Different names for alignment?

[jmosher]

I am inclined to support a change to diurnal/nocturnal, although describing Orcs for instance, as 'Nocturnal' doesn't seem as dramatic as describing them as 'Chaotic'.

Also, does anyone have a better word for describing a creature that works equally well in day and night, instead of 'Neutral'?

David

Well so far the best I've seen isn't that great: "crepuscular," those who like twilight. It would sort of work for Neutral units, since they would have no preference for day or night, but then they should get a bonus at Dusk and Dawn. It also is a strange word that very few people would know, far fewer than would know "diurnal."

I suppose we could invent our own word, "omniurnal," along the lines of "omnivorous."

As for the drama of the designation, I would say the Orcs are clearly characterized from the first time you meet them as nasty, brutish and often short. That Konrad first meets them when he burns down his home makes a far bigger impression than any alignment designation.

[Invisible Philosopher]

I think in terms of strategy it might be odd if one side had units that favored night and day, it would make it harder for them to work together becuase one would be strong while the other weak and vice versa. Maybe it would add strategy, having your day units protect the weaker night units during the day for example, but I think it would just erode the advantage of having your army be stronger some turns and weaker others, if we mix units preferences then it's virtually the same as units having no preference at all.

I used Lawful mages and Chaotic thieves working together to beat The Siege of Elensefar. (put thieves forward at night, mages forward in the day)

in a good/evil sense, I'd imagine both trolls and orgres as evil. I don't imagine either trolls or ogres to really be chaotic or lawful, but rather their decisions are all based on what best benefits themeselves. In a nocturnal/diurnal system, I imagine Trolls as Nocturnal and Ogres Nuetral. I think the diurnal/nocturnal system best suits the gameplay effects we're trying to describe.

Ogres don't have enough intelligence to be evil, IMO (see The Eastern Invasion).

[autolycus]

I guess the problem is that the clearest words (e.g. Dark and Light for those who prefer darkness and light respectively) are often the most baggage-laden. That's what makes it difficult to use 'Night', 'Day' and 'Shadow' as alignments.

I sometimes think of the units as 'Children of Night', 'Children of the Day', and 'Children of Twilight (or Shadow)'. It's more romantic and more apt than 'Chaotic', 'Lawful' and 'Neutral'. The first two are OK, I guess, but 'Neutral' tends to be a bit too indirect, and might cause confusion... (Why are these neutral units fighting against me only?)

Nocturnal, diurnal - sounds more like a biology text.

[Jetrel]

Two thumbs up for nocturnal & diurnal.

[turin]

Two thumbs up for nocturnal & diurnal.

But two down from here. They cancel out.

BTW, i really don't see what is wrong with having the 'evil' and 'good' connotations caused by lawful and chaotic. They mostly fit, and they have character, unlike these scientific terms you're coming up with.

[Ayin]

Bah... Lawful does not mean Good, and Chaotic does not mean Evil, btw. And these are, IMO, still the best option we have (read: the niftier names,) although not the more realistic.

[Neoriceisgood]

See lawfull as the parents and working man, who stay to a strickt day scedual where they sleep at night, while chaotic represents the rebellious teenagers who sneak out at night to par-tay.

[Dacyn]

Just say that there is a law in Wesnoth: 'All must sleep during the night!'
It could be a law made by the "diurnal" humans who made it in order to claim that the orcs are lawless. Orcs don't make laws like that, which is why they're considered chaotic.

[jmosher]

This is not the biggest issue in the game, but reading all these possible backstories for why "lawful" means afraid of the dark reminds me why I suggested a different name in the first place: it's needlessly complicated. I can intuit why Elves like forests, or knights are hard to damage, but "chaotic" means anarchic or confusing to most people. To some smaller group, it has a D&D meaning. To no one outside the Wesnoth clique does it mean nocturnal.

How are people going to know that there's a Wesnothian curfew that makes night-owls into "chaotic" lawbreakers? Throw a manual at them? Make a point of it in the introductory scenes?

This is supposed to be a game you can get into without being tripped up by technicalities and jargon. The day-night cycle is crucial to Wesnoth's gameplay and should not be obscured by unhelpful terminology.

[Elvish_Pillager]

This is supposed to be a game you can get into without being tripped up by technicalities and jargon. The day-night cycle is crucial to Wesnoth's gameplay and should not be obscured by unhelpful terminology.

Nocturnal implies that the unit doesn't go out in the day at all, and is equally unhelpful. I had *no* trouble with Lawful and Chaotic while learning the game. Besides, Orcs aren't nocturnal!!!!

[turin]

Bah... Lawful does not mean Good, and Chaotic does not mean Evil, btw. And these are, IMO, still the best option we have (read: the niftier names,) although not the more realistic.

but they have those connotations.

Basically, it doesn't really matter if the names are logical... they sound good, they are easy to understand, and they much better than the alternatives.

[jmosher]

Nocturnal implies that the unit doesn't go out in the day at all, and is equally unhelpful. I had *no* trouble with Lawful and Chaotic while learning the game. Besides, Orcs aren't nocturnal!!!!

Er, no. Nocturnal means something prefers the night and would rather not be out in the day. I don't know where you would get the idea that a nocturnal person or animal would never be out in the day, especially when we are talking about combat. Is a soldier going to ignore the trolls that just burst into camp because he wants to get his beauty rest?

Orcs are nocturnal in Wesnoth. They like the dark and fight poorly in the day. That's basically what "nocturnal" means.

[turin]

Nocturnal implies that the unit doesn't go out in the day at all, and is equally unhelpful. I had *no* trouble with Lawful and Chaotic while learning the game. Besides, Orcs aren't nocturnal!!!!

Er, no. Nocturnal means something prefers the night and would rather not be out in the day. I don't know where you would get the idea that a nocturnal person or animal would never be out in the day, especially when we are talking about combat. Is a soldier going to ignore the trolls that just burst into camp because he wants to get his beauty rest?

Orcs are nocturnal in Wesnoth. They like the dark and fight poorly in the day. That's basically what "nocturnal" means.

Nocturnal means "Sleeps during the day, active at night", actually, and it is usually used to describe animals, not sentient beings.

[Elvish_Pillager]

animals, not sentient beings.

Ummmm.....

[Neoriceisgood]

Shhh E.P, don't reveal the secret plans of mother nature.