans and, even more important, add them the cold attack. Without it, the L2 Shamans were simply unuseful agains Drakes.

Young Gryphon, graphics are not 100% (no offence Elvish)

No offence taken, not being a real artist I do what I can.

extra nagas, hunter is good (though maybe he ought to have to ranged attacks, one weak with poison and one strong without?) but the rest ought to go.hunter: 100% (needs graphics) rest: 5%

Zerovirus redraw the baseframe some time ago.

extra drakes, Im not sure what these are but the drake lines are profuse enough already, there isnt much need to add others which just add similar units to those that already exist. 20% ?

That will be removed in 1.9, it was just to backport the new sprites.

Great Ogre, poor graphics (unless I am out of date), doesnt fit with mainline (which has an overpowered level 2), and worsens gameplay (having a unit tree that doesnt go to level 3 makes it more interesting) 15%

Monroid has made a new baseframe. And, about overpowering, when I replayed the campaign before adding it, I almost avoided using Ogres because they have similar resistances to Trolls, don't regenerate, their attack is worse that the Troll club / hammer, at least in this campaign, and cost more. And they died quicker than my L1 Trolls. Not a good bargain. And 10-3 melee blade isn't owerpowered (think to the Swordsman, for example...)

Units shouldnt be added to the campaign for there own sake.

I don't plan to add any other unit, except the Mudcrawler with AMLA.

[Eros]

Will be together in 2.10.0.

no, on the map.

Change the attack to a magical mud glob? Interesting. But if the player lost it, or haven't found it, who will collapse the tunnel?

Zurg

As you know, the campaign is still a work in progress. The Orcs in B4 can say, for example, "Our Saurians allies have failed to stop the Trolls. We must do everything by yourself!" It's mainly a dialogue issue, in my opinion.

Interesting/Not convinced/will have to play it.

The new graphics allowed me also to add L1 Shamans and, even more important, add them the cold attack. Without it, the L2 Shamans were simply unuseful agains Drakes.

Well if you havent managed to level your shamans by B4 you dont deserve to have them.
NB: I would prefer modifying the mainline to have a cold attack to haveing a new line.

Monroid has made a new baseframe. And, about overpowering, when I replayed the campaign before adding it, I almost avoided using Ogres because they have similar resistances to Trolls, don't regenerate, their attack is worse that the Troll club / hammer, at least in this campaign, and cost more. And they died quicker than my L1 Trolls. Not a good bargain. And 10-3 melee blade isn't owerpowered (think to the Swordsman, for example...)

Yes (reluctantly), but it does decrease the interest though.

I don't plan to add any other unit, except the Mudcrawler with AMLA.

Theres no problem with units but 99.9% of the time they ought to mesh seamlessly with other units in the game. They ought to feel like a logical extension of whats there already.

NB: can I have some feedback on A-0.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Well if you havent managed to level your shamans by B4 you dont deserve to have them.

Remeber that there is a Shaman that was supplied by the end of B2. Leveling it only in B3 and B4 isn't easy.

NB: I would prefer modifying the mainline to have a cold attack to haveing a new line.

Ok then. Still, I'll keep the Warbanner sprite, at least, because it is better than the old Shaman sprites, that we used before.

NB: can I have some feedback on A-0.

I just copied it in my campaign folder and fixing some things before playing it. But I looked the map and the code and I can say that I like it. Good job, Eros!

[Eros]

Ok then. Still, I'll keep the Warbanner sprite, at least, because it is better than the old Shaman sprites, that we used before.

Ok, its the best of the 3 units for graphics. lets see if someone will make a new one for us.

I just copied it in my campaign folder and fixing some things before playing it. But I looked the map and the code and I can say that I like it. Good job, Eros!

Thanks. Its not balanced but I like it. There are a few things I dont like (like the tentacles) but.... There are no cactoses on the basis that you would put them in A1. (though they might be better as a surprise novelty in C*)

[Elvish_Hunter]

One thing that I forgot: of course, I need to revert to the old A1 map, right? And the cactoses in A1 where should be placed - or should I remove them?

