Filling the unit tree

[fmunoz]

I was away a few days so no computer nor Gimp. Unable to finish the graphics of already created units I picked my trusted notebook and designed a few new units just to fill some gaps in the units tree.
Undeads.
I'll scan the concept images later and post them here.
For undeads
Shadow -> 2nd level, optional advance from ghost, porposed skill:nightstalk (i.e. invisibility at night turns) weaker melee than wraith, no ranged attack.
Nightgaunt -> 3nd level, advance from shadow, porposed skill:nightstalk (i.e. invisibility at night turns) and skirmisher. No ranged attack.
Spectre -> 3rd level, advance from wraith, same but just a bit (not very much powerfull)
Necrophage -> 2nd level advance from ghoul, already talked about it somewhere, every kill made heal him a bit, less resistance to pierce, more resistance to crush than regular undeads.
Gorger -> 3rd level advance from Necrophage, same as above, fat ugly, too many fangs, slimy thing.
For Orcs and such.
Dire Wolf-> 3r5d level advance from goblin knight. stronger with regular spear charge attack. Big bad black wolf.

For humans
Swordmaster->3rd level Fencer/duelist.

And a few others ... but I'm not happy with the ideas so no post for them yet.

PS I got a nice wacom tablet

[Dobob]

I also have drawn (with a pencil) a werewolf unit (normal - attack - defense sprites) and his upgrade (normal - attack - defense sprites too). So, maybe in 1~3 weeks I could post the result. (I can't show you anything now, since I don't have a scanner for some days.)

I know they won't fit in any race (except maybe orcs) so far, but it would be great to have some unit that can fight elves in forest.

[fmunoz]

Some images can be seen in the Art section of this board.
http://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpB ... =4134#4134

[Svetac]

fmunoz, those unit concepts are great and I like them. The only thing that bugs me is the name of the Dire Wolf. Wolf Rider > Goblin Knight > Dire Wolf - the first two mention the controller of the controller of the Wolf as well, so I think the third one should also keep the rider in the concept and keep it's name in the unit name. How about Goblin Champion? Or something along these lines. Oh, and I love that Gorger, I can't wait to see him.

[telex4]

How about a Goblin Wolf Chariot?

[quartex]

I suppose Goblin Equestrian isn't quite in the style of the game?

Goblin WolfLord maybe?

[yawningdog]

How about a Goblin Wolf Chariot?

Very cool, that would be great.

[benj]

About orcs, I'm thinking about a goblin "banner carrier", who would be very weak in fight but that has the leadership ability.

My interpretations of orcish society is that signs, shamanism and banners are very important to them, so this would simulate the power of Orcish banners, which impel their warriors.

This would also add some interresting subtilty to strategy as orcs would have to protect banner carriers, which are very precious but very vunerable.

I have some sketches drawn (as well as sketches of an orcish ruler), but no scanner ATM.

[quartex]

Benj, I really like the the idea of a weak but powerful support unit. Makes sense as goblins are probably weaker than their orc cousines. Do we have goblin shamans yet? Having not played an orc campaign I don't know the goblin/orc units as well as the elf ones.

[Svetac]

I too like the idea of banner carrier. Great.

[jmosher]

I think there ought to be a level 3 for the Outrider, named something like "Will o' Wisp," who would have gained the skirmisher ability but no more combat strength. He could use a shadowy version of the current Outrider graphics (i.e. just a grey-green shading unless someone wants to be more ambitious). It fits the role perfectly, and would give something to push for. The drawback would be a massive XP requirement: something like 150 or 200. Since Outriders would rarely make it that far, this ought to make the Will o' Wisps an exciting possibility but not imbalancing.

[fmunoz]

I think there ought to be a level 3 for the Outrider, named something like "Will o' Wisp," who would have gained the skirmisher ability but no more combat strength. He could use a shadowy version of the current Outrider graphics (i.e. just a grey-green shading unless someone wants to be more ambitious). It fits the role perfectly, and would give something to push for. The drawback would be a massive XP requirement: something like 150 or 200. Since Outriders would rarely make it that far, this ought to make the Will o' Wisps an exciting possibility but not imbalancing.

Outrides are a very powerfull units used carefully, working on pairs or threesomes outrides could gang on an lone enemy unit, kill them (either with arrows or melee so nobody is safe) and flee next turn to the woods' safety. Nobody is safe from outrides... giving them skirmish will make them too powerfull. Levels are also a kind of balance. outides are more usefull than archers but no 3rd level means that you have to ponder your choice.
IMHO I think that elves are already very well balanced (not counting gryphons)

[quartex]

Of course I thought outriders were rare and hard to get becuase scouts aren't combat units, they're scouts, and thus they are much harder to level up in combat. I always figured knights and paladins were better hit and run units, but I guess outriders do have better manuverability. But I agree, a level 3 unit would just be impossible to get, seeing as even at level 2 they aren't very powerful in combat.

[miyo]

Some units should have only 2 levels, some 3 levels, and few 4 levels.

- Miyo

[Dave]

Outriders are pretty cool units, for a number of reasons:

- they're very fast, even in rugged terrain.
- they have good defense in villages (40% chance to hit them) unlike all other horse-based units (60%).
- they have decent enough fighting - dealing a little more damage at close range than an Elvish Fighter and are about equivalent to an Elvish Archer at long range. They're great for siezing obscure villages, because few other units that can reach such villages can match Outriders well in combat.

Outriders are almost certainly better than either Goblin Knights or Goblin Pillagers - their counterparts on the Orcish side. Personally I HATE fighting Goblin Knights: they are one of my most hated enemies.

Remember, a unit that is fast has to have its combat power tempered - a unit that is powerful in combat and fast is unbalancingly strong. After all, who hates Wraiths? They're not *that* powerful in combat, but it's their combat power combined with their speed that makes them vicious.

David