Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
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Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
While playing recently, I've noticed that while the major races like humans and orcs have lengthy descriptions, some of the other races don't, and this information is often contained elsewhere, such as in unit descriptions and on the wiki. I've taken the liberty of trying to consolidate some of this information with the hopes that it might be included in the game as well. For some of the races (like bats), it's more for the sake of having something there, rather than going into serious detail.
If we need to get really in-depth about developing any of these, like discussions about canon and any new information that needs to be invented, I'll make a new thread for it, so as to not have multiple discussions trampling each other.
This thread chronicles my attempts at writing race descriptions for those who don't have them in the in-game help. Some have entries on the wiki, and others do not. Most of these descriptions are based on the wiki, on unit descriptions, and on what some developers have stated in other threads here on the forum.
Below are my current versions as of September 13th around 5pm (GMT -5) whenever the last edit was.
First, these are the ones I consider done unless someone with authority says otherwise.
Next, the following are works in progress, and I'd appreciate some feedback as I develop them. These two are basically done, but could likely use some tweaking. Helpful feedback is appreciated.
Still to do:
If we need to get really in-depth about developing any of these, like discussions about canon and any new information that needs to be invented, I'll make a new thread for it, so as to not have multiple discussions trampling each other.
Stuff from OP that isn't as relevant anymore:
Below are my current versions as of September 13th around 5pm (GMT -5) whenever the last edit was.
First, these are the ones I consider done unless someone with authority says otherwise.
Bats
Goblins
Mechanical
Monsters
Ogres
Merfolk
Nagas
- Gryphons
- Saurians
- Wolves
- Woses (currently being worked on by others)
Last edited by johndh on September 16th, 2010, 5:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Great stuff! I'm glad someone is finally doing this.
A few nitpicks:
-You might want to avoid introducing the name Irdya into the manual; it isn't used elsewhere.
-Clarify that Saurians stand at the height of a ten-year-old *human* child; in this setting you can't take it for granted.
-Mainline doesn't place Ogres in the Northlands, assuming that the Northlands refers to the home of the orcs. Eastern Invasion has them in the northern portions of the kingdom of Wesnoth, but mainline campaigns have put all sorts of things up there, and there's no reason to assume that's their main home either. As of yet, nothing much exists in the eastern portions of the kingdom, much less the lands farther east of Wesnoth, and it might be good to put them there (as well as the Drakes, who need a homeland more than anyone).
I'm not sure I agree that they're summarily shunned by civilized races either. The one thing that strikes me about Ogres in mainline is how commonly they appear among the armies of other races--including humans, as in Heir to the Throne and Eastern Invasion (and i'd swear there are other examples, but none spring to mind). They seem to commonly sell out as mercenaries, and while that's not exactly *social*, it's a far cry from solitary lurking in the wilderness. Unlike orcs and trolls, there's no evidence I can think of that other races hate and fear them.
The merfolk could use more work like you said, but I especially like everything you've done with the Saurians. It's extremely detailed, and it all sounds pretty much perfect for them.
A few nitpicks:
-You might want to avoid introducing the name Irdya into the manual; it isn't used elsewhere.
-Clarify that Saurians stand at the height of a ten-year-old *human* child; in this setting you can't take it for granted.
-Mainline doesn't place Ogres in the Northlands, assuming that the Northlands refers to the home of the orcs. Eastern Invasion has them in the northern portions of the kingdom of Wesnoth, but mainline campaigns have put all sorts of things up there, and there's no reason to assume that's their main home either. As of yet, nothing much exists in the eastern portions of the kingdom, much less the lands farther east of Wesnoth, and it might be good to put them there (as well as the Drakes, who need a homeland more than anyone).
I'm not sure I agree that they're summarily shunned by civilized races either. The one thing that strikes me about Ogres in mainline is how commonly they appear among the armies of other races--including humans, as in Heir to the Throne and Eastern Invasion (and i'd swear there are other examples, but none spring to mind). They seem to commonly sell out as mercenaries, and while that's not exactly *social*, it's a far cry from solitary lurking in the wilderness. Unlike orcs and trolls, there's no evidence I can think of that other races hate and fear them.
The merfolk could use more work like you said, but I especially like everything you've done with the Saurians. It's extremely detailed, and it all sounds pretty much perfect for them.
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Well I need something for races that aren't confined to Wesnoth or the Great Continent, especially when some campaigns take place after the fall, and saying "the world" just doesn't have the right feel to it.A-Red wrote:-You might want to avoid introducing the name Irdya into the manual; it isn't used elsewhere.