[Eros]

One thing that I forgot: of course, I need to revert to the old A1 map, right? And the cactoses in A1 where should be placed - or should I remove them?

revert to old A1 map. I, IMHO, would have the cactoses as a surprise for c* but if not put them by the first pond.

NB: Am shutting down my comupter as a 1000 page maths textbook calls me. I must......obey........

[Eros]

I am not sure if you want a new map when you split A2 but here is an idea of what you could have.

Spoiler:

Grog starts in NW (Player 1).
A group of dwarves are on the road directly in front of the bridge. (1/2 heavys and ~3 spam).
The two seniors say:

>> Dwarf 1: "There isn't much point standing around here all day."
>> Dwarf 2: "Yeah. Not since that blasted mage made her getaway. Lets pop of for a pint. The young uns can watch the door."
>> * 1 & 2 move toward the bridge *
>> Dwarf 2: "Call us if you need us."
>> * move down the tunnel and into the norther chamber *
>> Elyssa: "Come on, before the others get back." (because shes been here before/recently she takes command)

You kill the 3 spam dwarves.

>> Elyssa: "Lets see if we can sneak past before the big guys get back." (because shes been here before/recently she takes command)

you sneak past and informs you you want to go south. If you succeed you see (because of shroud) the big guys come back and say.

>> Dwarf 1: "Now I wonder where they got to."
>> Dwarf 2: "Sure is strange."

if you dont succeed they see you and the dwarf in the castle starts recruiting, immediately. If you decide to go north and attack the castle the 2 heavvys are standing just inside the northern chamber and attack you. If the dwarves do start recruiting they follow you down to the bridge where Elyssa does here stuff. The tunnel at the back of the dwarvish castle leads to a white troll prisoner and, possibly, an alternative route through the scenario.

The rest of the map is just approximate and will be clarified by notes.

NOTES

1) when you move to the collapsed end of the road have Elyssa say something about the fact that its the ruins of a greater empire etc. When it fell rather than dig through the rubble they dug around. she could say something similar when they explore the other side
2) where the road bends you could have this.
>> Narrator: "Far of down this tunnel you can hear the clash of weapons."
>> Grog: "Lets not go that way."
3) the lava on the paths represents stuff goes here. could be spiders, could be more exciting.
4) if you take the southern route its longer (with no easter-egg) but you dont have to kill the dwarves, and you nab the bat en-route.
5) 33,11 could be a easter-egg (nasty naga)
6) you would need lots of guidance notes.
7) I have designed this map for A4 as well. like with the old one all that needs to happen is for it to be scaled up a bit.
when you reenter the main road
>> Elyssa: "Its earily quiet around here I wonder where the dwarves are?"
9) It needs major refinement but I think there is a possibility here.

Obviously that is just a draft, and would need careful refinement. The advantages of the new map are
1)simpler (only two routes)
2)shorter (less endless walking)
3)more space to fight in (the main road is 5 wide rather than 3 and this is carried across to everything else)
4)more interesting?
The disadvantages are:
1) you lose the bit where you are running between 2 armies which is unique(?) to all of wesnoth. I really liked that bit.
I could graft the righthand side of the new map onto the old one. Possibly!

[Eros]

I see that its bout a year since Marz and I started TSoG. Since that time Marz has entered the Latin translation project and left development of TSoG. I have also stopped being lead developer now acting more as a advisor for Elvish_Hunter who is doing an excellent job of maintaining the campaign. As the numbers on Tsog approach 3.0 maybe we should decide what would constitute an appropriate 3.0 release. Here is a draft of what could be a road map for TSoG.

Roadmap:

Roadmap:

• Mainline Quality: Though its obviously for the mgeneral BfW user-mass to decide what is of mainline-quality right at the beginning of writing we decided that we wanted to write a campaign, not that became mainline but that was the campaign (with IFtU) that users played first when they went on the Addon-server. To try and achieve this we formulated the following policy.

