A first attempt

[West]

is the rule that instruments farther back should have a lot of reverb, and that instruments in the front should have less?

In a word -- yes.

Also, sorry about not commenting on your piece sooner, but I've been busy with RL. I will have more free time in december (hey, that's tomorrow!) so expect some feedback shortly.

[IoN]

Coincidentally, I just read about your beta SSO on this forum, West - would you mind PMing me a copy for use in my piece? I really can't afford anything fancy like East/West, unfortunately.

[West]

Coincidentally, I just read about your beta SSO on this forum, West - would you mind PMing me a copy for use in my piece? I really can't afford anything fancy like East/West, unfortunately.

PM sent.

[West]

As has been mentioned, the biggest problem with your piece is the samples. Is that GPO? Quite frankly, it sounds terrible. In fact, I'm half suspecting you have made some boo boo during mixdown like... I dunno, mixed it down to 11kHz or something? The samples are like tracker quality. And I've heard GPO before and normally it doesn't sound *that* bad even if I'm not a fan of that particular library. You think you could check your mixdown settings and see if something looks amiss?

Musically I think this sounds quite nice, though maybe not mainline-nice at this point. Your sense of melody is very good. I can't really get more in-depth than that before I get a version with better quality I'm afraid, it's not easy to make out any details ATM.

[IoN]

Oh, right, I was working on this. Um, yeah, I can't seem to get West's samples to work (something strange with instrument ranges going on; hopefully I'll figure it out eventually), but I did manage to find the mistake in the GPO samples I was using; I corrected it. I also added a bit of reverb and made a few tweaks to the score itself.

New version (streamed at higher quality than the others): http://h1.ripway.com/alawemusic/silver8.mp3

[IoN]

Bump? I'd really like feedback on this version while I work on the drake theme.

[doofus-01]

IoN,

I'm not qualified to give a critique, but I can bump this up in the "View active topics" queue. It sounds nice, maybe you'll get more feedback once the holidays are over.

[IoN]

Thanks!

I'd really like some feedback on the latest version, though; I think the string samples sound much better now (though I'll have to adjust a bit to make them sound better).

[West]

I'd really like some feedback on the latest version, though; I think the string samples sound much better now (though I'll have to adjust a bit to make them sound better).

If you haven't noticed, it's christmas.

I'll get to it as soon as I have time. I would also appreciate if other Lords of Music would pop in and give feedback. *hint*

[Rain]

Very subtle, West. Just take a mallet and bash me over the head with it. (my attention span seems to shorten on holidays)

Anyways, IoN... I've heard the piece and have been waiting until I had sufficient time to comment on the direction that it's going. I think it's getting better but the sound of the instrumentation still seems a bit threadbare. I'll have to echo the sentiments of the samples holding the music back as others have mentioned but the music is there, imo.
I think the general style of the music would fit in well with the other pieces written for Wesnoth so far, especially West's contributions because there is something kind of ... renaissance-y about it.

I yearn for more intricate instrumentation, mainly with a woodwind combo (such as 2 flutes and 2 oboes) to really carry that renaissance feeling a bit further, but that might not serve the best interest of the piece for the purposes of a battle if that is what you're going for. I also would like to comment on what I didn't hear... cymbals aiding and abetting in sectional transition.
I think adding cymbals is a very easy and effective way of clarifying certain passages of music and for buildup and what not.

Cymbals have been called the 'poor man's transition' but it certainly doesn't cheapen the demeanor of a given piece.

I know it seems like West might be busting your balls about your samples and your mixdown procedure but he hears something in the music that deserves to be represented better and I would agree with him should that be the case.

[IoN]

If you haven't noticed, it's christmas.

What's Christmas?

I yearn for more intricate instrumentation, mainly with a woodwind combo (such as 2 flutes and 2 oboes) to really carry that renaissance feeling a bit further, but that might not serve the best interest of the piece for the purposes of a battle if that is what you're going for. I also would like to comment on what I didn't hear... cymbals aiding and abetting in sectional transition.

Hm, the idea of more woodwinds might not be a bad one - I'm not going for a battle theme; more of a general gameplay one that's mage-oriented.

