Idea: Activated Abilities
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Idea: Activated Abilities
I've been playing this game ravenously for a few weeks now, and I think now I'm getting a pretty good handle on the rules. Enough so now that I'm starting to get some ideas. What I'm about to suggest is actually a large body of a bunch of ideas, and I realize what I'm about to suggest is a pretty big change. I believe some of this at least can be implemented while still remaining KISS. So without much further ado:
Activated Abilities--An activated ability is an action a player may take with a unit other than movement and combat. A player utilizes a unit's activated abilities via buttons located beneath the unit's attack listings on the sidebar. A given activated abilitywill have a cost of usage. Possible costs for usage for abilities include:
1) Specified number of movement points
2) All remaining movement points
3) All remaining actions (move and attack) for the unit
4) Gold
5) Hit Points
6) Mana (for 'magic user' units; mana would be another characteristic like hit points or experience that gets spent by 'magical' activated abilities and replenished slowly turn by turn. In effect creating a multi-turn time delay for an activated ability.)
Effects for activated abilities could vary greatly. To give you some idea what I have in mind, here's a few units I thought up on the fly:
Engineer (Loyalist Faction)
Modest infantry unit with several activated abilities:
Build-Costs the Engineer it's remaining movement and places a bridge in the current hex if the Engineer is standing in shallow water.
Fortify-Costs the Engineer it's remaining movement and places a 'fortification' in the current hex. A hex with a fortification in it is treated as a keep for combat (but not movement) purposes. A fortification is destroyed if an enemy unit enters the hex or a friendly unit in the fortification dies. (yeah, I know, the fortification idea is very half-baked right now).
Demolish-Costs the Engineer it's remaining movement and places a grassland tile in the current hex if the Engineer is standing in a forest hex.
Miner (Dwarf Faction)
Another modest infantry unit with some activated abilities:
mine-Costs the Miner it's remaining movement. Player gets 1 additional gold on his next turn.
Dig-Costs the Miner it's remaining movement. Places a hole in the current hex, or removes a hole if there is one in the current hex. A player may only have two holes. Treat hexes with your holes on them to be adjacent to each other, regardless of where they are on the map.
Woodland Faerie (Rebel Faction)
A low HP, fast moving unit with mana and some activated abilties:
Seed-Costs the Faerie its remaining movement. If the Faerie is on grassland, that hex becomes forest.
Summon Bear-Takes all of the Faerie's mana and produces a level 0 Bear unit. The Bear is a slow, relatively wimpy unit.
Catapult (Loyalist Faction)
A sluggish (move 3) unit with no melee or ranged attacks and one activated ability:
Catapult-Costs 3 movement points. Select an enemy unit at least 2 hexes away but no more than 4 hexes away. That unit receives a 20 damage impact attack, normal resistances and terrain modifiers apply.
Gnomish Repeater (Dwarven Faction)
A unit with 4 MP and no attacks and one activated ability:
Repeater-Costs 1 movement point. Select up to two enemy units up to 4 hexes away. These units each receive a 4 point piercing attack; normal resistances and terrain modifiers apply.
Sundry half-baked magical activated abilities include:
Teleport-teleport a unit X hexes away to a location Y hexes away from it's current location.
Juxtaposition-switch the places of two units within X hexes of the caster.
Heal (different from the other ability)-heals 8 HP on a friendly non-undead unit X hexes away or deals 8 (automatic hit) damage to target enemy undead unit X hexes away.
Hasten-Grants friendly unit up to X hexes away 5 extra movement points this turn.
Mind Control-Target enemy unit up to X hexes away is restored to full movement points and is under your control for this turn. Mana cost varies depending on the level of the target unit.
Detonation-Makes a single 16 point magical fire attack against target enemy unit up to X hexes away. enemy units adjacent to that unit take an 8 point magical fire attack.
Lighting Bolt-Makes a single 8 point fire attack against target enemy unit up to X hexes away. If successful, another Lightning Bolt attack is made against adjacent enemy units that have not themselves already been affected by this lighting bolt.