  (1) All graphics should be of mainline quality. (ie. all units should have at least the minimum attack frames) (2) All speech should try and conform with existing campaigns (hence the reason for the emphasis on race specific speech). (3) That the campaign should be professional as far as possible. (keeping the WML simple and annotated). (4) That we should attempt to keep the campaign as near to the top of the campaign lists on the addon-server.

  We should try and keep this to this policy and remedy any lapses.
• Balancing For ease of development we left out difficulty levels when we wrote the campaign. That should be remedied before we can justify a 3.0 release. Also for development reasons we eliminated gold transfer between scenarios that should be removed.
• Dwarvish Branch When originally written we intended to have a choice between playing Grog or playing Rogrimir. Though this is possible it's not necessary. IFtU gives a alternative, albeit unusual, history of the dwarvish branch. This campaign could try to compliment that rather than replace it.
• The campaign should be finished. Not that we cant do any more to it but that all outstanding tasks should be completed. There should be no tempory material in the campaign.

I have probably missed something there. If Elvish_Hunter could comment on this that would be great. If he approves we could edit it and it could be placed in the campaign info folder. I am happy to help with anything needed for a 3.0 release. We should try and make a TODO list and put it in this thread. How about this?

TODO: :

(1) Standardise the code. Make sure we have a coding policy for our WML and make sure all the code is correctly annotated. I could do that as I wrote most of it originally! so here goes: Eros Progress: incomplete
(2) Finish the dialog. Ensure that the dialog in the campaign makes sense (which it didnt when I wrote it!) Daravel Progress: incomplete
(3) Ensure the graphics is high-quality. heres what comes to mind.

• Nagas: these are being done by Zerovirus I think.
• Great Ogre: these are being done by ?.
• Elder Cactose: this should be refined or removed(IMHO removed and cactose made more powerful we dont need two types of cactose really. KISS is a wonderful principle!)
• All dwarves other than the runesmith are being removed?
• Level 3 Troll Shaman: the graphics should be redone.
• White Troll: we should have some alternative graphics for.
• Young Gryphon: the graphics we have at the moment are OK but if someone wanted to redo them....
• Grog: the current capped version of Grog is good and should be keptrather than switching to the new troll hero graphics. This also helps with UtBS continuity.
• We need more story images however I think we are breaching copyright by keeping cave-entrance-1.jpg in the campaign.
• There are a lot of graphics used by un-used units in the images folder. These could be removed. I'll do that as I'm redoing the code. Eros Progress: incomplete

(4) Add gold carry over. Only Elvish can do that.
(5) Balance. Thats obviously a collabrative effort. ShadowBlack's comments will be very useful here.
(6) Info Folder. Needs redoing. I can do that. Eros Progress: incomplete

Elvish willing he should have a post to include the roadmap and this TODO list that he can modify as things get finished. If I can take a copy of TSoG sometime over a week-end I will do my code sortout.

Phew!.....

[Elvish_Hunter]

Ok Eros, currently I don't really have the time to answer to all your points (sooner or later, I should also go back some pages to see if I missed something). Some really quick answers:

I am not sure if you want a new map when you split A2 but here is an idea of what you could have.

A new map is always welcome I'll check it.

I have also stopped being lead developer now acting more as a advisor for Elvish_Hunter who is doing an excellent job of maintaining the campaign.

And you're doing an excellent job as advisor as well While you're here, I have two questions:
1) About the Great Ogre issue, I thinked how to solve it; what do you think if only I-Gruk (the Ogre leader) can advance this way, and all the other Ogres will be capped at L2 (maybe with AMLA?)?
2) About the unit discussion that we had yesterday, some time ago Daravel noticed that the Spearmen level to Royal Guard, but in this campaign they defend a city, not a kingdom, so I made, after his suggestion, a special Town Guard unit, that is a renamed Royal Guard. Should I keep or remove it?

(1) All graphics should be of mainline quality. (ie. all units should have at least the minimum attack frames) (2) All speech should try and conform with existing campaigns (hence the reason for the emphasis on race specific speech). (3) That the campaign should be professional as far as possible. (keeping the WML simple and annotated). (4) That we should attempt to keep the campaign as near to the top of the campaign lists on the addon-server.

