Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9
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its_crunchtime
- Posts: 7
- Joined: July 24th, 2010, 6:58 pm
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.3 - 16 scenarios complete
The problem that norbert was talking about(not really but he had a picture and a small sentence) is the same one that I am having, only I can't
figure out how to lure the ghost away from the key... is this fixed or already fixed? I downloaded your latest update halfway through the scenario,does this
fix it?
Thanks for any help I get given
figure out how to lure the ghost away from the key... is this fixed or already fixed? I downloaded your latest update halfway through the scenario,does this
fix it?
Thanks for any help I get given
What would you attempt to do if you could not fail?
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.3 - 16 scenarios complete
vcap: Oh. That is interesting. I usually use the flags for another very good reason: the scenario will start with your leader in the center of the map instead of scrolling to him. I don't want my scenarios to start with a scroll.
I'll check my maps to see which ones still need flags. Thanks.
crunchtime: Sorry, I'm still working out the best way to fix this without breaking five or six other things. I think norbert moved his ghostie by using :debug commands. One way to do it would be:
making sure your cursor is pointed at the ghost in question. Then you can move him.
If a spearman picks up the multi spear or if Clammie explores the cavern to the northeast, you'll give the ghosts an incentive to move. ... I think. Anyway, I'll post an update when this bug is fixed.
I'll check my maps to see which ones still need flags. Thanks.
crunchtime: Sorry, I'm still working out the best way to fix this without breaking five or six other things. I think norbert moved his ghostie by using :debug commands. One way to do it would be:
Code: Select all
:debug
:unit side=1If a spearman picks up the multi spear or if Clammie explores the cavern to the northeast, you'll give the ghosts an incentive to move. ... I think. Anyway, I'll post an update when this bug is fixed.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.3 - 16 scenarios complete
I've done the first 8 episodes so far. You have a knack for storytelling, the story is great at the characters are funny and lovely.
You have a great talent for funny parts and the poems are inspired, too.
The mood is well toned.
Though, Wesnoth is a startegy game, and I think some things can be refined. In fact, most of your episodes lie on a win-or-lose trial, and once it is done, the interest of the game slows down.
Here is a review of the different episodes:
1. Shining
The game is well balanced and challenging in its first part. The kinghts are not easy to defeat and you have to play with the terrain to attract them in the swamps. This is the challenge of this scenario, but once the initial resistance is broken, it is not as challenging and interest slows down. Shining lacks the possibility to be a true menace until he is encircled; I don't know if it's what you want. Once the 5 knight are killed, most of the game is made of moves toward the enemy's keep, and since the movement in the swamps is very slow, it is quite boring. I think Shining should recruit pedestrian troops once the knights are killed (He could say sth like: "OMG, my knights have been killed by these pesky goblins! you shall pay for this! Guards, raze this vermin!" or the like), and summon archers and pikemen, and maybe one lvl-2 Swordsman as Chief guard. Their slower movement rate would keep the interest during the progression towards Shining's keep. Maybe the map could be refined as well, but it's fine for now.
Ah, another point: one sees you are interested in swamps due to mangrove trees, but I think it could be used better I will explain later how imo.
2. Healer and Slayer
I will not speak of the story part, which is always interesting and well done. Concerning the bat capture, it's ok, though not as funny once you get the trick. But, the part where you have to search the healing potion is not very interesting, because if you start in the wrong way, you lose... and you simply load the previous turn. There is nothing to understand and nothing to guess, it's simply by chance. I believe that people who play wesnoth do it because it keeps their mind busy.
Maybe, if a wild would steal the potion, and you had to corner it with the tamed bat without hurting it, it would be more interesting (the bat IA would be: simply evade): if you attack the bat, the bottle gets broken, so you have to corner it so that it has no move left, for example. Then it gets tamed and you can take the bottle, and take all bats in the box.
It's only a suggestion.
The part with the bats in the box used to kill Rashiki is very interesting and clever.
3. Exodus
Much to say about this one. The option of using swamp wild creatures against the lizards is interesting, because you have to guess the IA's next actions. Though, due to this, the goblins get sticked a few hexes south to the Goblin Keep. This is even more necessary if you consider the terrain: the only way to win seems to have the wild animals attack the lizards while staying on firm ground or attract them on firm ground. This sort of terrain is on one only place of the map; so, there is no alternate way to escape (for example on the west of the river) because firm ground is the only acceptable terrain.
So, you get sticked on the center of the map until the last lizard gets killed. Then, it becomes far less challenging: you have to move the leader (very slowly) towards the south with a bat escort. The lizard general poses no threat anymore, since he has no villages any more.
Maybe the map should be shorter or broader, or offer alternate ways. Or, someting could renew the lizard's menace. You had a good idea in triggering new wild animals with the enmy general's death, but maybe they should continue to appear randomly during the whole scenario, offering new allies / enemies and keeping the challenge and offering alternate ways to upgrade / sacrifice your goblins.
4. At Death's Door
One of your best part, since it's a storytelling part. I don't know what it gives if your leader is close to next level and gains a level while poisoned. It would spoil the mood, for sure.
5. It takes a Swampling
Infiltration part should be harder. It seems that guards don't attack if you are in their line of sight, I think they should (except the garrison chief), in order to keep things interesting. Did not even try to recruit (I went to the sewers immediately)
The second part (with rats) has the same flaw of other scenarios: once you've broken the initial resistance, the rest is a countrywalk. I think you should scale enemies so that they appear little by little. Maybe the guards could pursue the characters from a distance, so they should hurry. The way could be arranged so that the rats could be a nuisance either for clammies's team or for the pursuers. They could spawn at regular intervals, for example.
6. Rogue's Reward
Far too easy: nothing prevents that poor rogue chieftain to be devoured by bats while the gobs keep the mobs occupied. Maybe it's the way you wanted it? The island in the center is a good trap though. I preferred let the enemy camp on it and make a goblin wall north to it, along the water. Would the IA choose to camp on the island, it would be very difficult to kick them off, though, but even in that case, it's not necessary, as long as the bats can reach the general.