Summon {Whatever}-Spawns a {Whatever} unit in an open hex adjacent to the caster.
That's about all I care to post right now; it's late and I think you guys get the idea. I look forward to hearing what you guys think.
Activated Abilities--An activated ability is an action a player may take with a unit other than movement and combat. A player utilizes a unit's activated abilities via buttons located beneath the unit's attack listings on the sidebar. A given activated abilitywill have a cost of usage. Possible costs for usage for abilities include:
1) Specified number of movement points
2) All remaining movement points
3) All remaining actions (move and attack) for the unit
4) Gold
5) Hit Points
6) Mana (for 'magic user' units; mana would be another characteristic like hit points or experience that gets spent by 'magical' activated abilities and replenished slowly turn by turn. In effect creating a multi-turn time delay for an activated ability.)
Effects for activated abilities could vary greatly. To give you some idea what I have in mind, here's a few units I thought up on the fly:
Engineer (Loyalist Faction)
Modest infantry unit with several activated abilities:
Build-Costs the Engineer it's remaining movement and places a bridge in the current hex if the Engineer is standing in shallow water.
Fortify-Costs the Engineer it's remaining movement and places a 'fortification' in the current hex. A hex with a fortification in it is treated as a keep for combat (but not movement) purposes. A fortification is destroyed if an enemy unit enters the hex or a friendly unit in the fortification dies. (yeah, I know, the fortification idea is very half-baked right now).
Demolish-Costs the Engineer it's remaining movement and places a grassland tile in the current hex if the Engineer is standing in a forest hex.
Miner (Dwarf Faction)
Another modest infantry unit with some activated abilities:
mine-Costs the Miner it's remaining movement. Player gets 1 additional gold on his next turn.
Dig-Costs the Miner it's remaining movement. Places a hole in the current hex, or removes a hole if there is one in the current hex. A player may only have two holes. Treat hexes with your holes on them to be adjacent to each other, regardless of where they are on the map.
Woodland Faerie (Rebel Faction)
A low HP, fast moving unit with mana and some activated abilties:
Seed-Costs the Faerie its remaining movement. If the Faerie is on grassland, that hex becomes forest.
Summon Bear-Takes all of the Faerie's mana and produces a level 0 Bear unit. The Bear is a slow, relatively wimpy unit.
Catapult (Loyalist Faction)
A sluggish (move 3) unit with no melee or ranged attacks and one activated ability:
Catapult-Costs 3 movement points. Select an enemy unit at least 2 hexes away but no more than 4 hexes away. That unit receives a 20 damage impact attack, normal resistances and terrain modifiers apply.
Gnomish Repeater (Dwarven Faction)
A unit with 4 MP and no attacks and one activated ability:
Repeater-Costs 1 movement point. Select up to two enemy units up to 4 hexes away. These units each receive a 4 point piercing attack; normal resistances and terrain modifiers apply.
Sundry half-baked magical activated abilities include:
Teleport-teleport a unit X hexes away to a location Y hexes away from it's current location.
Juxtaposition-switch the places of two units within X hexes of the caster.
Heal (different from the other ability)-heals 8 HP on a friendly non-undead unit X hexes away or deals 8 (automatic hit) damage to target enemy undead unit X hexes away.
Hasten-Grants friendly unit up to X hexes away 5 extra movement points this turn.
Mind Control-Target enemy unit up to X hexes away is restored to full movement points and is under your control for this turn. Mana cost varies depending on the level of the target unit.
Detonation-Makes a single 16 point magical fire attack against target enemy unit up to X hexes away. enemy units adjacent to that unit take an 8 point magical fire attack.
Lighting Bolt-Makes a single 8 point fire attack against target enemy unit up to X hexes away. If successful, another Lightning Bolt attack is made against adjacent enemy units that have not themselves already been affected by this lighting bolt.
