Multiplayer map 1vs1

[Yogibear]

Lately, i tried to think of a new 1vs1 multiplayer map. I had a couple of things in mind, that i wanted the map to fulfill:
- it should not be symmetric
- it should not look so - errm - "constructed", like some standard 1vs1 maps do. Ideally it should look like a natural landscape.
- it should allow for bigger chunks of forest, so that ambush is of some use
- it should give opportunities to use submerge
- it should favor constant use of scouts (not only in the beginning)
- it should give some use for water units
- it should favor an aggressive style of play

Hmm, quite a list . I am not sure if a single map is even capable of giving all that, but i gave it a try.

I am open for comments and critiques, but please keep in mind, that this is the first time i seriously used the map editor .

At this stage, i am not so much interested in details, but rather general issues, for example "the map is too big" or "the villages are too easy to defend" or "Drakes will rule because of their mobility" or "the forest chunks will be deadly/overpowering for <faction x>", stuff like that. Let me also add that i read about the map design guides long ago, but didn't consult them again for this map. So there might well be a couple of flaws in it.

Some things you might wonder about:
The more exposed villages have an oasis not far away. The main use of that is to give the attacker a way to heal and cure poison, as he will be miles away from the next (own) village. At the moment it's just an idea, might be way overpowering the attacker, i don't know.
The two passages with impassable mountains guarding the river are meant to give an easy passage for water units but a much harder time to fliers (especially drakes), so they are forced to get around them.
I am also a little unsure about the dimensions and proportions. Maybe the frontline villages of both players in the middle are too far away from each other.
The big chunk of forest in the eastern part is probably oversized. Shouldn't be too much of a problem though to shrink that one. Or maybe divide it into two separated smaller chunks.

So do you think this has potential to be further worked on or is it a hopeless case?

Edit:
I haven't yet thought about a name, if you have a nice idea, don't hold it back .

Edit2: Removed the link as the image is not hosted on imagebin anymore.

[jb]

Hey Yogibear,

Nice to see you diving into the editor

I think your list is a pretty good one.

Your map needs some work. I've taken a casual glance, and a few things I notice right away:
-Too much open grassland area. I especially don't like having that many villages without terrain near them.
-Too many solid blocks of similar terrain. I like to have hills in my woods and swamps in my woods, etc. Mixing and matching hills and woods is key for diversity between elfs/dwarfs/orcs/saurians. The way you've split them up is basically a straight line, so units are either in a hill area or a woods area, instead of a mixed area.
-Too much desert. A single road through the long south patch of desert is bound to cause traffic jams for everyone but drakes.

Keep up the work!

cheers

<This reminds me that we need to host a map-making contest>

[mabeenot]

I like the S shape you gave the map. I have to agree with jb's comments that there's too much open grassland and the trees could use some thinning out. It's still a good start to your map.

I understand your wish to encourage ambushes from those trees, but you could keep ambush points while also mixing in some hills or other terrains to make the area more friendly to non-elves.

The narrow rivers leading from the keeps to the big river may give mermen and nagas an advantage. The submerged castles cutting off the main north-south highway should make for some interesting defensive options.

The sand will give Drakes an advantage in capturing the southern village, but the northern desert has little strategic value since it's easily avoided and has no village. Luckily, the inclusion of some impassible mountains along the wide river will limit Drake mobility in the center of the map.

You could add a little decoration in the open space behind the keeps so it's more pleasing to the eye. Just keep in mind that not much will be going on back there.

I haven't yet thought about a name, if you have a nice idea, don't hold it back .

How about Yogi River, Winding Waters, or Flooded Valley

<This reminds me that we need to host a map-making contest>

Yes, please.

[Cruz]

Ooh an opportunity to promote my map:

the map:

It should satisfy many of your criterias, and i have used ambush there very successful, even submerge
As to how constructed it looks, well, that's up to you

[Yogibear]

Alright, i reworked the map quite a bit:

The forest in the middle of the map has been removed almost completely. This was mostly with regards to Loyalists to let them be able to cross that area more quickly (the old passages through the forest could be blocked very easily), but probably other factions as well.
- I thinned all forest areas with forested hills and swamp.
- I added another frontline village, because it appeared to me that the nearest enemy village was too far away from your own.
- I changed the keep to look like a little town.
- The map has a name now, it's called "Snake River". It's preliminary, maybe something better reveals itself eventually.
- Probably some more minor tweaks i forgot.

After some playtesting yesterday, there were a couple of additional changes:
- The small keeps got one more recruiting hex.
- I removed the second oasis in the south.
- I also changed the terrain next to it from desert to something better matching the adjacent hexes.

In a playtest yesterday (special thanks to Rigor and Kvinkunx for doing that) it was suggested to further close the middle area, so that fliers have a harder time (drakes ruled in that match). I still take that into consideration, but i am not convinced yet it was the reason undead lost, as they were attacking at day and the additional oasis did help the drakes, too. I feel it would slow down dynamics significantly if the middle gets closed and i only want to do that if it is really necessary. So i am looking for more evidence on this one.

Some explanations if you want to playtest the map:

It is not possible for any scout (including quick ones) to reach an enemy village by turn two. It is however possible on turn 3, so P2 should make sure to cover his more exposed villages by then.

The sunken ruins in the river are there to protect your retreat path from incoming water units. You will have to keep a unit there to block that might not take part in the attack, but it might be worth it.

The nearest small keep can be reached with your leader in one turn, the far away keep is two turns from there. So if you recruit, then move out, you can recruit at the far away keep next turn again. You might also consider not to take the backyard village with your leader on turn 1, but instead move to the next keep and recruit another scout.

As P2, if P1 attacks and conquers the terrain east to the southern impassable mountain passage, you will have to take care of your southwest villages, as pressure on them increases significantly. As an alternative you might consider to block P1 from getting there in the first place (the terrain in the middle south of the river can be defended well), but that will be highly depending on the faction matchup (in most cases, you wouldn't want to do that vs Undead, for example). However, if you make sure to have some good village holders there, you should be fine.

[jb]

I'm just saying.

[Yogibear]

I'm just saying.

It will be there eventually, just need to do some more playtesting .

[Yogibear]

More playtesting revealed some design flaws:

On the right side of the map, distances between villages are too far. Therefore, it can't be used for serious attacks. P1 got his village moved a little up to account for that, P2 got his village formerly on the right border moved up a lot close to the forest. The distance between those villages is a lot smaller now, allowing for sneaking as well as serious attacks.
Some terrain changes were done to be consistent with the new village positions. For example the oasis in the north and the fort hex to guard it are moved appropriately.

For the same reason, P1's village on the left border got moved up a few hexes.

The river passages got another mushroom hex to make it still harder for drake fliers to pass. Now the glider should be the only unit that can reasonable use those passages.

The town areas behind the keep got two more villages, so that every player has 9 villages now. That ensures for a more steady flow of money beyond the first few turns, which in my opinion servers two issues: The gameplay becomes more dynamic and the loss of a single unit does not hurt so much (likewise the temporary loss of a village).

The southern desert got rid of the mountains/hills. I got the feeling they don't match as well as in the north, where there is "normal" mountains in the neighbourhood.

A couple of more cosmetical changes for consistency of landscape (for example roads) or just to please the eye a little more.

Snake River

Tactics correction:
An above post mentions that scouts can reach enemy villages on turn 3: That is not correct. Turn 4 is the earliest turn an enemy village can be taken. So as P2, you should make sure to take your more exposed villages by turn 3.

Edit:
What i also like about the map: Leaders are very busy with recruiting . If you decide to commit your leader to the fight, even for your own frontline villages it will be at least two turns without recruiting. Which means it will take 4 turns minimum until new units arrive at the frontline (except scouts of course). And i tell you, that hurts . Therefore, if you attack, you are not so likely having to deal with a leader in addition to a good defensive line.

[Doc Paterson]

Tactics correction:
An above post mentions that scouts can reach enemy villages on turn 3: That is not correct. Turn 4 is the earliest turn an enemy village can be taken.

No, you were right before. P1 need only recruit a quick scout (or an Elven Scout) to 11,6. That scout then moves one hex past P1's middle-center village, then steals P2's middle-center village on turn 3.

Gathering all of your villages takes a while here, so being able to do that and then focus enough power in the center, faster than a more durable village holder can arrive, will be very difficult for P2. Because of that, I think a clever P1 player would take the steal every time they got Elves or a quick scout there.

Outside of that, things look generally pretty good, and I think this one has improved a lot. Great work.

[Yogibear]

Tactics correction:
An above post mentions that scouts can reach enemy villages on turn 3: That is not correct. Turn 4 is the earliest turn an enemy village can be taken.

No, you were right before. P1 need only recruit a quick scout (or an Elven Scout) to 11,6. That scout then moves one hex past P1's middle-center village, then steals P2's middle-center village on turn 3.

Ugh, indeed, i forgot about 11,6 .

I moved P2's center village back a hex, "covered" it by some harder to pass terrain for elvish scouts and reordered the fort keep to have P1's scouts start one hex back.