Most of the units have, but remember that even in mainline there are some with only the baseframe, and that, until some time ago, the Giant Rat was a sprite made with four small mice. About being on top of the server, when I finished integrating your new A0 I'll switch to the 1.9 series - that will mean that the 1.8 series will only receive bugfixes. Due to the known bug, I'll have to wait for 1.9.1 to upload it, run wmllint and test only after uploading.

Dwarvish Branch When originally written we intended to have a choice between playing Grog or playing Rogrimir. Though this is possible it's not necessary. IFtU gives a alternative, albeit unusual, history of the dwarvish branch. This campaign could try to compliment that rather than replace it.

So, there is no hurry to add the Dwarvish branch. Anyway, we should think how to fix those small contrasts with IftU (that means, the Sceptre of Fire, that in IftU/AtS is destroyed and the Ruby embedded in Elynia's staff (I thinked to replace it with the Sceptre of Life some time ago), and Elyssa, that in IftU becomes a Shaxthal (it's spelled right?) while here she's so powerful that nothing can stand against her).

(1) Standardise the code. Make sure we have a coding policy for our WML and make sure all the code is correctly annotated. I could do that as I wrote most of it originally! so here goes: Eros Progress: incomplete

I can do it as well, hopefully. Of course, I'm not fast because I test a lot before uploading. What do you mean with "policy for WML"? Does it allow use of Lua code, should I find the time to learn it (not sure)?

Elder Cactose: this should be refined or removed(IMHO removed and cactose made more powerful we dont need two types of cactose really. KISS is a wonderful principle!)

Ok then, the L2 Cactose can be removed because, after testing, it doesn't appear too useful in this campaign. About the L1, raising both melee and ranged damage by 1? Increase resistances to fire and cold to 50%?

We need more story images however I think we are breaching copyright by keeping cave-entrance-1.jpg in the campaign.

I already removed the cave-entrace-2 for the same reason, as you asked. I didn't knew about this. What was the source of these two images?

There are a lot of graphics used by un-used units in the images folder. These could be removed. I'll do that as I'm redoing the code. Eros Progress: incomplete

I'm not sure, but maybe there is a wmlscope parameter to point out to unused files. I'll check the wiki.

(4) Add gold carry over. Only Elvish can do that.

That will be the new 40% system, giving Grog arbitrary gold values, and raise or decrease depending on players' inputs. For me "hard difficult" usually means "difficult level that I cannot win... )

Elvish willing he should have a post to include the roadmap and this TODO list that he can modify as things get finished. If I can take a copy of TSoG sometime over a week-end I will do my code sortout.

Please wait at least a week until I finished adding the new scenario (real life permitting)!

[Daravel]

Just a quick comment on the saurian-orc issue - I forget the scenario name - The one after "the North Gate"

The reason I suggested removing the Orcs was because Grog and party left the battlefield first, and were running from the Orcs. So, how did the Orcs get in front of them and into a conflict with the Saurians? Elyssa answers this for us; she says that the Orcs must have used the river road (or something). So why on earth didn't WE use that road? If Elyssa knew of it, and knew it was quicker?

That's why I suggested that the Orcs should be behind us. The reason that they would randomly appear in the next scenario is because they caught up.

Alternatively; when you escape in "The North Gate" Elyssa can say that they will be forced to take the mountain path, while the Orcs will be able to go round, on the quicker river path.

[Eros]

1) About the Great Ogre issue, I thinked how to solve it; what do you think if only I-Gruk (the Ogre leader) can advance this way, and all the other Ogres will be capped at L2 (maybe with AMLA?)?

Interesting! would be hard to explain to the user, and AMLAs, IMHO, have to be on special units. Either keep it pr you could make the Great Ogre like the Great Troll not on the unit tree.

2) About the unit discussion that we had yesterday, some time ago Daravel noticed that the Spearmen level to Royal Guard, but in this campaign they defend a city, not a kingdom, so I made, after his suggestion, a special Town Guard unit, that is a renamed Royal Guard. Should I keep or remove it?

