Rogue Mage
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
I wish we had a "shadow" damage type, which no one has resistance to except evil things. No one would be especially vulnerable (except good spirits, maybe) but then most units resistant to most damage would not be to shadow.Elvish Pillager wrote:This is exactly why I thing he shouldn't get cold (read:evil) magic.Jetryl wrote:He's not an embodiment of all evil, he is simply a mage working outside the law and outside of formal training.
For example, the Heavy infantry would not be resistant to it.
No mages, not even the silver mage, would be resistant to it.
About the only thing that might be, is the white mage/paladin.
Cold in itself is not inherently evil, and it makes it kind of silly, in one instance. Water-borne units are resistant to the attacks of the undead. Not for a legitimate reason, such as their inherent righteousness.
I'd like to have that fixed.
-
Elvish_Pillager
- Posts: 8137
- Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
- Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
- Contact:
I think this mage should be level 2, an upgrade of the Mage, and it should be called the Black Mage.
"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"
Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
I made him a righty. This might lead to better animations.
I want to make his cloak look more ragged and to use the shading suggestion. It's basically the mage cloak with dark blue saturation added. If artistry were a spectrum, neorice is at the top end and I am at the other, so I don't feel bad wasting time on this rather than staying on task per Elezear's suggestion to do graphics the game actually needs. I like the black mage idea, but there's no real reason that such a mage would be good at melee (maybe he is in Wesnoth).
I want to make his cloak look more ragged and to use the shading suggestion. It's basically the mage cloak with dark blue saturation added. If artistry were a spectrum, neorice is at the top end and I am at the other, so I don't feel bad wasting time on this rather than staying on task per Elezear's suggestion to do graphics the game actually needs. I like the black mage idea, but there's no real reason that such a mage would be good at melee (maybe he is in Wesnoth).
Couple of things - first, I would like to extend the usual thanks for your contributions.
The swinging of the sword is a neat idea. However, the image is lacking in a certain other movement - his feet. If you bother to do that fancy animation of the sword, you may as well do a neat animation of him running as he does so, since he has to run at his enemy every time he attacks.
Second, though I DO like the color of his cloak, the shading looks a bit flat.
And his feet look a bit big, in proportion to the rest of his body.
The animation of his magical attack is best done by simply raising the staff and doing a small glow around it. Anything more requires heavy use of alpha-channeling.
The swinging of the sword is a neat idea. However, the image is lacking in a certain other movement - his feet. If you bother to do that fancy animation of the sword, you may as well do a neat animation of him running as he does so, since he has to run at his enemy every time he attacks.
Second, though I DO like the color of his cloak, the shading looks a bit flat.
And his feet look a bit big, in proportion to the rest of his body.
The animation of his magical attack is best done by simply raising the staff and doing a small glow around it. Anything more requires heavy use of alpha-channeling.
The feet came from the footpad so of course they're huge, which is kind of funny in retrospect. I will work on moving them. With regards to the magic attack, I'm guessing you're talking about the sword. As it is, in game it looks like he's overhand limp-wristing a softball. Finally, I am baffled on shading. I tried to copy the style on the mage's cloak with dodge and burn but you see the results. Thanks for the help because I'll definitely try to improve this guy. I'm not too worried about it because unless there's an outlaw campaign he won't be seeing too much action except for my computer (but he's fun to play).Jetryl wrote:Couple of things - first, I would like to extend the usual thanks for your contributions.
The swinging of the sword is a neat idea. However, the image is lacking in a certain other movement - his feet. If you bother to do that fancy animation of the sword, you may as well do a neat animation of him running as he does so, since he has to run at his enemy every time he attacks.
Second, though I DO like the color of his cloak, the shading looks a bit flat.
And his feet look a bit big, in proportion to the rest of his body.
The animation of his magical attack is best done by simply raising the staff and doing a small glow around it. Anything more requires heavy use of alpha-channeling.
I'm a dumbass, sometimes... UH, I meant hand, not staff. Oopsie.
What I meant is, the glowing cyan colored stuff should only extend a few pixels from his hand. "But it's supposed to look all translucent and glowy..."
