New Dark Adept Branch - CONTINUED

[cyrus]

I'd rather have charching Walking-Corpses, that do double damage. They are killed most of the time during one Fight anyway, so at least, they would make some real Damage, and the Extradamage is not very Usefull to the enemy, since he would have Killed the walking Corpse anyway. I think Leadership however is more arguable than healing. Even so you could say healing is the first step of fapricating Undead. This could be interpreted as Criticisme about modern Medicine, which only cares that your heart is still pumping, even so your brain is already dead. So maybe that Necromancer branch of units should have a Red Cross on it somewhere, to hint to that implied criticism

[Bobtheripper]

ok heres an idea for that scream attack...you know how around fire things are blurry like looking from one side of a campfire to another...well the scream should have that effect..a blurry clear attack that comes from the mouth of the undead dude(dont remember his name while im typing this)...o and another thing it could be continuous from one attack to the other like instead of 3 distinctive screams it could be one continuous one that last longer depending on how many attacks it can do and the damage could be done just the same. You guys probably get what i mean......

what do yall think about the effect noone gave an opinion on it

[scott]

Alright everybody, I'm getting a little lost here. We can discuss this stuff elsewhere. As for the dark commander, the stats seem funny, but rather than complain the unit should get some playtime in 0.8.3 and people give feedback. 13-1 ranged slow? Leadership and heal? Who knows, it may work.

So, for the art, he needs the "Wesnoth shading" treatment. Then he needs a sash or belt or both to differentiate him from the L1 dark adept. I would suggest putting this whole thread in the art forum, but it will probably get lost. [We need a 'unit art development' forum and a 'terrain art development' forum, and close the 'ideas' forum for now]

[autolycus]

Leadership: the 'leadership' ability in this thread is actually the ability to coordinate undead troops more effectively than they can coordinate themselves - a 'necromancer general' ability. But it acts exactly like the 'real' leadership ability, and it doesn't make sense to create two identical abilities with different names.

Healing: the 'healing' ability in this thread is actually the ability to repair or maintain undead units, which would otherwise sort of fall apart from wear and tear. It is not entirely a mechanical art, but uses dark magic of the necromantic sort. It functions identically to the 'real' healing ability; see above.

[Mutxiko]

I agree with you for this, Autolycus.

My opinion about the new completely different ideas ( poison aura... ) is that it may fit well in a story, but not in gameplay : the Dark Commander would have to get next to ennemies in order to be useful, which is the opposite of the original concept ( a leading unit that avoids direct contact ).

Hmmm... Tigrezno, the Fire is one of the two anti-Undead magic, with Holy, so giving fire-magic to Undead would be nonsense. Period.
Now, Cyrus, the Undead are NOT SELFISH : they obey the orders of Evil or of their direct thinking captains. Healing would be the same in gameplay, but would mean something different : the Dark Captain/Dark Commander focuses on renewing the dark energies among the Undead ranks.
Scott, I feel sorry to say this but don't dream of getting this unit included in 0.8.3 : I started the original thread TWO MONTHS AGO, and I never managed to get the core developers's attention. Now that the topic has got more active, I think we can reasonnably expect a definitive answer in the next two months.

[autolycus]

Poison Aura: to me this is a bit like the terror of the Nazgul captain in LotR - something that makes enemies feel weak and fearful (in game terms, worsens their performance). It doesn't work as well for a necromancer as it does for a solo avenger-type unit on the front line. And in Wesnoth, this kind of thing would belong to a unique unit, I think. So a unit with this would be a scenario-specific unit more than a general-use one.

Fire Magic: I think that a necromancer would have a horror of such magic - dark adepts would (my opinion) shun light and fire as the opposite of the dark and cold that they stand for. It's not beyond their intellectual capacity, but it is psychologically not their cup of tea...