Yes, I agree entirely. put it into villagers.cfg

Most of the units have, but remember that even in mainline there are some with only the baseframe, and that, until some time ago, the Giant Rat was a sprite made with four small mice. About being on top of the server, when I finished integrating your new A0 I'll switch to the 1.9 series - that will mean that the 1.8 series will only receive bugfixes. Due to the known bug, I'll have to wait for 1.9.1 to upload it, run wmllint and test only after uploading.

There's no rush. As long as its 1.10 ready. We would need to rewrite the maps for the new terrain.

So, there is no hurry to add the Dwarvish branch. Anyway, we should think how to fix those small contrasts with IftU (that means, the Sceptre of Fire, that in IftU/AtS is destroyed and the Ruby embedded in Elynia's staff (I thinked to replace it with the Sceptre of Life some time ago), and Elyssa, that in IftU becomes a Shaxthal (it's spelled right?) while here she's so powerful that nothing can stand against her).

I think we should drop the dwarvish branch. The campaigns arent possible to combine. IFtU assumes that you chose the dwarvish branch so they could be alternative histories. I find IFtU great to play(at least part 1, part 2 gets a little repetitive) but the history is extremely bizarre. I dont think we want to try and integrate with it but to offer an alternative history that fits better with standard wesnoth.

What do you mean with "policy for WML"? Does it allow use of Lua code, should I find the time to learn it (not sure)?

Well when I wrote it I didnt have a consistant policy of annotating the code. variables for example are handled using macros in some places and straight WML in others. All it needs is a tidy up when we are ready to have a 3.0.

Ok then, the L2 Cactose can be removed because, after testing, it doesn't appear too useful in this campaign. About the L1, raising both melee and ranged damage by 1? Increase resistances to fire and cold to 50%?

I'd keep the resistances like a normal wose but maybe increase the attacks a little. if resistance were to be increased it would have to be against blade. (gryphons and fencers)

I already removed the cave-entrace-2 for the same reason, as you asked. I didn't knew about this. What was the source of these two images?

-2 was straight of google images -1 was from Marz so I dont know.

That will be the new 40% system, giving Grog arbitrary gold values, and raise or decrease depending on players' inputs. For me "hard difficult" usually means "difficult level that I cannot win...

Same here. I'd aim for the harder end of the spectrum. maybe like SotBE and NR.

Please wait at least a week until I finished adding the new scenario (real life permitting)!

[/quote][/quote] If you want to do it thats good by me. If you want to do it though it should be when we have done the rest.

@Daravel
Your explanation is what I had thought(obviously my explaining powers need work). The orcs were blocking your route to the river road in B2 so you take the pass instead.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Either keep it pr you could make the Great Ogre like the Great Troll not on the unit tree.

The Great Troll has also its L2 unit, that is the Troll Hero.

There's no rush. As long as its 1.10 ready. We would need to rewrite the maps for the new terrain.

Then it's better to wait! In mainline the developers are still adding new terrains, so it's better to wait some time until they finished. And anyway, 1.10 beta will be released probably in 2011, considering that we are at the start of the 1.9 cycle.

I think we should drop the dwarvish branch. The campaigns arent possible to combine. IFtU assumes that you chose the dwarvish branch so they could be alternative histories. I find IFtU great to play(at least part 1, part 2 gets a little repetitive) but the history is extremely bizarre. I dont think we want to try and integrate with it but to offer an alternative history that fits better with standard wesnoth.

Ok. Elyssa will remain powerful as is, but the only problem is now the Sceptre of Fire, that is destroyed after The Dark Hordes and before UtBS - at least, in the development plans.

Well when I wrote it I didnt have a consistant policy of annotating the code. variables for example are handled using macros in some places and straight WML in others. All it needs is a tidy up when we are ready to have a 3.0.

There is nothing wrong in using both macros and plain WML. The main problems, from my point of view, are two:
- first, having a wmllint and wmlscope output as much clean as possible (not always easy, I know)
- second, avoid nested events. They're usually a trap for the engine, in my experience, and...