That it is, chap, but that happens to be what halos are for.
Actually, if he is doing cold damage, copy in the "flare" from the lich's staff, and set his unit.cfg file to use the dark-missile projectile. He probably won't need a halo, for such an attack.
Good luck.
What I meant is, the glowing cyan colored stuff should only extend a few pixels from his hand. "But it's supposed to look all translucent and glowy..."
That it is, chap, but that happens to be what halos are for.
Actually, if he is doing cold damage, copy in the "flare" from the lich's staff, and set his unit.cfg file to use the dark-missile projectile. He probably won't need a halo, for such an attack.
Good luck.
I serously welcome having a new outlaw Unit. But I would like the rougue Mage not to be thrown out of mage school because he practiced forbidden dark magic, I'd rather have him thrown out, for being incapable in accepting strict formal houserules. He can still be talented, still hate or fear dark Magic, but still have been thrown out. Since he had no chance to fully develop his Magic abilities, it is natural, he learned to defend himself with the sword as well.
So far so good. But I would like him to be more different. He should have shapeshifter ability. This would allow him to apear to enemies as whatever outlaw he wants. Thisway he could surprise enemy units. In mases they can completly hide the players strategy. But as this probably gets shot down as not being compatible with kiss. Lets think of some other way of seperating him more from other units.
I would like to have an very cheap magian for the outlaws. He should have Backstap for his Magic Range Attack.
When he leveled up to level 2 he should gain fog of war aura, hiding all units that are adjacent to him, unless an enemy unit stands next to them.
If even that would be to complecated at least give him the former proposed darkening ability. And make almost all outlaws have nightstalk ability, instead of elusive foot. So this would not have the need to implement any new ability, it would make it nesesary to rebalance many outlaws.
Even if you don't like any of the proposed, you might understand what I try to acomplish. I want the rougue Mage to have an abbility that seperates him from other mages very much, and does it in a way that feels sneeky. If you just give him both melee and magic range, it feels like he could be the first or second Level of the elvish lord.
I'd love to see the Rougue Mage as suporting unit, to help hide your strategie. Since that is what should be the key to play successfully the outlaws.
The traits of the Units should encourage the player to adopt their strategie.
I would even consider giving him, teleportation like the silvermage has right from the start, but give him only 2 Levels. Since he lacks education, he cannot develop up a certain point.
So if you dislike any proposal, I would appreciate if you would contribute different ideas to acomplish this goal.
You should only have a chance to win with the outlaws, if you can use the element of surprise.
So far so good. But I would like him to be more different. He should have shapeshifter ability. This would allow him to apear to enemies as whatever outlaw he wants. Thisway he could surprise enemy units. In mases they can completly hide the players strategy. But as this probably gets shot down as not being compatible with kiss. Lets think of some other way of seperating him more from other units.
I would like to have an very cheap magian for the outlaws. He should have Backstap for his Magic Range Attack.
When he leveled up to level 2 he should gain fog of war aura, hiding all units that are adjacent to him, unless an enemy unit stands next to them.
If even that would be to complecated at least give him the former proposed darkening ability. And make almost all outlaws have nightstalk ability, instead of elusive foot. So this would not have the need to implement any new ability, it would make it nesesary to rebalance many outlaws.
Even if you don't like any of the proposed, you might understand what I try to acomplish. I want the rougue Mage to have an abbility that seperates him from other mages very much, and does it in a way that feels sneeky. If you just give him both melee and magic range, it feels like he could be the first or second Level of the elvish lord.
I'd love to see the Rougue Mage as suporting unit, to help hide your strategie. Since that is what should be the key to play successfully the outlaws.
The traits of the Units should encourage the player to adopt their strategie.
I would even consider giving him, teleportation like the silvermage has right from the start, but give him only 2 Levels. Since he lacks education, he cannot develop up a certain point.
So if you dislike any proposal, I would appreciate if you would contribute different ideas to acomplish this goal.
