Portrait sketches

[thespaceinvader]

Gobbo looks good =) Maybe the front of his helm is a little too...flat, though - it looks like a normal iron cap helm that's been bashed hard against a flat surface... Though that might be the intention, of course. Maybe some rust would help too - his gear is really clean and shiny at the moment.

[Girgistian]

Thanks, and aye, it was the intention, though very badly planned... that's up for a redraw.
As for the general cleanness, it will be taken care of once the rest of the bugger's been dealt with.

And after I've finished the polishing, all the messy spots and general filthiness shall be added.

*Ahem*.

[thespaceinvader]

O oops, my bad =)

[Skizzaltix]

I agree with TSI--I like the idea of the bashed helmet, but it looks a little strange right now
I love the wolf's head, though
Also, they way the belt hangs down feels a little odd to me--Shouldn't it be hanging more-or-less straight down after the point where it's tucked under itself?
Anyway, great job, as always!

[kitty]

The new shading approach looks much better! Great improvement
Especially his right arm/shoulder area work really well - that's the niveau we need for the overall pic!

If you want to make your figure "pop" even more, I suggest moving your lightsource a tad to the left so that you don't have one side of the figure completely in the shadow and one completely in the light like now but instead have a big shadow at one side and a little one at the other. This way things will look more 3d-ish.
What doesn't work that well is the shadow cast by his arm. Wether take a pic of yourself within a similar light situation for reference or drop the castshadow altogether - a missing one will look less strange than a wrong one.

Anatomically i still don't get how his left arm works - is it strangely foreshortened? Do we see the inside or the side of it? And his eyes aren't symmetrical.


The skincolour. Wesnothian orcs don't have dark skin. They have a wide range of different skin colours, lighter and darker than the average caucasian, but they are not that dark and for sure the generic portrait won't feature such a specimen.
We won't follow the evil mindset of black skinned orcs started by Tolkien. We won't equal dark with evil. No dark hunched orcs against the shiny caucasian loyalists.

Orcs are generally very hairy, and have skin ranging in color from pale to dark. I'd prefer for a good share of the portraits to be 'white', simply to avoid the obvious implied allegory with skin color.

I could imagine taking some inspiration from an eskimo kind of skintype, because of the northeners connotation of our orcs. But don't feel bound to that, it's just a suggestion.

[Girgistian]

Alright, thanks I would have given up and let LordBob work his magic if this hadn't been better than the previous attempts.
I'm not sure if I'm up for moving the main light source though - what if I just added a smaller one about 30-40 degrees left from the 'viewer'?
As for the arm shadow, I'll try a few reworks, and if they really don't work, I'll just drop it. Now that I look it really closely, I suddenly realize his left arm suggests his shoulder is lower than it should be, and the shading doesn't quite work - I'll see if I can fix it, and maybe even try to clear it out with a reference pic.

And the skin... Hmm...
Hmm hmm!
It's actually supposed to be something similar to the tan level of some siberian tribes. If it really is too dark though, I can lighten it up.
And btw, as a thought, if the orcs are supposed to have a wide variety of skin colours, doesn't LordBob's grunt already make it clear that they can be pretty caucasian as well?

If you're sure about the required fixes, I can just try to work the way you suggested as well. Thanks.

[kitty]

I'm not sure if I'm up for moving the main light source though - what if I just added a smaller one about 30-40 degrees left from the 'viewer'?

Actually i was suggesting exactly the opposite. Your proposal would put more light on the left side of the igure (from the viewer's PoV). I was talking about less light on the other side. Having (differently sized) shadows on both sides will make more of a 3d impression.

and maybe even try to clear it out with a reference pic.

Don't be too proud to use ref! You do not no how the real thing looks like, as long as you haven't studied tons of life and ref for years you will only make guesses based on the (most likely) wrong pictures in your head. You don't need an exact ref, but something similar from where you can start estimating will teach you much more than wild gut based guessing. Go and get a ref!

It's actually supposed to be something similar to the tan level of some siberiantribes. If it really is too dark though, I can lighten it up.

The siberian tribes pic you linked to is a great base! Something like that would be great! But what you have right now is much more yellow and misses at least one lighter shade. your skincolours go uniformly from yellowish to a bit more reddish while the ones of the guy in your pic start in the reddish range progress to yellow (in the midtones) and back to reddish in the darks. Some colour picking fun:

skin.png (24.22 KiB) Viewed 5631 times

And btw, as a thought, if the orcs are supposed to have a wide variety of skin colours, doesn't LordBob's grunt already make it clear that they can be pretty caucasian as well?

