The Era of Myths 5.19.0

[JW]

Fixed.

Uh, JW, you don't have to have the Windsong listed as "Windsong Human" under the help screen. You can just put it in the Windsong's race description saying that they are humans...

Welll....that's precisely how I changed it. I really don't know how else you would.....

From a game of Empowered Myths a while back (Windsong vs. Devlings): The Windsong Emissary isn't recruitable in Empowered Myths while it should be. The Sky Crystal (lvl 1 Sky Shard) is also not recruitable while the general precedent is to allow the lvl 1s of recruitable lvl 0s to be recruited. You should check other factions as well for unrecruitable units that should be recruitable.

That was fixed too, but after my above post.

[Aethaeryn]

JW: check data/campaigns/Extended_Era/races/Sidhe.cfg

Code: Select all

	id=sidhe
	male_name = _ "race^Sidhe Elf"
	female_name = _ "race+female^Sidhe Elf"
	plural_name = _ "race^Sidhe"

So basically, Noyga made the male and female name "Sidhe Elf" so they show up as Sidhe Elves in game, but in the help file they appear as Sidhe.

I know you probably fixed this, but I might as well report it: the Warg have no race (appear blank in the help file) and the Vampires have 3. Also, the Gargoyle line would probably make sense as its own race instead of "Mechanical."

[Melon]

Hey, JW. I was wondering if you're accepting any new factions for EOM at this time. I'd be interested in doing a faction of my own after I'm done re-spriting the Therians.

Well, the era's pretty crowded right now, but we could probably work another faction in somehow. We just have to make sure that (even though there's no current campaigns using the EoM) they'd work in story wise - or maybe even not at all: the Devlings and Elementals don't really have a place right now in the story.

The faction I have in mind is a technology oriented race of Gremlins. Most of their race are inventors of various sorts, therefore the better chunk of their units will be using a technological weapon in at least some shape or form, whether it's a firearm, an experimental airship or a steam powered car.

Here's a very brief racial overview:
Typically standing some 3 feet tall the Gremlins are a nomadic race that are naturally drawn to places where they may cause the most chaos and mayhem. Best described as being a capricious lot, they tend to nest in preoccupied cities, where they are usually considered as pests at best. While not a warmongering race, the Gremlins have a fairly different sense of what is considered moral and absolutely no sense of order or justice. They tend to play cruel and often lethal pranks on anyone they can get their hands on, but hold no particular grudges against most other races. The only exception to this rule are the Devlings, whom the Gremlins seem to absolutely despise, despite the numerous similarities that the two of them share.

Overall the game play style of this faction is going to be very offensive, since most of their units will have very poor health and resistances but strong attacks. They are most effective in cities and will often posses strong ranged attacks but weak melee.

[Shadow]

Interesting sketches.

[TL]

Hooray for gremlins! They seem somewhat out of place in a low tech world, though. They just don't seem very gremlinesque if nobody else has any machines to mess with.

Once upon a time I did toy with the idea of a full-on steampunk(ish) era with gremlins among other things, but I gave up when I realized that while I can produce halfway decent art on by myself, I'm way too slow at it to have any hope of producing an entire era's worth of units all on my own. Would you possibly be interested in a collaborating for such a project?

[Aethaeryn]

You can make a fork of the EE Dwarves (though ask Noyga first), which have some steampunk units. Then have the gremlins and two other factions or so and you have a steampunk era. What's stopping an Era of Steam from starting?

[Espreon]

Hooray for gremlins! They seem somewhat out of place in a low tech world, though. They just don't seem very gremlinesque if nobody else has any machines to mess with.

Well, if the Gremlins still lived in the time of IFtU then they could mess with the Automatrons of the Chaos Empire or some of the Dwarves' Gyrocopters or their Steamwheels...

[Velensk]

I'm doing this on the fly I'll edit it later to include my thoughts, but here is a replay, and I think there are a few good points made in it that are worth hearing.

EDIT: I think that the Celestials or most particularly the crusader have been over-nerfed. Unless I missed something, the crusader is curently a slightly more fragile melle fighter with a 4-4 arcane attack and the ability to null poision in an era that has olny one posioner that I can think of. I also think that having a minor healer as a fighter was just another part of the support network that is a defining characteristic of the celestials. As a melle unit they arn't great in most circumstances because they are arcane based, and in the circumstances where they would be good against things weak to arcane they still arn't great (nonstrong crusaders don't get a bonus vs 10% weakness to arcane)

I'd recomend that one of two things happens. (or maybe both)
1 they get heal back (gives them purpose beyound fighting ability)
2 they get faster/slightly harder hitting (gives them more fighting abiltiy)

Vampires still need some boost, not that gargoyals arn't a great addition that gives some much needed flexability/resistances, but I think that there is still something wrong, and that it's a problem with the units they have and not something that need replacing. I cannont pinn down what it is, however I'd like to try to attribute it to some things I've noticed.

