Ghosts, Wraiths, and Shadows.

[Elvish_Pillager]

The Ghost is a scout unit with almost equal melee and ranged attacks.
The Wraith is a scout unit with powerful draining melee and very low ranged attacks for its level.
The Shadow is a scout unit with slightly more powerful melee, no drain, and no ranged attack whatsoever.

1) Why would anyone choose a Shadow over a Wraith? The wraith is almost completely better, and levels up into a real powerhouse. They don't even have a different damage type.

2) Why is there no ghost upgrade with a powerful ranged attack? It seems odd for a mixed-fighter-scout to level into a melee one.

3) 7-4 seems powerful for a Draining attack, especially on a level-up of a unit with a 4-3 attack. It's more than twice as powerful. On the other hand, the Shadow's melee is almost three times as powerful.

Should the Wraith's and Shadow's attacks be reduced?

[Neoriceisgood]

The shadow's advantage is supposedly his nightstalk skill, but I have never found an occasion to use this yet, not to mention that ghosts are practicaly the most mobile units in the game; how big is a chance for enemies to catch them in fog of war?
Now perhaps the sudden rise of power for ghosts isn't that bad, as they're not that easy to level and take a helload of gold, but the shadow is severely underpowered compared to that god-like wraith, and indeed it would be funny to see a strong ranged line aswell.

[Elvish_Pillager]

but the shadow is severely underpowered compared to that god-like wraith, and indeed it would be funny to see a strong ranged line aswell.

Maybe the Shadow should be given a ranged attack? Like 6-4? Then we would solve the ranged attack problem and the shadow weakness problem at once... But what would the attack be called? Just Wail?

[Neoriceisgood]

let's call it snail and give it slow
But perhaps the shade could also be better in other things, like even better against physic attacks in resistance, or 60% defence in terrain that can cast shadows

[Elvish_Pillager]

60% defence in terrain that can cast shadows

Let's just give the Shadow 70% defense in every terrain, cause shadows are so hard to hit... How's that?

[Mutxiko]

60% defence in terrain that can cast shadows

Let's just give the Shadow 70% defense in every terrain, cause shadows are so hard to hit... How's that?

IMO this is a good, non unbalancing way to solve the weakness problem...

[quartex]

It would make shadows very hard to hit. I suppose if they had a weak attack it would make them a great scouting unit: invisible at night, fast and a pain to kill.

But isn't 70% in every terrain a bit too powerful? I'd prefer 60%

[Elvish_Pillager]

But isn't 70% in every terrain a bit too powerful? I'd prefer 60%

Yes, I thought it might be... 60% is ok too.

[Sangel]

I agree with the proposed change for the Shadow. It improves the "elusive" versus "aggressive" contrast which supposedly exists between the Shadow and Wraith. The Shadow is also rather lacklustre as a unit right now.

And if it proves unbalancing, we can always remove it again, right?

[quartex]

I agree with the proposed change for the Shadow. It improves the "elusive" versus "aggressive" contrast which supposedly exists between the Shadow and Wraith. The Shadow is also rather lacklustre as a unit right now.

And if it proves unbalancing, we can always remove it again, right?

Gee, all we need to do now is get a dev to agree with us and make the change.

[Bander]

perhaps nightstalk should work at dusk too, because being invisable 1/3 of the time isn't that great, but 1/2 the time would be pretty cool. Then they'd sneak in, kill a unit, evade some attacks and disappear into the shadows

[Elvish_Pillager]

perhaps nightstalk should work at dusk too

There's a mechanics issue here. Right now, Nightstalk effects any time of day with negative lawful_bonus. Dusk would have to be a special case, which gets weird.

P.S.: to sneak out like that, it would need Skirmisher.

[Bander]

What a bummer, because I've never really been able to use nightstalk yet.

But about the other part, they move far enough to go around enemy limes easily, But imagine the possibilities of an elusive skirmishing nightstalk unit