7. Selling Bats to Merfolk
The same very simple strategy applies: hold the island with a handful of goblins (the mushroom forests), while the bats clear off lone units and devour the leader.
8. Clammie the Healer
A pity one cannot use these potions longer. In fact, I had no use at all of them to slay Shining, since Kennison is so slow and Eeeep the wolfrider simply can't move in caves. I barely acknowledged I was regenerating and healing... Maybe there should be a challenging scenario here so you can enjoy your newfound powers a while before you lose them.
9. Thunderstruck
Dialogues are excellent and funny as usual. The first challenging scenario. I tried a wolfrider wall on the eastern river and a firewand one on the north one. The saurians use to work it around due to their abilities. Teamwork is difficult.
Note: I would have preferred Misris to stay a Nocturne Goblin until otherwise decided and Eeep be promoted to Wolfrider immediately.
10. Meet Mister Blydd.
Very good scenario. Maybe the map could be a little smaller.
11. Ruins of Xsaffraz
Good map. Not too difficult but challenging enough (playing on medium difficulty)
12. DIRE CAVE
Intersting (the story definitely keeps interest), but full of bugs:
- If I take the Speaking Key, game shuts down on the beginning of next turn... Maybe because I already met the troll? If it is of some importance the player does not go on other parts of the map before the altar, there should be grids or gaps, because players always disobey...
- Vizzerdrix heals in towns: -8 poison +10 from resting = +2, normal?
- Ghoul should do something in the 2 places where she goes before disappearing (after chit-chat)? Nothing happens (I suppose she would summon undead?) One thinks something should happen since you get an army of allied Spectres without any enemy...?
- if you return to the altar (if you killed the Green dungeonkeeper before going to the altar), the scene with Ghoul plays again.
Maybe it's because I play under Ubuntu and not Wondows?
Suggest that after saying: "equip goblins with torches", give the possibility for Eeep to transform existing wolf rider in play into a torchbearer for X Gold with a right-click-asterisk, provided unit is on next hex, or to equip basic goblins with torches for 3-2, fire (the same way one equipped Thundergobos). Could be through a campfire.
About the animals:
I think that Greta should be summoned for free at the beginning of each scenario. Otherwise, you do'nt bother summoning a bad lvl1 for 20 Gold.
The swamp wolves should have the "swamp sawy" trait, since wild animals are generally adapted to their environment. Maybe they could have less hp or less cover in plains or mountains, for example.
May I say that rats usually swim very well? I think their cover and move should be uniform, since they swim well, climb well and so on, because they are so small (maybe less in mountains). Their cover should be an average 40% or higher. Even like this, they would not be overpowered.
Kennison could be of the duellist line, since the Archer Sprite does not fit him well. Maybe you wanted him to be an archer, and you would have to change the poem he gives in Rogues Reward when he fires an arrow. But it would fit more to the line, I believe, and be more interesting in terms of teamwork.
Misris could have this sprite instead, and throw bolas and use a knife. Bolas would be 3-1 or 1-3, bashing and slow effect. Knife would be 3-3, slashing and sneak attack (suggestion).
You have a great talent for funny parts and the poems are inspired, too.
The mood is well toned.
Though, Wesnoth is a startegy game, and I think some things can be refined. In fact, most of your episodes lie on a win-or-lose trial, and once it is done, the interest of the game slows down.
Here is a review of the different episodes:
1. Shining
The game is well balanced and challenging in its first part. The kinghts are not easy to defeat and you have to play with the terrain to attract them in the swamps. This is the challenge of this scenario, but once the initial resistance is broken, it is not as challenging and interest slows down. Shining lacks the possibility to be a true menace until he is encircled; I don't know if it's what you want. Once the 5 knight are killed, most of the game is made of moves toward the enemy's keep, and since the movement in the swamps is very slow, it is quite boring. I think Shining should recruit pedestrian troops once the knights are killed (He could say sth like: "OMG, my knights have been killed by these pesky goblins! you shall pay for this! Guards, raze this vermin!" or the like), and summon archers and pikemen, and maybe one lvl-2 Swordsman as Chief guard. Their slower movement rate would keep the interest during the progression towards Shining's keep. Maybe the map could be refined as well, but it's fine for now.
Ah, another point: one sees you are interested in swamps due to mangrove trees, but I think it could be used better I will explain later how imo.
2. Healer and Slayer
I will not speak of the story part, which is always interesting and well done. Concerning the bat capture, it's ok, though not as funny once you get the trick. But, the part where you have to search the healing potion is not very interesting, because if you start in the wrong way, you lose... and you simply load the previous turn. There is nothing to understand and nothing to guess, it's simply by chance. I believe that people who play wesnoth do it because it keeps their mind busy.
Maybe, if a wild would steal the potion, and you had to corner it with the tamed bat without hurting it, it would be more interesting (the bat IA would be: simply evade): if you attack the bat, the bottle gets broken, so you have to corner it so that it has no move left, for example. Then it gets tamed and you can take the bottle, and take all bats in the box.
It's only a suggestion.
The part with the bats in the box used to kill Rashiki is very interesting and clever.
3. Exodus
Much to say about this one. The option of using swamp wild creatures against the lizards is interesting, because you have to guess the IA's next actions. Though, due to this, the goblins get sticked a few hexes south to the Goblin Keep. This is even more necessary if you consider the terrain: the only way to win seems to have the wild animals attack the lizards while staying on firm ground or attract them on firm ground. This sort of terrain is on one only place of the map; so, there is no alternate way to escape (for example on the west of the river) because firm ground is the only acceptable terrain.
So, you get sticked on the center of the map until the last lizard gets killed. Then, it becomes far less challenging: you have to move the leader (very slowly) towards the south with a bat escort. The lizard general poses no threat anymore, since he has no villages any more.
Maybe the map should be shorter or broader, or offer alternate ways. Or, someting could renew the lizard's menace. You had a good idea in triggering new wild animals with the enmy general's death, but maybe they should continue to appear randomly during the whole scenario, offering new allies / enemies and keeping the challenge and offering alternate ways to upgrade / sacrifice your goblins.