Just read the citation by Jetryl i quoted. A individual character portrait can be quite dark but not the generic one. Period.

[Sangel]

The latest portrait feels like it has "filled out", Girgistian. Your work on rough 3D volumes is definitely paying dividends. I've been rooting for your progress on shading ever since you showed up flashing awesome sketchwork, and it looks like you're just about there. I realise you've put a lot of work into improving, which only makes the improvements all the more impressive - Jetryl gives the "time and hard work will get you there" speech quite often, but it's the rare artist who accepts the challenge and proves the truism.

On the skin tones - your Goblin does look darker than your Siberian reference, and I can see why the Devs want to avoid the clichéd "dark skin tones = evil" trope that plagues many fantasy settings. However, kitty's done her usual excellent job at identifying the issue and providing a technical critique useful for making improvements, so my voice is kinda redundant.

Keep up the good work!

[Jetrel]

and maybe even try to clear it out with a reference pic.

Don't be too proud to use ref! You do not no how the real thing looks like, as long as you haven't studied tons of life and ref for years you will only make guesses based on the (most likely) wrong pictures in your head. You don't need an exact ref, but something similar from where you can start estimating will teach you much more than wild gut based guessing. Go and get a ref!

Indeed. The only reason not to use a reference is speed, and that's when you're "so good that you know you're more or less doing it right". It's a good exercise to try doing drawings now and then (especially, say, lots of quick gesture sketches or studies*), without reference, but it's basically a given, even at really, really high skill levels, that doing a drawing without reference is setting yourself up for a mistake.

It's like writing a whole bunch of code and expecting to have no bugs in it, whatsoever; ludicrous, really.



* sometimes being too formal about doing everything right can be a major discouragement to casual drawing. I find myself having a lot of problems with that, and find myself getting lapped sometimes by carefree people who just draw at the drop of a hat (and thus draw a lot more than me). So maybe it's necessary to forgo this for a lot of casual stuff - you have to keep drawing *fun*, in general. This is another problem you'll want to avoid, but it's all relative. Suffice it to say, though, reference is your friend.

[Girgistian]

True. After having a few days off of wesnoth related stuff I've actually started casual drawing again, and found out that I learn a lot more through that because there's more room for experimentation, and basically no limits at all. The idea of contintuing/redoing my current work still feels a little revolting, so I'll just stick to my general uselessness for now.

By the way, I took a photo of myself standing in a similar position to the goblin, and the arm's shadow covered only a very small part of the torso - the goblin's problem's currently with the pose. I really don't feel up for a complete recolouring, so either I suggest a new sketch, LordBob draw's from the current one if he wants to, or I force myself to the colouring process. Someday.

[Girgistian]

Sorry to interrupt skizzalix's work, but with the thread being labeled 'portrait sketches' and all that, I'll post a(nother) sketch for the orcish assassin, now that the orc anatomy has been somewhat decided. My best one so far, I might add.

As for skizz's current piece of work, to my preference the tail still seems a bit too thick to fit the unit in the sense that it doesn't give out a very nimble feeling. The shading style also reminds me a lot of a turtles magazine I read back when I was a little girgistianling - I'm not sure if it's okay or not, but to me it doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the wesnoth portrait-style. I thank you for trying out the sketch though, it's nice to see them getting used. The arm positions you currently propose are very stiff and dynamic. I think the buckler might even work with vaguely the same stance as he had in the original sketch, but it's up to you obviously (and by the way, it's not even an unnatural pose - I'd take a reference photo were I not such an introvert). 'Tis not to discourage you, I merely offer critique. You're doing far better job than many others that have attempted portraiture around here.

EDIT: yeah, I could attach the sketch too

[Rocket Slug]

Really nice! My only issue is that his legs seem pretty thick. It gives him the impression that he's much stouter than he is, especially when you look at how thick his arms are. Otherwise, great work! I always love seeing your sketches.

[Thrawn]

Really nice! My only issue is that his legs seem pretty thick. It gives him the impression that he's much stouter than he is, especially when you look at how thick his arms are. Otherwise, great work! I always love seeing your sketches.

To me, the legs make him look stumpy, which is how I imagine goblins, so meh--personal preference I guess. I just hope he's not chewing the poisoned dagger =P

[thespaceinvader]

Well, the assassin and bowman are about halfway to goblins anyway, and the legs won't be included in the crop. i think this looks great =D

[Sgt. Groovy]

The detail is good, but the pose makes him look dumb and clumsy. I had always imagined the assassins are from the more nimble and cunning end of the orcish spectrum, being able to stalk their prey.