Vampires play much like northerners with a variantion on the loyal trait, and a diffrent offensive game.
-Fledgelings are much like grunts, except slower, more expensive, less hp, One trait, vunerabilities to common damage types. In exchange for this they deal more damage (5-4 to 9-2) and have a draining attack.
-Instead of fire archers and assassins the vampires have blood apprentices and blood hulks, both of which I would consiter to be better, but the problem is that they are both much more expensive, and slower.

Some suggestions
-Give fangs some other weapon special in addition to drain, like maybe plauge.
-Tone downs some of the negitive resistances so that they have olny a 10% weakness to fire
-Make gargoyal neutral (not sure if this is a boost, but if thin bloods, and blood borns are neutral then gargoyals should probably)
? Add poison somewhere ? posion always seemed to me like a very vampire thing, vampires were the upper class monsters that everyone feared, and posion is a very upper class thing.

[JW]

Okay, after much delay, EoMg8 is out.

I hope I updated everything that has been mentioned in this and the art thread, but I probably missed some stuff, so please let me know as soon as you see it.

I included the sneak 1/2 animations.
I updated Therian Cat names.
I fixed multiple race problems/names.
I changed the Vampire fang attacks as discussed in the Vamp thread (I think it was there).
I added the new Melon and megane images.
I altered the Elementals slightly.
I increased Windsong Crystal defenses.

Hopefully I covered everything so far. I will try to stay on top of it more.


-edit-
Just remembered to add gargoyle standing anims. Reuploaded with the minor change.

[Melon]

I think you missed some bugs.
Off the top of my head:
-Vampire bats STILL have a missing image, I posted the cfg that fixes that at least 3 or 4 times by now, so what's up with that?
-Falcon Therians have no sprite.
-The entire Therian apprentice line uses the old sprites.
-Cat Therians use the old sprites.
-Mistress isn't in the game (I'm not sure if you intentionally scrapped the unit or forgot to add it.)
-Menthusalem on the other hand, still is (Even though there's even less of a point in having him there now that leadership is gone.)

If you recall, a while back I composed a .zip archive that fixed all of the various issues that the vampire faction had. Here it is again using the stats from the latest update rather then my own (Though I honestly think that the drain damage you used is way too high. The stats I had in the older archive where tested repeatedly to make sure that the faction stays balanced despite the changes.)

[Aethaeryn]

Still some issues I found as soon as I installed:

Empowered Myths
Empowered Myths has the Arbiter, not the Ascendant, as the default Windsong leader. This is now inconsistent with the main EoM. I still have issue with the extremely low lvl 1 and 2 prices for Devling units (the Devling Soldier only costs 21g while the Overgrown costs 15 - why would you get an Overgrown?). In Empowered Myths it suddenly becomes a good strategy to swarm higher-level units if you're Devlings.

Help Files
The Warg appear as race^Warg on the help file. Gargoyles are still Mechanical while it would make more thematic sense for them to be given their own race rather than be classified with ships and watch towers (machines which are manned by people). These units have the race "Miscellaneous" instead of their proper race: Therian Apprentice, Therian Mage, Therian Master, Therian Priest, Therian Shaman, Vine Tiger.

Other
The Vampire Bat has no sprites (and has the old style 60% everywhere, even on villages). Either give the Vampires the mainline Vampire Bat or give the Gargoyle one more MP and make it the scout.

[Espreon]

I forgot to change the Vine Tiger's race to "elemental" I fixed it up.

[JW]

I think you missed some bugs.
Off the top of my head:
-Vampire bats STILL have a missing image, I posted the cfg that fixes that at least 3 or 4 times by now, so what's up with that?
-Falcon Therians have no sprite.
-The entire Therian apprentice line uses the old sprites.
-Cat Therians use the old sprites.
-Mistress isn't in the game (I'm not sure if you intentionally scrapped the unit or forgot to add it.)
-Menthusalem on the other hand, still is (Even though there's even less of a point in having him there now that leadership is gone.)

If you recall, a while back I composed a .zip archive that fixed all of the various issues that the vampire faction had. Here it is again using the stats from the latest update rather then my own (Though I honestly think that the drain damage you used is way too high. The stats I had in the older archive where tested repeatedly to make sure that the faction stays balanced despite the changes.)

The problem with the files you uploaded for the bats is that they did not get the Vampire trait as they should. I thought I copied/pasted the lines to correct the problem but I suppose I made a mistake.

The Metusalem has no reason to be removed other than to remove for the sake of changing the faction. I don't see this as a compelling reason. Also, I thought that the drain damage you posted was actually higher than what I included. I could be wrong on that again though.

There were so many changes from the last version in such a short amount of time, surely you can understand if I missed a thing or two. This is why I appreciate your help in finding these things. Think of this release as another step forward, with more steps to come.

These bugs might be fixed as early as tonight.

Same goes to Aeths post.