4. At Death's Door
One of your best part, since it's a storytelling part. I don't know what it gives if your leader is close to next level and gains a level while poisoned. It would spoil the mood, for sure.
5. It takes a Swampling
Infiltration part should be harder. It seems that guards don't attack if you are in their line of sight, I think they should (except the garrison chief), in order to keep things interesting. Did not even try to recruit (I went to the sewers immediately)
The second part (with rats) has the same flaw of other scenarios: once you've broken the initial resistance, the rest is a countrywalk. I think you should scale enemies so that they appear little by little. Maybe the guards could pursue the characters from a distance, so they should hurry. The way could be arranged so that the rats could be a nuisance either for clammies's team or for the pursuers. They could spawn at regular intervals, for example.
6. Rogue's Reward
Far too easy: nothing prevents that poor rogue chieftain to be devoured by bats while the gobs keep the mobs occupied. Maybe it's the way you wanted it? The island in the center is a good trap though. I preferred let the enemy camp on it and make a goblin wall north to it, along the water. Would the IA choose to camp on the island, it would be very difficult to kick them off, though, but even in that case, it's not necessary, as long as the bats can reach the general.
7. Selling Bats to Merfolk
The same very simple strategy applies: hold the island with a handful of goblins (the mushroom forests), while the bats clear off lone units and devour the leader.
8. Clammie the Healer
A pity one cannot use these potions longer. In fact, I had no use at all of them to slay Shining, since Kennison is so slow and Eeeep the wolfrider simply can't move in caves. I barely acknowledged I was regenerating and healing... Maybe there should be a challenging scenario here so you can enjoy your newfound powers a while before you lose them.
9. Thunderstruck
Dialogues are excellent and funny as usual. The first challenging scenario. I tried a wolfrider wall on the eastern river and a firewand one on the north one. The saurians use to work it around due to their abilities. Teamwork is difficult.
Note: I would have preferred Misris to stay a Nocturne Goblin until otherwise decided and Eeep be promoted to Wolfrider immediately.
10. Meet Mister Blydd.
Very good scenario. Maybe the map could be a little smaller.
11. Ruins of Xsaffraz
Good map. Not too difficult but challenging enough (playing on medium difficulty)
12. DIRE CAVE
Intersting (the story definitely keeps interest), but full of bugs:
- If I take the Speaking Key, game shuts down on the beginning of next turn... Maybe because I already met the troll? If it is of some importance the player does not go on other parts of the map before the altar, there should be grids or gaps, because players always disobey...
- Vizzerdrix heals in towns: -8 poison +10 from resting = +2, normal?
- Ghoul should do something in the 2 places where she goes before disappearing (after chit-chat)? Nothing happens (I suppose she would summon undead?) One thinks something should happen since you get an army of allied Spectres without any enemy...?
- if you return to the altar (if you killed the Green dungeonkeeper before going to the altar), the scene with Ghoul plays again.
Maybe it's because I play under Ubuntu and not Wondows?
Suggest that after saying: "equip goblins with torches", give the possibility for Eeep to transform existing wolf rider in play into a torchbearer for X Gold with a right-click-asterisk, provided unit is on next hex, or to equip basic goblins with torches for 3-2, fire (the same way one equipped Thundergobos). Could be through a campfire.
About the animals:
I think that Greta should be summoned for free at the beginning of each scenario. Otherwise, you do'nt bother summoning a bad lvl1 for 20 Gold.
The swamp wolves should have the "swamp sawy" trait, since wild animals are generally adapted to their environment. Maybe they could have less hp or less cover in plains or mountains, for example.
May I say that rats usually swim very well? I think their cover and move should be uniform, since they swim well, climb well and so on, because they are so small (maybe less in mountains). Their cover should be an average 40% or higher. Even like this, they would not be overpowered.
Kennison could be of the duellist line, since the Archer Sprite does not fit him well. Maybe you wanted him to be an archer, and you would have to change the poem he gives in Rogues Reward when he fires an arrow. But it would fit more to the line, I believe, and be more interesting in terms of teamwork.
Misris could have this sprite instead, and throw bolas and use a knife. Bolas would be 3-1 or 1-3, bashing and slow effect. Knife would be 3-3, slashing and sneak attack (suggestion).
Regards,
GangrN
GangrN
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.3 - 16 scenarios complete
That would be PogoBog04 (Rogues_Reward) and PogoBog06 (Ride_The_Wolf).boru wrote:vcap: Oh. That is interesting. I usually use the flags for another very good reason: the scenario will start with your leader in the center of the map instead of scrolling to him. I don't want my scenarios to start with a scroll.
I'll check my maps to see which ones still need flags. Thanks.
I couln't not load Cotdw01 (Dire_Cave) in the map editor because of the custom terrain types there, but at direct search for the string ', 1 ' show that the flag is there.
Actually, string searching confirm that only PogoBog04 and PogoBog06 lack it. Here is the list of the file in the maps directory that do not contain said string:
Code: Select all
$ grep -L ', 1 ' ~/.wesnoth1.8/data/add-ons/Swamplings/maps/*
/home/vincent/.wesnoth1.8/data/add-ons/Swamplings/maps/PogoBog04
/home/vincent/.wesnoth1.8/data/add-ons/Swamplings/maps/PogoBog06
/home/vincent/.wesnoth1.8/data/add-ons/Swamplings/maps/Ronrys01_Shroud.shroud-
its_crunchtime
- Posts: 7
- Joined: July 24th, 2010, 6:58 pm
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.3 - 16 scenarios complete
I found an other problem with Dire Cave 
While wandering around looking for an enemy to get purples ghost off my key, one of my bats went on a village and I got an error for a troll rocklobber or something....
just so you know in case no one else mentioned it.. or maybe its just me?
By the way, some peoples posts above were calling the bat charming tedious, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and say I found it entertaining
While wandering around looking for an enemy to get purples ghost off my key, one of my bats went on a village and I got an error for a troll rocklobber or something....
just so you know in case no one else mentioned it.. or maybe its just me?
By the way, some peoples posts above were calling the bat charming tedious, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents and say I found it entertaining
What would you attempt to do if you could not fail?
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.3 - 16 scenarios complete
GangrN: Thank you for the very detailed post - I will reply in detail shortly.
vcap: Yup, I found them and added flags ... not sure if anyone will even notice this but it's nice to not have console errors.
crunchtime: I think the rocklobber problem stems from keeping the middle of a saved game (or even the start of Dire Cave) after downloading an update. It's not a critical error but if you have the end of an old game from scenario 13 Ruins of Xaffrasz, you may want to load that instead and play it from there. This way, the updated scenario 14 will load and the rocklobber will work as he's supposed to. Remember, some trolls are ill-tempered but they can also become helpful allies. Glad you liked the bat-charming.
================================================
EDIT: my reply to GangrN
Thanks again for a lot of really solid ideas, many of these will find their way into the campaign.
vcap: Yup, I found them and added flags ... not sure if anyone will even notice this but it's nice to not have console errors.
crunchtime: I think the rocklobber problem stems from keeping the middle of a saved game (or even the start of Dire Cave) after downloading an update. It's not a critical error but if you have the end of an old game from scenario 13 Ruins of Xaffrasz, you may want to load that instead and play it from there. This way, the updated scenario 14 will load and the rocklobber will work as he's supposed to. Remember, some trolls are ill-tempered but they can also become helpful allies. Glad you liked the bat-charming.
================================================
EDIT: my reply to GangrN
Thanks very much for your detailed critique. It’s rare to get something this in-depth. I appreciate the work you’ve put into it.I've done the first 8 episodes so far. You have a knack for storytelling, the story is great at the characters are funny and lovely.
You have a great talent for funny parts and the poems are inspired, too.
The mood is well toned.
If you’re playing on normal difficulty you should have got more than 5 horsemen. Balancing the campaign is an ongoing project. In light of your suggestion I’ll add another village near Shining, but easy games will give his side lower income. What about mangrove trees?Though, Wesnoth is a startegy game, and I think some things can be refined. In fact, most of your episodes lie on a win-or-lose trial, and once it is done, the interest of the game slows down.
Here is a review of the different episodes:
1. Shining
The game is well balanced and challenging in its first part. The kinghts are not easy to defeat and you have to play with the terrain to attract them in the swamps. This is the challenge of this scenario, but once the initial resistance is broken, it is not as challenging and interest slows down. Shining lacks the possibility to be a true menace until he is encircled; I don't know if it's what you want. Once the 5 knight are killed, most of the game is made of moves toward the enemy's keep, and since the movement in the swamps is very slow, it is quite boring. I think Shining should recruit pedestrian troops once the knights are killed (He could say sth like: "OMG, my knights have been killed by these pesky goblins! you shall pay for this! Guards, raze this vermin!" or the like), and summon archers and pikemen, and maybe one lvl-2 Swordsman as Chief guard. Their slower movement rate would keep the interest during the progression towards Shining's keep. Maybe the map could be refined as well, but it's fine for now.
Ah, another point: one sees you are interested in swamps due to mangrove trees, but I think it could be used better I will explain later how imo.
The bat stealing the potion idea is very clever. It might be really difficult to pin a bat. The way it’s set up now is a random guessing game, but you should be able to check all nearby villages before Ronry dies. Is that not happening?2. Healer and Slayer
I will not speak of the story part, which is always interesting and well done. Concerning the bat capture, it's ok, though not as funny once you get the trick. But, the part where you have to search the healing potion is not very interesting, because if you start in the wrong way, you lose... and you simply load the previous turn. There is nothing to understand and nothing to guess, it's simply by chance. I believe that people who play wesnoth do it because it keeps their mind busy.
Maybe, if a wild would steal the potion, and you had to corner it with the tamed bat without hurting it, it would be more interesting (the bat IA would be: simply evade): if you attack the bat, the bottle gets broken, so you have to corner it so that it has no move left, for example. Then it gets tamed and you can take the bottle, and take all bats in the box.
It's only a suggestion.
The part with the bats in the box used to kill Rashiki is very interesting and clever.
This is one of several where I need to do more work on the map. Maybe I’ll give the saurian leader more gold when his team is wiped out.3. Exodus
Much to say about this one. The option of using swamp wild creatures against the lizards is interesting, because you have to guess the IA's next actions. Though, due to this, the goblins get sticked a few hexes south to the Goblin Keep. This is even more necessary if you consider the terrain: the only way to win seems to have the wild animals attack the lizards while staying on firm ground or attract them on firm ground. This sort of terrain is on one only place of the map; so, there is no alternate way to escape (for example on the west of the river) because firm ground is the only acceptable terrain.
So, you get sticked on the center of the map until the last lizard gets killed. Then, it becomes far less challenging: you have to move the leader (very slowly) towards the south with a bat escort. The lizard general poses no threat anymore, since he has no villages any more.
Maybe the map should be shorter or broader, or offer alternate ways. Or, someting could renew the lizard's menace. You had a good idea in triggering new wild animals with the enmy general's death, but maybe they should continue to appear randomly during the whole scenario, offering new allies / enemies and keeping the challenge and offering alternate ways to upgrade / sacrifice your goblins.
Even if he gains a level, he stays poisoned throughout the scenario. I’m glad you enjoyed this one.4. At Death's Door
One of your best part, since it's a storytelling part. I don't know what it gives if your leader is close to next level and gains a level while poisoned. It would spoil the mood, for sure.
I feel the middle of this one is the weakest part, but your criticism of the beginning and end are also valid. My vision for this one is so different from what’s there now. I have to devote some real time to making this as much fun as it should be. The rat issue can easily be fixed by adding a rat king and a little keep near the very end. Having guards attack is easy too, it’s the default behavior. The middle needs ... well, it needs a whole middle. Oh, and you can’t recruit in this one, it’s a “solo” mission.5. It takes a Swampling
Infiltration part should be harder. It seems that guards don't attack if you are in their line of sight, I think they should (except the garrison chief), in order to keep things interesting. Did not even try to recruit (I went to the sewers immediately)
The second part (with rats) has the same flaw of other scenarios: once you've broken the initial resistance, the rest is a countrywalk. I think you should scale enemies so that they appear little by little. Maybe the guards could pursue the characters from a distance, so they should hurry. The way could be arranged so that the rats could be a nuisance either for clammies's team or for the pursuers. They could spawn at regular intervals, for example.
Hmm, I didn’t think the wild things would cause her too much trouble. She’s level two, and they’re level zero bats. I changed the distribution area so the wild things will be scattered more evenly on the map. Also tweaked the ai to avoid their keep, but the ai in this game is a work in progress and sometimes does what it feels is best.6. Rogue's Reward
Far too easy: nothing prevents that poor rogue chieftain to be devoured by bats while the gobs keep the mobs occupied. Maybe it's the way you wanted it? The island in the center is a good trap though. I preferred let the enemy camp on it and make a goblin wall north to it, along the water. Would the IA choose to camp on the island, it would be very difficult to kick them off, though, but even in that case, it's not necessary, as long as the bats can reach the general.
How can it be the same? You said the island was a trap before.7. Selling Bats to Merfolk
The same very simple strategy applies: hold the island with a handful of goblins (the mushroom forests), while the bats clear off lone units and devour the leader.
Defeating a knight should be harder than it turns out to be in this one. When I was planning it out, I thought they’d really need some special attacks so they’d have a chance, but it didn’t turn out as expected. Back to the drawing board.8. Clammie the Healer
A pity one cannot use these potions longer. In fact, I had no use at all of them to slay Shining, since Kennison is so slow and Eeeep the wolfrider simply can't move in caves. I barely acknowledged I was regenerating and healing... Maybe there should be a challenging scenario here so you can enjoy your newfound powers a while before you lose them.
Misris will now have a menu just like Eeep does, so you can change her to wolfrider when you want. Glad you liked this one, it is one of my favorites.9. Thunderstruck
Dialogues are excellent and funny as usual. The first challenging scenario. I tried a wolfrider wall on the eastern river and a firewand one on the north one. The saurians use to work it around due to their abilities. Teamwork is difficult.
Note: I would have preferred Misris to stay a Nocturne Goblin until otherwise decided and Eeep be promoted to Wolfrider immediately.
It just seems large because goblins are so short.10. Meet Mister Blydd.
Very good scenario. Maybe the map could be a little smaller.
No, I want it to be open, so you can explore (except for the parts I’ve closed off, of course). What to you mean by “the game shuts down”? Is that a crash? Does it happen when Clammie gets the key, or when someone on his side picks it up?11. Ruins of Xsaffraz
Good map. Not too difficult but challenging enough (playing on medium difficulty)
12. DIRE CAVE
Intersting (the story definitely keeps interest), but full of bugs:
- If I take the Speaking Key, game shuts down on the beginning of next turn... Maybe because I already met the troll? If it is of some importance the player does not go on other parts of the map before the altar, there should be grids or gaps, because players always disobey...
I’m still adjusting what happens when Skandix is in a village or next to a healer. At the moment, he will get +2 for resting if he rests. If he levels up, he remains poisoned until ... something happens later.- Vizzerdrix heals in towns: -8 poison +10 from resting = +2, normal?
I wanted the creature to run around and then vanish in a puff of magic. I suppose he could summon some WC’s before he goes. In some cases, the player would already be in the middle of a battle with the undead to the south. Maybe I’ll have him resurrect the king zombie in that little keep if you killed him ...- Ghoul should do something in the 2 places where she goes before disappearing (after chit-chat)? Nothing happens (I suppose she would summon undead?) One thinks something should happen since you get an army of allied Spectres without any enemy...?
Normally I’d say no, the game should be the same on all. But I haven’t been able to reproduce either of the bugs you mention, not the game shutting down if you take the key, nor this one. If you could post a saved game it might help me figure it out.- if you return to the altar (if you killed the Green dungeonkeeper before going to the altar), the scene with Ghoul plays again.
Maybe it's because I play under Ubuntu and not Wondows?
Here’s the thing: fire works on some undead units like skeletons, but most of the undead you fight will be WC’s and Soulless, and they have no particular weakness to fire. It’s the same as pierce or blade. The ghast and nightgaunt have a 10% fire resistance.Suggest that after saying: "equip goblins with torches", give the possibility for Eeep to transform existing wolf rider in play into a torchbearer for X Gold with a right-click-asterisk, provided unit is on next hex, or to equip basic goblins with torches for 3-2, fire (the same way one equipped Thundergobos). Could be through a campfire.
This is a great idea and I will definitely do this.About the animals:
I think that Greta should be summoned for free at the beginning of each scenario. Otherwise, you do'nt bother summoning a bad lvl1 for 20 Gold.
Hmm, I’ll think about it. Remember, you have to fight swamp wolves too, so making them better might not help in the long run.The swamp wolves should have the "swamp sawy" trait, since wild animals are generally adapted to their environment. Maybe they could have less hp or less cover in plains or mountains, for example.
That’s a good point. I just took the mainline rat from DID, but you’re right, their movement in water should be better.May I say that rats usually swim very well? I think their cover and move should be uniform, since they swim well, climb well and so on, because they are so small (maybe less in mountains). Their cover should be an average 40% or higher. Even like this, they would not be overpowered.
Well, I wanted them to have at least one unit with a good ranged attack before scenario 11, and Kennison is basically it. I’m using the duelist portrait because I like it and it matches his character better than any of the archer portraits. Why do you believe it would be more interesting to make him a duelist?Kennison could be of the duellist line, since the Archer Sprite does not fit him well. Maybe you wanted him to be an archer, and you would have to change the poem he gives in Rogues Reward when he fires an arrow. But it would fit more to the line, I believe, and be more interesting in terms of teamwork.