Done.-Clarify that Saurians stand at the height of a ten-year-old *human* child; in this setting you can't take it for granted.
Fixed.-Mainline doesn't place Ogres in the Northlands, assuming that the Northlands refers to the home of the orcs.
Sure, they find work in the military, but they don't seem to me like they typically live among the civilized races, especially since you get mobbed by them any time you venture out into the wild. The unit descriptions even say they usually live in the wilderness and they're basically enslaved in other people's armies. I've rewritten to be a bit better, though.I'm not sure I agree that they're summarily shunned by civilized races either.
I'd consider calling them man-eaters, as the meat cleavers seem to suggest it, but I'll hold off until/unless I get confirmation.
I can't take any credit whatsoever for the saurians, as I ripped it straight from the wiki, and I have no idea how much of it is canon, especially when it comes to stuff like the gender roles, so that's something I'd like to hear from a dev about. I seem to recall the wiki used to say that saurians reproduced by budding like a friggin' hydra, so I know not to take it as an infallible source.The merfolk could use more work like you said, but I especially like everything you've done with the Saurians. It's extremely detailed, and it all sounds pretty much perfect for them.

It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
- Midnight_Carnival
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Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
I too am glad that someone is doing this.
Also, I must commend you on your style, you manage not to sound like the back of a cheap-fantasy novel.
I would naturally disagree on a number of points, but I will put that down to difference of opinion. I won't trouble you with things that I feel should change which may even be part of the Wesnoth canon. My aproval counts for nothing, developers will either like what you have written and incoroprate it (they may ask you to change a number of things) or they won't.
So here's my useless aproval
Also, I must commend you on your style, you manage not to sound like the back of a cheap-fantasy novel.
I would naturally disagree on a number of points, but I will put that down to difference of opinion. I won't trouble you with things that I feel should change which may even be part of the Wesnoth canon. My aproval counts for nothing, developers will either like what you have written and incoroprate it (they may ask you to change a number of things) or they won't.
So here's my useless aproval

...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Seems pretty good for the most part, but please, no mentions of "Irdya".
- Darker_Dreams
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Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Wesnoth wouldn't be the first planet to be referred to as "the World." Heck, if you think about it we live on planet Dirt, err, Soil, err...
It probably is something that should be addressed sooner rather than later if there's going to be a consistent background created. That said, the two refs to irdya I saw 1 (the bats) could easily be replaced with "Wesnoth" (there might be other bats elsewhere...) and the other could be deleted with no loss to readability or meaning.
It probably is something that should be addressed sooner rather than later if there's going to be a consistent background created. That said, the two refs to irdya I saw 1 (the bats) could easily be replaced with "Wesnoth" (there might be other bats elsewhere...) and the other could be deleted with no loss to readability or meaning.
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Okay, I've taken into account some of the feedback so far and removed all references to Irdya. I've also rewritten the ogre description.
I'm currently working on nagas, and I'll need to rewrite the naga fighter unit description, since it's really just a description of the race, and I'm incorporating a lot of it into the race description. Anyway, more updates to come later this afternoon/evening after I've run some errands.
Ogres
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
- Darker_Dreams
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Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
There is no zealot like a convert... pretty much just doing copyediting on your comma usage/comma splices.
Ogres
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Frankly, I'm not sure that was an improvement, as some of your corrections seem to counter what I know of English grammar.
Anyway, I'll consider the ogre description done, pending confirmation from a developer, since we don't really have a lot of information about them.
I have a preliminary attempt at a naga description, borrowing heavily from the naga fighter unit (which I'll need to rewrite). I'm somewhat fond of nagas and I feel like they get the short end of the stick, so I plan on expanding and improving on this. Hopefully I'll manage to put together something to rival the other major races.