Cymbals would probably help a lot in the transitions, but I'm not very effective at using any sort of percussion, unfortunately. I'll see if I can get it to sound right.

I know it seems like West might be busting your balls about your samples and your mixdown procedure but he hears something in the music that deserves to be represented better and I would agree with him should that be the case.

It's okay; I can take it. I admit I don't know much about making the most of samples I have, so any pointers you could give me would be appreciated.

[IoN]

Experimental version using SSO. Yes, I know the percussion is messed up; I'll fix that.

[Rocket Slug]

Experimental version using SSO. Yes, I know the percussion is messed up; I'll fix that.

Wow, that's actually very good! I like how you incorporated other themes (I recognized "Still a Wanderer," anyway). Here are some of my thoughts:

-In the first 23 seconds or so, the strings could use some more legato. Pay attention to phrasing, since they sound a little chopped and jumpy at the moment, especially at the 0:16 mark. Figure out how you want to shape the sound and adjust accordingly.

-During that little bit where the horns come in around 1:12, the bass becomes overpowering, and it sounds like they come in just a fraction too late during the chord changes. In fact, one part that bothers me about the beginning of you piece is that the flutes (I believe? They're the ones playing that nice melody @ 0:43, but they start @ 0:24) are usually completely drowned out. You have a really nice melody going, but all I hear are you chords.

-1:44, there seems to be this huge hodgepodge of sound and everything is lost. It all sounds muddy and unfocused. It's a shame, because I could just barely hear the harp come in for a few seconds. I think that that would've been the perfect lead-in to the "Still a Wanderer" theme, since the harp played such memorable part in the original.

-During your rendition of the "Still a Wanderer" theme, the bass chords come in off beat, and it generally gives the entirely thing a slow, trudging feel, bogging down the entire composition.

-3:58, 4:06 and 4:17 What's with this long drawn out chords? This isn't an organ we're talking about here, but actual stringed instruments! Give them some variation or a touch of vibrato, something to make those long passages not sound so grating and mechanical.

-5:53 You're bringing everything together again for a grand finale, though once again I'd like to say that it's a little much. Everything from 4:42 to that point did an excellent job of providing a "full" sound. You don't have to have everything and the kitchen sink play at the same time to build drama.

I'd like to point out that despite all that criticism, I'm very impressed by your piece. Your melodies are already very beautiful. Humanize the playing and think about how your piece is supposed to flow. You don't need musical grandstanding to make this a great composition; let the melodies speak for themselves through sheer musicianship.

You can take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm no composer, but being a classically trained pianist of 13 years, I hope that some of my passion for music can provide some applicable advice.

[IoN]

Whoa, that's quite a lot to think about; thanks. I've implemented most of these suggestions in this new ogg.

I'm glad you like the piece, by the way.

[Rain]

Indeed your instruments sound a lot sharper. Good work with the new samples. The only crit I hear is that all the instruments sound as if they are playing in different rooms. They should all take up their own sense of space, yes. But what I am missing in this piece is the feeling that the instruments are all interacting in the same room. You can create a larger sense of scale and power by slightly creating delay and clarifying hall reverb. You can do this easily by applying a convolution reverb to the master switch.

I can tell you from personal experience that it's much easier to do this kind of work during post-composition and arranging. Make sure all your instruments sound good in their ranges and then add the master verb later on. Be careful though, it's VERY VERY easy to create mud during this process. That's why it's best to just add accents to certain eq filters in the range to cut out the bad MUD frequencies and bring out the good stuff that gives the mix a fuller sense of scale.

I'll also have to agree with Rocket Slug about the sections where the instrumentation seems to be getting too loud and warping, taking away from the nice easy free flowing melody you had previously established. The strength of this piece lies in the simplicity of the melody. If you are going to try some dynamic expression and volume changes, remember that subtlety is a beautiful thing!

Musically speaking... Very softly stayed piece (in most areas) which I imagine would work very well for setting a mood without becoming obtrusive during gameplay. Keep refining man because you are definitely making good progress with your sound work.