Summon {Whatever}-Spawns a {Whatever} unit in an open hex adjacent to the caster.
That's about all I care to post right now; it's late and I think you guys get the idea. I look forward to hearing what you guys think.
They may be, but these "activations" as an idea are very near to the spells forbidden here. The fact that every usage suggested is a no-no just makes it worse.Baltar wrote:....all of which are incidental to the core 'idea' of my proposal.
Dave wrote:In Wesnoth, wars would be decided with sword and bow. Mages would be involved too, of course, but warfare was to be about guiding troops around strategically, not about which spell to cast and where. So, from the beginning I decided that all spells would be implicit, or simply a type of attack.
Ok, you win on that count. It really is about implementing 'no-nos' as you call them. I'm just not convinced that all of these ideas should be written off so easily. In fact, I just noticed a rather large thread a few pages into this Ideas forum where people were discussing teleport graphics and game mechanics.They may be, but these "activations" as an idea are very near to the spells forbidden here. The fact that every usage suggested is a no-no just makes it worse.
In my earlier skimming of that philosophy page I missed that particular quote, though I believe my ideas still hold to the other magic-related statements in that document. Furthermore, just because 'it's been written' I don't believe is sufficient reason to reject ideas; it should be about whether or not it could work, not arbitrary judgements about how all 'magical' abilities should be implemented. If it is totally unworkable, or if it is totally unfun, then I will gladly shut up. Until then I still think it's worth a look.
This post brought to you by the GNAA.
Guy who wrote that is the lead coder, and much more... He made what was essentially the core of this game all by himself.
Things have changed, but things have not changed.
Our current graphics and interface are the most striking improvements (and multi, maybe). But the gameplay is essentially identical to version 0.1.
Though I would actually like to see certain usable abilities added, they should be damned rare. Delfador is really crying out for something, but I can't think of anyone else in HTTT, save perhaps Kalenz, who would merit such an ability.
I would that abilities were implemented on a turn timer - one use every eight turns, etc. Or, like the mysterious gold spheres that Alric used in Myth, a character could have only a limited number of them per level.
Alric only had three dispersal dreams per level, sometimes four.
Things have changed, but things have not changed.
Our current graphics and interface are the most striking improvements (and multi, maybe). But the gameplay is essentially identical to version 0.1.
Though I would actually like to see certain usable abilities added, they should be damned rare. Delfador is really crying out for something, but I can't think of anyone else in HTTT, save perhaps Kalenz, who would merit such an ability.
I would that abilities were implemented on a turn timer - one use every eight turns, etc. Or, like the mysterious gold spheres that Alric used in Myth, a character could have only a limited number of them per level.
Alric only had three dispersal dreams per level, sometimes four.
They haven't been written off 'easily'. THey have been debated, and rejected, many times. There has been enough debating on them, we need no more.Baltar wrote:Ok, you win on that count. It really is about implementing 'no-nos' as you call them. I'm just not convinced that all of these ideas should be written off so easily.They may be, but these "activations" as an idea are very near to the spells forbidden here. The fact that every usage suggested is a no-no just makes it worse.
Arch mages have teleport as an implicit specialty. It is completely different than what you want. So how is this relevant?Baltar wrote: In fact, I just noticed a rather large thread a few pages into this Ideas forum where people were discussing teleport graphics and game mechanics.
Besides, just because users want to discuss something doesn't mean the devs need to consider it.
As i said, they have been considered, and have been rejected... but i would say that, in general, Dave controls what is in-game and Dave will continue to control what is in-game, and so suggesting an idea that contradicts everything Dave has said is not a great idea.Baltar wrote:In my earlier skimming of that philosophy page I missed that particular quote, though I believe my ideas still hold to the other magic-related statements in that document. Furthermore, just because 'it's been written' I don't believe is sufficient reason to reject ideas; it should be about whether or not it could work, not arbitrary judgements about how all 'magical' abilities should be implemented. If it is totally unworkable, or if it is totally unfun, then I will gladly shut up. Until then I still think it's worth a look.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Re: Idea: Activated Abilities
Baltar wrote: That's about all I care to post right now; it's late and I think you guys get the idea. I look forward to hearing what you guys think.