[Circon]

Leadership: the 'leadership' ability in this thread is actually the ability to coordinate undead troops more effectively than they can coordinate themselves - a 'necromancer general' ability. But it acts exactly like the 'real' leadership ability, and it doesn't make sense to create two identical abilities with different names.

Healing: the 'healing' ability in this thread is actually the ability to repair or maintain undead units, which would otherwise sort of fall apart from wear and tear. It is not entirely a mechanical art, but uses dark magic of the necromantic sort. It functions identically to the 'real' healing ability; see above.

What he said.
Skeletons just raised will rush in as a mindless horde.
Skeletons with a necromancer commanding *them specifically* will target more intelligently.

Skeletons raised will experience wear and tear on bones, eventually crumbling.
Skeletons with the raiser next to them will be bound together more powerfully and have whatever arcane force binds their bones together replenished more frequently.

Happy now?


Cmon, we need this unit branch approved! Undead need more branching units! (Ghost is only one)

[J-ser]

I say we should put this topic in the devs forum. I would help test out this unit and the devs might give us this unit because of how many people want it. I hope the devs will see this soon and it might get in to 8.4 or even 8.3 I suggest you post the death knight pictures on here so we can get a good idea of the whole line without switching forums.

[Circon]

I suggest you post the death knight pictures on here so we can get a good idea of the whole line without switching forums.

Why post the death knight here????
That's a different unit line.

[Mutxiko]

The Death Knight, at least now, is not a support-unit but a MELEE FIGHTING UNIT WITH LEADERSHIP, which is quite different...

[Elvish_Pillager]

My ideas for this unit:

NO slow. Too many abilities, no real point...

NO leadership. I dislike this primarily because of Vampire Bats... It's next to ridiculous to lead a Vampire Bat into draining loads of HP.

YES heals. And cures at level 3. The undead could use a healer, and it makes some sense, especially if it's a choice between healing and Plague.

YES darkens, at level 3. I think that a powerful undead-type should be able to bring darkness about it... I think this makes much more sense than the Mage of Light's ability, in fact.

People keep mentioning Tolkein... I made a image for the level 3, inspired by the Nazgul. I also made a healing/leading and melee attack frame. IMO both Dark Adept lines should become undead at level 3.

[Circon]

NO leadership. I dislike this primarily because of Vampire Bats... It's next to ridiculous to lead a Vampire Bat into draining loads of HP.

It's not "Leadership". Write a patch to change the ability name, if you like, but a vampire bat with loads of evil power flowing through it should be able to do as much damage as a blood bat.

Leadership: the 'leadership' ability in this thread is actually the ability to coordinate undead troops more effectively than they can coordinate themselves - a 'necromancer general' ability. But it acts exactly like the 'real' leadership ability, and it doesn't make sense to create two identical abilities with different names.

Healing: the 'healing' ability in this thread is actually the ability to repair or maintain undead units, which would otherwise sort of fall apart from wear and tear. It is not entirely a mechanical art, but uses dark magic of the necromantic sort. It functions identically to the 'real' healing ability; see above.

On the graphic: Too shiny sword, too much nazgul factor, not much like the previous level.

[Elvish_Pillager]

On the graphic: Too shiny sword, too much nazgul factor, not much like the previous level.

The sword is copied from the Spectre.
I know it's too much like the Nazgul, I got carried away.
I created this graphic before seeing the ones for the previous level.

[Circon]

The spectre... is a fighting unit with a drain sword as its primary attack.

[Elvish_Pillager]

NO leadership. I dislike this primarily because of Vampire Bats... It's next to ridiculous to lead a Vampire Bat into draining loads of HP.

It's not "Leadership". Write a patch to change the ability name, if you like, but a vampire bat with loads of evil power flowing through it should be able to do as much damage as a blood bat.

It's not the amount of damage it does, it's the amount of life it drains that I'm complaining about. I can understand a bat with loads of evil power doing loads of damage... but not getting loads of HP. It also adds a rather strange defensive factor to the leader, since a Bat with leader next to it is harder to kill.