What you may not understand about macros is that they use a simple text pre-processing language. Macros are expanded to their full WML equivalent when the file is first read and before the scenario is even executed. Thus, a macro has no concept of a WML variable.

Also, I tend to avoid spawning events from within other events. It may seem like the simplest way at first, but in my experience it often leads to needless confusion. You can achieve the results with unfiltered moveto and a [switch] statement.

I'd keep the resistances like a normal wose but maybe increase the attacks a little. if resistance were to be increased it would have to be against blade. (gryphons and fencers)

You know, real cactus can resist to extreme hot and cold, while they aren't so resistant against pierce and impact.

-2 was straight of google images -1 was from Marz so I dont know.

At this point, I should ask also what was the source of desert.jpg (or desert.png), since I haven't found it in mainline campaigns...

If you want to do it thats good by me. If you want to do it though it should be when we have done the rest.

I already added it, created or copied all the macros needed, done most of the points that you listed and testing it. I even did something more: added a horn sound when the Nagas sound the alarm, added two Ruffians to compensate the mainline weakening of the Footpad unit, made the Mudcrawler say this:

Code: Select all

message= _ "Mrrrmm! Gurgle! Splorch! Glargle! Shholpoupl! Shhlop! Shhlorp! Shhlorp-Gup!"

(the "words" are "stolen" from A Rough Life, Brotherhood of Light and Ooze Mini Campaign), fixed a lot of bugs, and I'm about to add the multihex attack to the ship. I also looked at your new A2-1 map, and it seems interesting. I especially noticed those two lava pools and seen some (quite weak, just Level 0) Lava Elementals (or Fire Elementals) coming out from here... Adding this map will require, however, to modify also the A4 map to fix inconsistencies.

@Daravel
Your explanation is what I had thought(obviously my explaining powers need work). The orcs were blocking your route to the river road in B2 so you take the pass instead.

No problem: I always keep backups. But I noticed that having a Saurian-only fight makes the scenario harder, in my opinion, and maybe more interesting (they have skirmish, magic and heal, things that Orcs don't have).

[Eros]

OK, then. I give in. lets have a great ogre!

Ok. Elyssa will remain powerful as is, but the only problem is now the Sceptre of Fire, that is destroyed after The Dark Hordes and before UtBS - at least, in the development plans.

Not played the dark hordes. we dont have to agree with anything thats not mainline but we could at least try. the sceptre of fire was purely meant to be a fun end. it could be scrapped no prob

- first, having a wmllint and wmlscope output as much clean as possible (not always easy, I know)
- second, avoid nested events. They're usually a trap for the engine, in my experience, and...

cant comment on first but the second is good advice. nested events are a pain. they only normally cut out one variable check anyway(see A0).

I'd keep the resistances like a normal wose but maybe increase the attacks a little. if resistance were to be increased it would have to be against blade. (gryphons and fencers)

OK, they ought to be weak to blade whatever. a nice fleshy cactus will be weak to blade and that means we can upgrade fencers and gryphons easily.

At this point, I should ask also what was the source of desert.jpg (or desert.png), since I haven't found it in mainline campaigns...

not sure. If i remember Ill ask marz.

I already added it, created or copied all the macros needed, done most of the points that you listed and testing it. I even did something more: added a horn sound when the Nagas sound the alarm, added two Ruffians to compensate the mainline weakening of the Footpad unit, made the Mudcrawler say this:

dont complicate the scenario by the multihex attack. leave it as a novelty for C2.

About A2-1. probably a revision of the old map would do. just a few tweaks to the entrance and further in. if we do replace it, the pools of lava are only sitting there until I decide what ought to be there.

No problem: I always keep backups. But I noticed that having a Saurian-only fight makes the scenario harder, in my opinion, and maybe more interesting (they have skirmish, magic and heal, things that Orcs don't have).

Youd have to rework the story line for that to happen. have a new map with no river and you just meet two bands of saurians having a squabble. the orcs would then catch up with you in B4. I like that idea as I never liked my B3. maybe I'll give it a go when I get home. If you dont mind!