I have a preliminary attempt at a naga description, borrowing heavily from the naga fighter unit (which I'll need to rewrite). I'm somewhat fond of nagas and I feel like they get the short end of the stick, so I plan on expanding and improving on this. Hopefully I'll manage to put together something to rival the other major races.

It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
- Darker_Dreams
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Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Like I said 99% of what I did was simply remove commas or shuffle other punctuation into where you were using commas to hold things together. You have heavily overused and misused that particular piece of punctuation. However, if you're happy I don't care. My opening comment, "no zealot like a convert," was my way of saying that not long ago I would have written it very similarly. That doesn't make either one right or good writing. I don't know what your linguistic background is; whether English is your primary language or you have a graduate degree in the subject.
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
The whole comma thing is pretty debatable. Every time someone criticizes my use of them I go back to whatever book I'm reading, and notice that professional authors are using them the way I am, which is why I'm using them that way. I've been immersed in it. The Elements of Style is probably on your side, but either way is well accepted these days. It may just be a matter of how clean you want your prose to look and how you want it to flow in the reader's head--one way may work for a novel, the other for an expository piece of text.Darker_Dreams wrote:Like I said 99% of what I did was simply remove commas or shuffle other punctuation into where you were using commas to hold things together. You have heavily overused and misused that particular piece of punctuation. However, if you're happy I don't care. My opening comment, "no zealot like a convert," was my way of saying that not long ago I would have written it very similarly. That doesn't make either one right or good writing. I don't know what your linguistic background is; whether English is your primary language or you have a graduate degree in the subject.
- Darker_Dreams
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Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Preliminary naga race description
Note: the thing about temples and ancient society blah blah, is taken from Temple Of The Nagas. I know it's not mainline and not canon, but there's such a lack of mainline information on nagas that I included it anyway.
Finalized (unless someone has a problem with them) versions of some others:
The Merfolk description is still seriously lacking and I do plan on improving it, but if anybody wants to take a crack at it, be my guest!
Edit: Too soon for a bump, so I'll just append this here. Preliminary unit description for the naga fighter (since I chopped the old one up and sprinkled it on the race).
PS. What's the adjective form of "naga"? I seem to remember seeing "nagini fighter" a few times, and I took that to be the equivalent of, say, "elvish fighter". Is a nagini just a female naga?
Now I'm thinking my use of "nagini society" was erroneous, but I'm not sure.
Nagas
Finalized (unless someone has a problem with them) versions of some others:
Bats
Mechanical
Monsters
Ogres
*sigh* Time to show my work, I guess.Darker_Dreams wrote:You have heavily overused and misused that particular piece of punctuation. However, if you're happy I don't care. My opening comment, "no zealot like a convert," was my way of saying that not long ago I would have written it very similarly. That doesn't make either one right or good writing. I don't know what your linguistic background is; whether English is your primary language or you have a graduate degree in the subject.

Here be pedantry; feel free to ignore.:
Merfolk
Naga Fighter

Last edited by 8680 on May 16th, 2013, 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed broken hyperlink [to tvtropes.org; it used obsolete ptitle syntax].
Reason: Fixed broken hyperlink [to tvtropes.org; it used obsolete ptitle syntax].
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
- artisticdude
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Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
I've always understood that 'nagini' referred to female nagas. I think the race as a whole is just simply the 'naga'.johndh wrote:PS. What's the adjective form of "naga"? I seem to remember seeing "nagini fighter" a few times, and I took that to be the equivalent of, say, "elvish fighter". Is a nagini just a female naga? Now I'm thinking my use of "nagini society" was erroneous, but I'm not sure.
"I'm never wrong. One time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken."
Re: Missing in-game race descriptions in the BfW help.
Naga. Nagini (and the misspelled version, Nagani) is just an artifact from the times when someone thought that female reptilians with mammal traits were a good idea.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.