You should only have a chance to win with the outlaws, if you can use the element of surprise.
hmm most of the power you sugest are VERY powerfull, FOW aura, teleport, shapeshifting should only givin to lvl3-4 units, and probably not at all.
look at teleport, on ly the sivermage has it, and that's what the unit does. this is a very powerfull power and is only given as a specialisation...
no, I don't think the rogue mage needs more power. It's already going to be a unit with both a good melee and a magical ranged attack (magical as in 70% tohit) trust me, this will be a powerfull lvl1 unit. Boost it's attack at lvl 1 and only give him a power at lvl3
the idea of backstab on the magical attack was a good one... but last time I looked attacks could only have one ability....
look at teleport, on ly the sivermage has it, and that's what the unit does. this is a very powerfull power and is only given as a specialisation...
no, I don't think the rogue mage needs more power. It's already going to be a unit with both a good melee and a magical ranged attack (magical as in 70% tohit) trust me, this will be a powerfull lvl1 unit. Boost it's attack at lvl 1 and only give him a power at lvl3
the idea of backstab on the magical attack was a good one... but last time I looked attacks could only have one ability....
But the shaman has a magic rnage entangle Attack. That are two abilities as well!
And if we make him an average mage, lets Have him at least to have a magic Melee attack to ste him apart from all the other mages.
But I would rather diminish his offensiv skills, and instead make him an Suporting unit, which encourages to use a strategie which you would expect of outlaws. And outlaws would never confront enemies in open Battle. I want to make shure that if you atempt to use your units in open Battle you will loose. But to make up for that weakness support stealthiness by units like the rougue mage.
I think I have a pretty good envision how outlaws should evolve.
I don't actually care that much how we reach this vision, but I definatly don't think there is need for another faction, that does prevail in open battle. We have Loyalists we have Rebels we have undead, and we have northeners. They all are pretty good in open battle. We should have a faction that supports guerilia tactics. This would add to diversity. And the Outlaws could just fill that gap. No other faction I can think of would fill it as well. And besides, how powerfull is a Level one unit if it has teleportation, but is not a decent fighting unit. Since I can't emagin Outlaws breaking the Lines of Level 3 Guardists, with white Mages keeping them in shape, getting mages behind the lines, just would allow for thives in the front battle to use backstapping. It should be a special power of the Outlaws to penetrade enemy lines. They need to be able to do this, because they mostly have only two Levels, and won't be able to kill Level three Heavy Infantrist, supported by white mages. You would still loose many outlaws in the attempt, but it would not be totally hopeless, if you can outmanuver them. And besides, having the rougue Mage being able to teleport, would still be no full replacement for the lack of a scouting unit. And I don't want them to have a Scouting unit, instead, because, that would make them less different to other factions.
And if we make him an average mage, lets Have him at least to have a magic Melee attack to ste him apart from all the other mages.
But I would rather diminish his offensiv skills, and instead make him an Suporting unit, which encourages to use a strategie which you would expect of outlaws. And outlaws would never confront enemies in open Battle. I want to make shure that if you atempt to use your units in open Battle you will loose. But to make up for that weakness support stealthiness by units like the rougue mage.
I think I have a pretty good envision how outlaws should evolve.
I don't actually care that much how we reach this vision, but I definatly don't think there is need for another faction, that does prevail in open battle. We have Loyalists we have Rebels we have undead, and we have northeners. They all are pretty good in open battle. We should have a faction that supports guerilia tactics. This would add to diversity. And the Outlaws could just fill that gap. No other faction I can think of would fill it as well. And besides, how powerfull is a Level one unit if it has teleportation, but is not a decent fighting unit. Since I can't emagin Outlaws breaking the Lines of Level 3 Guardists, with white Mages keeping them in shape, getting mages behind the lines, just would allow for thives in the front battle to use backstapping. It should be a special power of the Outlaws to penetrade enemy lines. They need to be able to do this, because they mostly have only two Levels, and won't be able to kill Level three Heavy Infantrist, supported by white mages. You would still loose many outlaws in the attempt, but it would not be totally hopeless, if you can outmanuver them. And besides, having the rougue Mage being able to teleport, would still be no full replacement for the lack of a scouting unit. And I don't want them to have a Scouting unit, instead, because, that would make them less different to other factions.