Did you look forward to such a chilly reception? Most people read this and think, wow that would be a completely different game! You need to get spun up on TWP.
Last edited by scott on September 16th, 2004, 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This brainstorming made me think of another activated ability that would not be 'spell like'. Forced march! How often have you wanted to reach 1(or more) spaces further at any cost? Has this been discussed?Circon wrote: They may be, but these "activations" as an idea are very near to the spells forbidden
Forced March Activates with a button giving 20% (minimum of one) more MP. The unit is now tired and has a damage penalty for the related combat(and the opponants next turn same as slow). Say -20% to dammage or so.
Whould this be too radical for the existing balance and AI? It adds many more choices. Scenarios with a 'race to a place' could be severly changed. My feelings won't be hurt if this is nixed(not accepted) but I thought it was not bad.
The shovel saves more lives than the sword.
It sounds to me as though people have seen these suggested modifications in other games and are wanted to place them in this game. I just want to say that one of the reasons I love Battle for Wesnoth is that it is unlike any game I have ever played before. If I wanted mana, summoning, long range attacks, polymorphing, ect.... I could go and play those other games that have them. I think you guys are doing a great job with the game, keeping it as simple as it is. Keep up the good work.
My two cents
My two cents
Interesting... Forced march, 1 more tile, and you get an automatic "slow" effect? Bother the damage. My weapon does the same damage, but I might be too tired to swing it so often- yes, slow sounds nice.Fortify wrote: This brainstorming made me think of another activated ability that would not be 'spell like'. Forced march! How often have you wanted to reach 1(or more) spaces further at any cost? Has this been discussed?
Forced March Activates with a button giving 20% (minimum of one) more MP. The unit is now tired and has a damage penalty for the related combat(and the opponants next turn same as slow). Say -20% to damage or so.
If you don`t want to give to every unit in the game, maybe it could only be activated if a higher-level unit with leadership is in adjancent hex?Fortify wrote:This brainstorming made me think of another activated ability that would not be 'spell like'. Forced march! How often have you wanted to reach 1(or more) spaces further at any cost? Has this been discussed?Circon wrote: They may be, but these "activations" as an idea are very near to the spells forbidden
Forced March Activates with a button giving 20% (minimum of one) more MP. The unit is now tired and has a damage penalty for the related combat(and the opponants next turn same as slow). Say -20% to dammage or so.
Whould this be too radical for the existing balance and AI? It adds many more choices. Scenarios with a 'race to a place' could be severly changed. My feelings won't be hurt if this is nixed(not accepted) but I thought it was not bad.
Read about the adventurers of my pen & paper RPG group
"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on." - Guess who?
"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on." - Guess who?
No forced marches please. Yes, they would create more tactical options. But think further - we'd have to add fatigue rules and such. If a unit is slowed by adding movement, why not slowed by fording a river (apart from moving fewer hexes, it is slowed the turn after leaving the river) and so on. Basically, anything, that when examined potentially adds a whole new layer of complexity, should be avoided.
as kingfishers catch fire
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
You're the one adding complexity levels. The idea is "march into tiredness 1 hex further" -> "unit slowed for 1 turn." No special rules.autolycus wrote:No forced marches please. Yes, they would create more tactical options. But think further - we'd have to add fatigue rules and such. If a unit is slowed by adding movement, why not slowed by fording a river (apart from moving fewer hexes, it is slowed the turn after leaving the river) and so on. Basically, anything, that when examined potentially adds a whole new layer of complexity, should be avoided.
I said 'potentially adds'. The point is that if forced marches induce slowing, sooner or later, it becomes obvious that other things can also induce slowing of the same kind. Currently, we don't use this particular slowing for one turn effect. The complexity level is lower.
as kingfishers catch fire
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH