Random start location on multiplayer maps

[Zakalwe]

Right now with multi-player maps you are restricted to choosing 'player 1, player 2, player 3' etc. on the pre-game screen and these correspond to fixed and known starting locations on each map.

What I would like to propose is the following change:

The ability to choose to host a game with random starting locations, so players would join the game as player 1, 2, 3 etc. on team 1, 2, 3 etc. but these would not correspond to fixed starting locations on the map.

Example 1:
Two players decide to play a game on (2)Freelands. They have trouble deciding who gets the 'first turn' so they use the random starting location option.

Example 2:
Two players decide to play a game on (4)Path of Daggers. They use the random starting location option.
On commencement of the game, the players each send scouts to the other 3 starting locations to try and find their opponent and whichever players spots their opponent first (even better if their scout is not seen) gains a minor advantage.

I will unabashedly state that my inspiration for this idea is the game-play mechanics of Starcraft which is excellent for multi-player.

I know there are lots of maps where having random would mess things up. This can often be the case in mandatory 'use map settings' maps. There are also maps like 'Auction X' where specific locations are tied with starting gold etc. I think that we can probably rely on common sense preventing players from running afoul of problems although later on it's quite possible to add better solutions.

[Aethaeryn]

I think maybe "random player number" would be better than "random starting location" because sometimes settings or WML is dependent on a player starting at a certain spot. I have observed that some maps (free-for-alls; the more players the more obvious) have a slight p1 advantage that can never be balanced for because, no matter what p1 moves first and that these maps would be best with a random order.

[Caphriel]

Some way of randomizing the players would be good, but random start locations would be bad; it wouldn't work in team games.

[Zakalwe]

Hi Aethaeryn,

Thank you, I agree you are correct that random player number is better than random starting location.

Will that be a problem vis-a-vis still allowing players to choose which teams they are on? How would you suggest making it possible to either be randomly assigned a team in a team game OR choosing a team but not the player number?

[Soliton]

Can already be done: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26691

[Aethaeryn]

Can already be done: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26691

I believe the issue then is implementing this (CABD) code into mainline and adding it as a checkbox option.

[grrr]

Can already be done: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26691

I believe the issue then is implementing this (CABD) code into mainline and adding it as a checkbox option.

If only this was as easy as it reads ... AFAIK add-ons cannot control the client's UI outside of a game. Which is a pity since WML is already used when the client talks to the MP server (read: outside of a game).

So yeah, adding the checkbox is C++/SDL, the random start location is what can already be done in pure WML. It'd be so much easier if there was a mechanism for add-ons to hook directly into the create game dialog, beyond the possibilites of controlling the default game settings. That is, to directly control the display and access of (custom) game settings.

Spoiler:

Just a rough outline of what I had in mind:

Code: Select all

[create_game]
    [some_simple_layout_container]
        label=_"basic settings"
        [turn_bonus_slider/]
        [fog_checkbox/]
    [/some_simple_layout_container]

    [some_other_simple_layout_container]
        label=_"advanced settings"
        [my_custom_checkbox_defined_elsewhere/]
    [/some_other_simple_layout_container]
[/create-game]

[create_game_custom_ui_elements]
    [button_group]
        id=my_custom_checkbox_defined_elsewhere   
        [checkbox]
            id=my_random_start_location_variable_name
            label=_ "random start location"
            active=false
        [/checkbox]
    [/button_group]
[/create_game_custom_ui_elements]

and so on, together with a simple layout algorithm to stuff everything into the UI (perhaps with scrolling or even grouping by tabs, if too many options exist). The same egine behind this could be re-used to create proper in-game dialogs.

[Aethaeryn]

If only this was as easy as it reads ... AFAIK add-ons cannot control the client's UI outside of a game. Which is a pity since WML is already used when the client talks to the MP server (read: outside of a game).

So yeah, adding the checkbox is C++/SDL, the random start location is what can already be done in pure WML. It'd be so much easier if there was a mechanism for add-ons to hook directly into the create game dialog, beyond the possibilites of controlling the default game settings. That is, to directly control the display and access of (custom) game settings.

Spoiler:

Just a rough outline of what I had in mind:

Code: Select all

[create_game]
    [some_simple_layout_container]
        label=_"basic settings"
        [turn_bonus_slider/]
        [fog_checkbox/]
    [/some_simple_layout_container]

    [some_other_simple_layout_container]
        label=_"advanced settings"
        [my_custom_checkbox_defined_elsewhere/]
    [/some_other_simple_layout_container]
[/create-game]

[create_game_custom_ui_elements]
    [button_group]
        id=my_custom_checkbox_defined_elsewhere   
        [checkbox]
            id=my_random_start_location_variable_name
            label=_ "random start location"
            active=false
        [/checkbox]
    [/button_group]
[/create_game_custom_ui_elements]

and so on, together with a simple layout algorithm to stuff everything into the UI (perhaps with scrolling or even grouping by tabs, if too many options exist). The same egine behind this could be re-used to create proper in-game dialogs.

That's a good idea. This way two things are possible: (1) add-ons can have different options, accessible before the game starts... perhaps even scenario/campaign difficulty; (2) OAB will no longer kill a potentially good idea because someone could create an add-on which only adds options to mainline maps, thus being a test-of-concept to see if the option is truly bad.