When she levels up, she gets bolas. I didn’t want to give her slow and nightstalk at level one, it seemed like too much. A knife is a good idea. Which sprite do you mean?Misris could have this sprite instead, and throw bolas and use a knife. Bolas would be 3-1 or 1-3, bashing and slow effect. Knife would be 3-3, slashing and sneak attack (suggestion).
Thanks again for a lot of really solid ideas, many of these will find their way into the campaign.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.4 - 16 scenarios complete
1. Shining
I really think that several types of units would be more interesting
The problem with knights is that they are up to the fortress (in the middle) in 2 moves, and that they charge: goblins just have to stay in the keeps so that it impales itself with their spears and to finish them with range attacks.
The true trial in this scenario lies in the way you deal with 5-6 knights at the same time, knowing that they attain "safe" grounds before you. Once you have killed them and set camp on good positions, if the IA recruits knights one by one, there is no threat at all. You just kill the recruits until it has no money and then kill the leader.
But, if it recruits pedestrians, you will have to go and take them. Moving is far more difficult than holding a safe position.
- They are odd, need to be reworked imo.
- When a unit comes on a hex with mangroves, it is hidden by the tree.
- they are of no tactical use, so their utility is purely aesthetic; on the other side, their graphical style is not in line with other hexes
- from a physical point of view, Mangroves are not tied to stagnant water, but to places where water goes up and down: seatide, river deltas.
- Their tactical interest is tied to the tide: either swamp and forest, or water and forest according to the tide. The scenario "Temple of Deep" in War of the Dragon is also a good example of tactical use of the tide. There is a much to do with this idea, but a lot of work I guess.
2. Healer & Slayer
5. It takes a Swampling
If the guards attack, their move must be at best equal to Clammie's (6). If they have the same move, then their behavior should be "attack if in line of sight at end of turn". If their beavior is "attack if it came in line of sight during the turn", then their move should be at best 5.
6. Rogue's Reward
No, I'm speaking of my bats. Once the opponents are on the island, they cannot leave it (20%cover in the water vs 50% for my savvy units on the swamp line), but the IA is very dumb so units come on the island (seems to be a good defensive position, but it's not). Meanwhile, I send 5 bats to slaughter the rogue.
7. Selling Bats to Merfolk
10. Meet Mister Blydd.
12. DIRE CAVE
I'll post it.
They could have less hp or dmg or moves.
Maybe you could borrow the Archer unit from the alternate line (I forgot their name), but it looks rather "supernatural".
Tactically, he is more interesting in swamps since he moves quickly and has good cover.
here.
I play normal difficulty. Maybe the IA somewhat preserved gold for further recruitment.In light of your suggestion I’ll add another village near Shining, but easy games will give his side lower income.
I really think that several types of units would be more interesting
The problem with knights is that they are up to the fortress (in the middle) in 2 moves, and that they charge: goblins just have to stay in the keeps so that it impales itself with their spears and to finish them with range attacks.
The true trial in this scenario lies in the way you deal with 5-6 knights at the same time, knowing that they attain "safe" grounds before you. Once you have killed them and set camp on good positions, if the IA recruits knights one by one, there is no threat at all. You just kill the recruits until it has no money and then kill the leader.
But, if it recruits pedestrians, you will have to go and take them. Moving is far more difficult than holding a safe position.
In brief, I think they are in a "alpha-test state" in Wesnoth:What about mangrove trees?
- They are odd, need to be reworked imo.
- When a unit comes on a hex with mangroves, it is hidden by the tree.
- they are of no tactical use, so their utility is purely aesthetic; on the other side, their graphical style is not in line with other hexes
- from a physical point of view, Mangroves are not tied to stagnant water, but to places where water goes up and down: seatide, river deltas.
- Their tactical interest is tied to the tide: either swamp and forest, or water and forest according to the tide. The scenario "Temple of Deep" in War of the Dragon is also a good example of tactical use of the tide. There is a much to do with this idea, but a lot of work I guess.
2. Healer & Slayer
Yes, unless you look first in the mill and in the tent. Random guessing game not funny (safe for the one with the 3 grey bottles: "the green one!" - very funny)The way it’s set up now is a random guessing game, but you should be able to check all nearby villages before Ronry dies. Is that not happening?
5. It takes a Swampling
If the guards attack, their move must be at best equal to Clammie's (6). If they have the same move, then their behavior should be "attack if in line of sight at end of turn". If their beavior is "attack if it came in line of sight during the turn", then their move should be at best 5.
6. Rogue's Reward
No, I'm speaking of my bats. Once the opponents are on the island, they cannot leave it (20%cover in the water vs 50% for my savvy units on the swamp line), but the IA is very dumb so units come on the island (seems to be a good defensive position, but it's not). Meanwhile, I send 5 bats to slaughter the rogue.
7. Selling Bats to Merfolk
The island in 6 is a trap if you want to leave it. The island in 7 is a good holding position.How can it be the same? You said the island was a trap before.
Spoiler:
I was so saying because in the first part you mainly have to wait and see, and the armies just confront on turn 4. They could engage turn 3, but not very important.It just seems large because goblins are so short.
12. DIRE CAVE
It happens when Clammie (or Skandix, or Eep, I've tried) takes the key. She says "Greetings", you continue playing normally until you click "End turn". The other turns process normally. On the beginning of your next turn, the game crashes. If you "leave" the key, it does not happen.What to you mean by “the game shuts down”? Is that a crash? Does it happen when Clammie gets the key, or when someone on his side picks it up?
I'll post it.
But it would have worked nicely on saurians, merfolk and naga. Maybe in earlier scenarios. Not necessary, but it was in line with the "gobos learn to..." idea. I had an idea for the torchbearer unit: at lvl-0 it could be under the effect of illumination (since it hates light, -25% malus at dawn/dusk and no bonus at night), and become neutral at lvl-1. Idea for further developments.Here’s the thing: fire works on some undead units like skeletons, but most of the undead you fight will be WC’s and Soulless, and they have no particular weakness to fire. It’s the same as pierce or blade. The ghast and nightgaunt have a 10% fire resistance.
Oh yes I know. Life's tough you know.Swamp-savvy wolves: Hmm, I’ll think about it. Remember, you have to fight swamp wolves too, so making them better might not help in the long run.
They could have less hp or dmg or moves.
Because it fits his character well. that's true you would have to rewrite the little poem in rogues reward. But the Bowman sprite is heavily armored, it does not fit. Plus, he's a noble, after all, and bow is a vile weapon, you see.Why do you believe it would be more interesting to make him a duelist?
Maybe you could borrow the Archer unit from the alternate line (I forgot their name), but it looks rather "supernatural".
Tactically, he is more interesting in swamps since he moves quickly and has good cover.
That's why I would have preferred to choose wether she becomes a wolfrider, she was still lvl1 when she upgraded.When she levels up, she gets bolas. A knife is a good idea.
Yes it would.I didn’t want to give her slow and nightstalk at level one, it seemed like too much.
Sorry. This one and this one. Also postedWhich sprite do you mean?
here.
Regards,
GangrN
GangrN
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.4 - 16 scenarios complete
I'm putting this right up top because of its importance:
12. DIRE CAVE
12. DIRE CAVE
Please do! I've tested this routine many times and never experienced a crash.It happens when Clammie (or Skandix, or Eep, I've tried) takes the key. She says "Greetings", you continue playing normally until you click "End turn". The other turns process normally. On the beginning of your next turn, the game crashes. If you "leave" the key, it does not happen.
I'll post it.
I think the fact that Horsemen cost 23 gold has a big effect on how this scenario plays too. Maybe I'll add Woodsmen to keep the gobos busy after they've defeated the horsemen.GangrN wrote:I really think that several types of units would be more interesting
The problem with knights is that they are up to the fortress (in the middle) in 2 moves, and that they charge: goblins just have to stay in the keeps so that it impales itself with their spears and to finish them with range attacks.
The true trial in this scenario lies in the way you deal with 5-6 knights at the same time, knowing that they attain "safe" grounds before you. Once you have killed them and set camp on good positions, if the IA recruits knights one by one, there is no threat at all. You just kill the recruits until it has no money and then kill the leader.
But, if it recruits pedestrians, you will have to go and take them. Moving is far more difficult than holding a safe position.
I haven't played that campaign but I like the idea of the tide ebbing and flowing. It might work in Exodus. The story behind the mangroves is rather simple. I saw someone had posted them in the forum, I liked them, so I put them in the game. You're right, they don't match the style of the other trees. Maybe the artist will update them when he has the time.In brief, I think they are in a "alpha-test state" in Wesnoth:
- They are odd, need to be reworked imo.
- When a unit comes on a hex with mangroves, it is hidden by the tree.
- they are of no tactical use, so their utility is purely aesthetic; on the other side, their graphical style is not in line with other hexes
- from a physical point of view, Mangroves are not tied to stagnant water, but to places where water goes up and down: seatide, river deltas.
- Their tactical interest is tied to the tide: either swamp and forest, or water and forest according to the tide. The scenario "Temple of Deep" in War of the Dragon is also a good example of tactical use of the tide. There is a much to do with this idea, but a lot of work I guess.
You should have enough time to check the mill, the tent and all villages before Ronry dies.Yes, unless you look first in the mill and in the tent. Random guessing game not funny (safe for the one with the 3 grey bottles: "the green one!" - very funny)The way it’s set up now is a random guessing game, but you should be able to check all nearby villages before Ronry dies. Is that not happening?
Spoiler:
You don't mention the cuttlefish .. did they change your strategy in any way?No, I'm speaking of my bats. Once the opponents are on the island, they cannot leave it (20%cover in the water vs 50% for my savvy units on the swamp line), but the IA is very dumb so units come on the island (seems to be a good defensive position, but it's not). Meanwhile, I send 5 bats to slaughter the rogue.
Yes. The strategic choice is whether you chose to use the keep for defense or to recruit new units, whether you fight from the mushrooms or at the shoreline (not recommended).Spoiler:
I've thought this over but I think it's better to keep him an archer. Let me know if you remember which alternate line that sprite might be in.Because it fits his character well. that's true you would have to rewrite the little poem in rogues reward. But the Bowman sprite is heavily armored, it does not fit. Plus, he's a noble, after all, and bow is a vile weapon, you see.Why do you believe it would be more interesting to make him a duelist?
Maybe you could borrow the Archer unit from the alternate line (I forgot their name), but it looks rather "supernatural".
Tactically, he is more interesting in swamps since he moves quickly and has good cover.
Both these issues are fixed in 1.0.4. Her experience will carry over and you can choose between types with a menu item.That's why I would have preferred to choose wether she becomes a wolfrider, she was still lvl1 when she upgraded.
These are pretty nice and they would be good placeholders but there are a lot of frames I would have to give up. The mainline goblin spearman has 24 frames! I was able to find two good attack animations for the assassin, one with bolas and one with dagger, but if I swapped out the goblin spearman, I'd give up (1) the idle animation (2) north attack (3) northeast attack (4) south attack (5) defend (6) northeast defend (7) northeast facing. So the losses might outweigh the gains.
Last edited by boru on August 9th, 2010, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.4 - 16 scenarios complete
A quick answer since it's very late:
Then it disappeared and never returned...
I assure you, fighting humans in water while you are in the swamps is very effective.
Aragwaith Archer line and Human Commander. Aragwaith archer is maybe "too" noble, while Longbowman is not enough. Maybe you could use the duellist sprite with archer attacks? it has ranged attack, too (I don't have the slightest idea of what it means to adapt stats and leveling on sprites)
Yes, I killed it twice to upgrade my gobs.You don't mention the cuttlefish .. did they change your strategy in any way?
Then it disappeared and never returned...
I assure you, fighting humans in water while you are in the swamps is very effective.
Uh? but the current sprite for nocturne is inadequate, it has a spear instead of hatchets and a mace... and since you said the knife and bolas would be a good idea...? You mean the assassin has only 2 moves?These are pretty nice and they would be good placeholders but there are a lot of frames I would have to give up. The mainline goblin spearman has 24 frames! I was able to find two good attack animations for the assassin, one with bolas and one with dagger, but if I swapped out the goblin spearman, I'd give up (1) the idle animation (2) north attack (3) northeast attack (4) south attack (5) defend (6) northeast defend (7) northeast facing. So the losses might outweigh the gains.
Alternate Archer sprites:I've thought this over but I think it's better to keep him an archer. Let me know if you remember which alternate line that sprite might be in.
Aragwaith Archer line and Human Commander. Aragwaith archer is maybe "too" noble, while Longbowman is not enough. Maybe you could use the duellist sprite with archer attacks? it has ranged attack, too (I don't have the slightest idea of what it means to adapt stats and leveling on sprites)
Regards,
GangrN
GangrN
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.4 - 16 scenarios complete
Check out the current version of Era Of Magic. The assassin and hunter are there. The assassin has 2 attacks, the knife and the bola. There are six frames and that is including the base frame, and he doesn't move his head in any of them. Maybe if I was going to change the club for the knife (yes I did say the knife is a good idea but I'm still not sure if I want to change it), I would use this, but I consider this to be changing one placeholder for another.GangrN wrote:Uh? but the current sprite for nocturne is inadequate, it has a spear instead of hatchets and a mace... and since you said the knife and bolas would be a good idea...? You mean the assassin has only 2 moves?
I agree that something between the Aragwaith archer and the Longbowman would be ideal. Duelist sprite would not be perfect because he's clearly using a crossbow. Using different stats for sprites is easy to do. Anyway, it will be good when everyone has the just the right sprite but Kennison would be near the end of my list for the moment.Aragwaith Archer line and Human Commander. Aragwaith archer is maybe "too" noble, while Longbowman is not enough. Maybe you could use the duellist sprite with archer attacks? it has ranged attack, too (I don't have the slightest idea of what it means to adapt stats and leveling on sprites)
=======
Version 1.0.5 is now on the add-ons server. I took out everything that had to do with the magical talking key for now, because I don't want anyone crashing because of my campaign.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.5 - 16 scenarios complete
Though I have been looking for translation, I definitely don't understand what "placeholder" means in this context. Could you explain please?
Here are two saves of the game, one before taking the key, one after
Here are two saves of the game, one before taking the key, one after
- Attachments
-
S-Dire_Cave_Tour_25-Key.gz- Clammie does take the key - Crash.
- (133.55 KiB) Downloaded 268 times
-
- S-Dire_Cave_Tour_25-No_Key.gz
- Clammie does not take the Key - no crash.
- (132.33 KiB) Downloaded 271 times
Regards,
GangrN
GangrN
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.5 - 16 scenarios complete
A placeholder is an image (or bit of code or whatever) that you know is not quite right but will still use in the meantime to get other things going.GangrN wrote:Though I have been looking for translation, I definitely don't understand what "placeholder" means in this context. Could you explain please?
What would be most useful is if you could post a save where a crash happen when not Clammie but somebody else take the key.GangrN wrote:Here are two saves of the game, one before taking the key, one after
Re: Re: Swamplings - v1.0.5 - 16 scenarios complete
Just reporting a problem:
There is a bug with the key in the Dire Cave. Should the ghost get to the undead zombie leader first and he dies on the village, the ghost will never leave the village and it becomes impossible to get the key without hand-editing the save game WML to force the unit to move. A [modify_side] with an [avoid] block for the [ai] here probably would do the trick to ensure that they stay away from the key
Fun campaign though, thank you
There is a bug with the key in the Dire Cave. Should the ghost get to the undead zombie leader first and he dies on the village, the ghost will never leave the village and it becomes impossible to get the key without hand-editing the save game WML to force the unit to move. A [modify_side] with an [avoid] block for the [ai] here probably would do the trick to ensure that they stay away from the key
Fun campaign though, thank you
Running Wesnoth 1.12.4 on Mac OSX 10.10
Campaigns:
Campaigns:
Re: Re: Swamplings - v1.0.5 - 16 scenarios complete
arobinson wrote:There is a bug with the key in the Dire Cave. Should the ghost get to the undead zombie leader first and he dies on the village, the ghost will never leave the village and it becomes impossible to get the key without hand-editing the save game WML to force the unit to move.
Hi, thanks for your post. The new version fixes all key problems you're experiencing. Please download the update, reload a saved game from the previous scenario and all will be well.
Ah, but that would only work if we knew exactly on which hex the key would be dropped.arobinson wrote:A [modify_side] with an [avoid] block for the [ai] here probably would do the trick to ensure that they stay away from the key
EDIT: Actually, I could use a variable for that location, the thing is, the zombie king often dies in the nearby village, then it's a question of whether the ai will obey the avoid tag or go for the village. My solution (before I ended up removing all mention of the key in 1.0.5) was to use the {MOVE_UNIT_TO} macro on any allied unit that steps on the key.
======
(nods)vcap wrote:A placeholder is an image (or bit of code or whatever) that you know is not quite right but will still use in the meantime to get other things going.GangrN wrote:Though I have been looking for translation, I definitely don't understand what "placeholder" means in this context. Could you explain please?
(nods vigorously)vcap wrote:What would be most useful is if you could post a save where a crash happen when not Clammie but somebody else take the key.GangrN wrote:Here are two saves of the game, one before taking the key, one after
Thank you both for your excellent help.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
Re: Swamplings - v1.0.5 - 16 scenarios complete
Yup!
seems it was the answer. Should skip a move if clammie gets the key directly.What would be most useful is if you could post a save where a crash happen when not Clammie but somebody else take the key.
- Attachments
-
- S-Dire_Cave_Tour_43-ClammieKey.gz
- Key taken by Clammie
- (137.86 KiB) Downloaded 251 times
-
- S-Dire_Cave_Tour_43-SakandixKey.gz
- Key taken by skandix (not tested)
- (138.71 KiB) Downloaded 265 times
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- S-Dire_Cave_Tour_43-VigdishKey.gz
- Key taken by wolf ;)
- (137.53 KiB) Downloaded 256 times
Regards,
GangrN
GangrN