[Melon]

So what's your stance on my faction proposition? Also the Therian changes I suggested a page back.

[Nebiros]

I'm doing this on the fly I'll edit it later to include my thoughts, but here is a replay, and I think there are a few good points made in it that are worth hearing.

EDIT: I think that the Celestials or most particularly the crusader have been over-nerfed. Unless I missed something, the crusader is curently a slightly more fragile melle fighter with a 4-4 arcane attack and the ability to null poision in an era that has olny one posioner that I can think of. I also think that having a minor healer as a fighter was just another part of the support network that is a defining characteristic of the celestials. As a melle unit they arn't great in most circumstances because they are arcane based, and in the circumstances where they would be good against things weak to arcane they still arn't great (nonstrong crusaders don't get a bonus vs 10% weakness to arcane)

Only a few units are *highly* weak to arcane, and the factions that have uniform weakness to arcane need to have that fixed anyway.

Compare the current crusader to the elvish fighter under the assumption that the enemy has equal blade and arcane resists. (In reality some units have more of one, some have more of the other.) It's more expensive, with a worse movetype, less melee damage, no ranged and gets basically nothing in exchange (now that the heal was removed).

I'd recomend that one of two things happens. (or maybe both)
1 they get heal back (gives them purpose beyound fighting ability)
2 they get faster/slightly harder hitting (gives them more fighting abiltiy)

I'd do the first one first; it gives them back their designed role (supporting the legionnaire). Raising their damage might make them too dangerous against the occasional arcane-weak unit (although that'd be about the only unit they were dangerous against).

Vampires still need some boost, not that gargoyals arn't a great addition that gives some much needed flexability/resistances, but I think that there is still something wrong, and that it's a problem with the units they have and not something that need replacing. I cannont pinn down what it is, however I'd like to try to attribute it to some things I've noticed.

I think they are frequently misplayed - in particular, mistaking the bloodborn for a line combatant. I've seen several bloodborns rush into unequal and pointless fights. The hulk is important, IMO, for both blocking positions and taking off some initial damage before your more fragile units come in.

But that doesn't mean the faction might not also need work.

Vampires play much like northerners with a variantion on the loyal trait, and a diffrent offensive game.

This isn't a bad analogy - they also lack poison, but do have a mage equivalent. But much of the vampire play I have seen was the equivalent of having no trolls and then sending goblins in to attack spearmen. Of course that doesn't work, but it doesn't make the faction bad.

Obedient is bad, though - especially on a one-trait unit, which then doesn't get any positive traits. Less upkeep takes a while to pay off. Weaker units pay off right now. Picture a strong resilient spearman vs. an obedient fledgling.

-Fledgelings are much like grunts, except slower, more expensive, less hp, One trait, vunerabilities to common damage types. In exchange for this they deal more damage (5-4 to 9-2) and have a draining attack.

When you put it like that - yeah. They could really use a cost decrease, if they're supposed to be a staple unit of the faction like an elvish fighter, spearman or grunt.

The draining attack isn't really that big an advantage, because of its lower base damage; you reduce your own damage (to the enemy) by almost as much as you drain back for yourself, on average, and that's on units that can be drained from at all. Furthermore, if you're draining, you're not running away to heal, which can get you killed.

Some suggestions
-Give fangs some other weapon special in addition to drain, like maybe plauge.

May be impossible with current code. There is a L2 with plague, but he loses drain to get it. In any case, I think the vamps have plenty of abilities, but come up short in raw stats, so that's where I'd focus the help.

If you do want to add more abilities, though... is it possible to have night-only regen, the way the elementals have terrain-only regen? 3-4 points or so of "nighthome" on the fledgling and thin blood lines would be unique and interesting and help them a lot, I think.

-Tone downs some of the negitive resistances so that they have olny a 10% weakness to fire

I think the gargoyle may make up for some of the resist issues.

-Make gargoyal neutral (not sure if this is a boost, but if thin bloods, and blood borns are neutral then gargoyals should probably)

It's not a boost to the unit exactly, but it might help the faction overall.

? Add poison somewhere ? posion always seemed to me like a very vampire thing, vampires were the upper class monsters that everyone feared, and posion is a very upper class thing.

Hmm. I wouldn't want to make them *too* much like the northerners. They already have widespread drain as another factional "signature".

But it would do them a lot of good - maybe the thin blood line should get poisoned arrows as an option in addition to his normal arrows? 4-2 seems about right (keeping in mind that poison will add to the damage). It would make him a bit more than "just another archer, nothing to see here, move along". Less reliable poison than an assassin, but then, he's also cheaper and has a real damage attack to use when it's time to finish the target off.

Vampire immunities, in either their current or desired state, are not the equal of a trait. This means that vampire units should either actually have two traits (preferably beneficial ones, not obedient), or be slightly cheaper than 2-trait units of comparable base stats. Instead they seem to be more expensive/weaker.