Outlaws - Finished!

[Jetrel]

I agree with Turin--Hair that's greasy won't really puff out like that, and I wouldn't think thieves would be too big on the shampoo
Anyway, great work!

For someone with curly hair, it will poof out no matter how greasy it gets; in fact, afro-sheen is basically straight grease put into hair, and I doubt the users would use it if it damped down the 'fro.

Besides the point, most of my sister's friends are emo/punk/whatever greaseballs who never wash their hair, and a good half of them have hair that poofs out in spite of it.

[Eternal]

Somehow the male thief reminds me of this character.



But that aside, in my opinion the hair, the face and what he's wearing is all good as they are. Change very little, or nothing, if possible.

[kitty]

updated version of the thief/rogue. i took some of the advice and skipped other


tsi hmm, actually i'm fairly certain concerning the head size. i plan to do portraits fitting several levels first and when i have done all of the outlaws and still have motivation left add more seperate pics.
girgistian ha, the typical romantical thief - i thought of him, but he just doesn't fit the sprites... and you were right about the belts, he got a new one.
turuk i don't want him to be particularly threatening - he is the generic unit portrait and has to be usable for all kinds of dialogue. i think his gesture can be interpreted as pointing at something as well as fidgeting with the knife. and i tried a double edged dagger and just didn't like it, sorry no better reason.
Simon Mithdon't worry i don't plan scars for all outlaws. but these two are just the generic male and female version of the same unit and that's why i want them to share as many little things as possible. just like the generic wizard's share the same haircolour.
lordbob thanks for pointing the anatomical problems out! i hope they are fixed now
Neoskel I'm not terrible informed about the differences between throwing and stabbing knives, but i'm pretty sure that he has a knife in his hand and yeah if i do a seperate l1 portrait for him, the female version will get one too, of course.
turin the gladiator guy was awesome! but seriously i blame your problem with the hair on its lack of shading...
Skizzaltix that's silly, i won't seriously discuss the greasiness of his hair
groovy i changed the dagger to a sheathed one on your suggestion. but the rest of your reasoning would be valid for a character portrait but not for the generic one. a character portrait has to show the individual characteristics, tell us something about him with all the details. but what we have here is the generic representation of the sprite - once the female version and once the male one. have you looked up how similar the sprites are? if you want to argue that all units ouside the explicit military should look individual and non unified you can start by doing tons of versions for all sprites in mainline they are basically the same person just male and female: they share the haircolour, the eyecolour, the vest and so on.
JW thanks
doofus i changed some things about his arm, i think it works now.
orcish shyde thank you
eternal where is that guy from?!

argh! too many comments to comment on! - imagine how many portraits i could have done in the time writing this!

[thespaceinvader]

Throwing knife http://www.apexresourcegroup.com/images ... 65BK-2.jpg http://www.axeman.us/axeman/throwing_knife_2.jpg

Daggers http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image ... ords-6.jpg

Kitchen knives http://www.premiercutlery.co.uk/kitchen ... knives.jpg

The primary differences are the single edge on the blade, and the fact that it's asymmetric - these makes the one in your image look exactly like a kitchen knife, and not really like a stabbing dagger or a throwing knife. Making it symmetrical/double bladed, and perhaps giving it a slightly larger blade, would alleviate that impression =)

Otherwise, lookign great =)

[Neoskel]

I like the fact that you gave him stiletto daggers. Can't get much more stabby than that. Though they seem to be missing hilts and thus look like silver stakes or something.

[thespaceinvader]

They have hilts, they just don't have crossguards =P The hilt is the bit you hold, y'know. Such weapons are not unheard of - many japanese tantos have next to no crossguard.

[Sgt. Groovy]

but what we have here is the generic representation of the sprite - once the female version and once the male one. have you looked up how similar the sprites are?

I don't see this as a valid argument, because the function of the sprites and the portraits (both the "generic" and "character" ones) is completely different, the sprites serve a technical and the portraits a narrative function. The sprites are symbolic representations of the units on the map, and for them the instant recognisability is paramount. That's why for sprites the differently sexed versions must be as alike as possible. But the portraits serve to flesh out the stories around the battles and to represent the units "in real life." As quite a lot of deviation from the sprites is tolerated already, I don't see why the versions of the same unit couldn't deviate from each other too. I for the one would see lot or artistic challenge in trying to make the versions as different as possible, and yet be read as "same" unit in viewer's mind, to give them a different "identity," yet maintaining the same "function."

But anyway, the thief looks pretty good.

[JW]

I don't see why the versions of the same unit couldn't deviate from each other too.

--->

if you want to argue that all units ouside the explicit military should look individual and non unified you can start by doing tons of versions for all sprites in mainline

It's not my place to be making a comment about your critiquing style (Groovy), but since you're not getting the not-so-subtle hints, you should probably stop arguing about this.

[Eternal]

I LOVE the hair. The knife he's holding just needs a bit more detail. Thespaceinvader's links have magnificent material for that.

where is that guy from?!

He's Hugo from Street Fighter 3rd Strike. He's not exactly a dextrous thief though. His hair and face are just astonishingly similar to your young rogue's.

[tsr]

small nitpick on male thief: could we have a vertical scar on his right lower cheek instead of one more horizontal from his lip?

/tsr

[Skizzaltix]

Yeah, no worries, as Jetryl just kindly pointed out I was merely making a fool of myself by making assumptions about the thief's (Very curly) hair based on my experience with my own (Nearly straight) hair, sorry about that

Re: knives: Although kunai were often used for throwing, they were mostly for stabbing... When used as a weapon at all (They're actually a kind of trowel ). Because they're not sharpened, their use when thrown is rather limited. Moot point, though, obviously.
On a side note: NARUTO? What is the world coming to... Though I'll admit that the image is perfectly accurate given the wide variety of shapes in which these tools were made.

Back on-topic: Great job! Though, it occurs to me that the bracers there might be something of an impediment if worn that loosely
Maybe its just me?

[scienceguy8]

The primary differences are the single edge on the blade, and the fact that it's asymmetric - these makes the one in your image look exactly like a kitchen knife, and not really like a stabbing dagger or a throwing knife. Making it symmetrical/double bladed, and perhaps giving it a slightly larger blade, would alleviate that impression =)

Alternatively, you can add a false edge. This is a feature found on the upper side of a single edge blade toward the the knife's point. It's kind of hard to explain in words, so I hope the picture is sufficient. Just as the name implies, the false edge is not actually sharp, but does come to a rough edge that can do some sufficient tearing and stabbing damage. The only problem is that false edges did not become prominent on knives until the mid 1800's, well after the time period Wesnoth's technology and wardrobe style is based on.
Modern day folding lock-back knife with false edge.
Hunting knife modeled after the famous Bowie knife design.

[Iris]

Three comment pages...

I guess I'm the only one who thinks of Edward Scissorhands when seeing this portrait then.

[faring]

The primary differences are the single edge on the blade, and the fact that it's asymmetric - these makes the one in your image look exactly like a kitchen knife

I have to say it does look very much like my paring knife but maybe I'm just nitpicking, the rest of it is awesome

[LordBob]

lordbob thanks for pointing the anatomical problems out! i hope they are fixed now

To be honest, I'm still not convinced by his right hand. Looking in the mirror, I think it's mostly a matter of scale: men's hips being rather thin, his hand ought to engulf the entire hip, with longer fingers covering the first dagger. In addition, with such an angle, we would be able to see his thumb reaching behind.

I attach a very quick paintover. Please forgive the sketchy bits, it is only meant for scale purposes.