BfWMultiplayerDevelopment-Translation Software Integration

ClimbingEast · Post by **ClimbingEast** » February 12th, 2008, 11:20 pm

Hello.
I am only fluent in the english language. I realize that many players are not fluent all in the same language. This can create problems when even the simplest concepts need to be communicated between teammates, and communication is very important in strategy games.

When I do not understand a language, I turn to the Babelfish at AltaVista (http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr).

I propose that the playerbase and dev community looks into a way to integrate similar functionality into the BfW interface, or to modify the current 'chat' system such that it is easy to dump text from BfW to a file which can be easily translated by such tools, if they deem it worthwhile.

Alternatively, a 'chat macro' system might be implemented, whereby certain simple phrases are available to the player, which will be displayed in localized language of all the recieving players. This would probably be simpler to implement than full-on translation.

~ClimbingEast

enclave · Post by **enclave** » February 12th, 2008, 11:49 pm

agree that something could be done..

my personal opinion is positive

even using translator i can not copy-paste what my ally says to me in eg. portuguese, therefore i cant input it into translator.. of coz nobody would add another language every played game.. to use special symbols.. if without copy paste..

ctrl+C better start working.. at least from the chat log.. or something..

cool evil · Post by **cool evil** » February 13th, 2008, 12:14 am

Babelfish seriously sucks, if you translate anything back and forth again you know in almost all cases they will have very different meanings. You can't try it since you only know english well but many of us who knows another language have tried it and it is proven that Babelfish, like most translation services, don't work well, they might do good on single words and maybe short and easy sentences, but anything beyond that is almost impossible.

I have no problem with different user database, it adds diversity in my opinion.

ClimbingEast · Post by **ClimbingEast** » February 13th, 2008, 2:51 am

I have no problem with different user database, it adds diversity in my opinion. ~Coolevil

I think it is perfectly clear from my original post that the spirit of the idea is to unify, and not divide the user base. Communication tools would aide in this, and abate player-player conflict which tends to arise from lack of means of expression. Even seriously flawed tools, or incredibly basic tools, would be better than nothing.

Being able to place team-only visible icons which represent a unit and a corresponding turn number on map tiles, for instance, is a moderately simple extension of a feature already in game. Something like this too could help.

Regardless, I'm recommending thought be put into the matter for when the multiplayer aspect of BfW is the subject of major development.

Weeksy · Post by **Weeksy** » February 13th, 2008, 3:25 am

I think that misconceptions, especially when netspeak, abbreviations, and typoes are going to come up, will be amplified by translations. Seeing as it's not currently viewed as much of a problem, I don't think something like this will get added into the game. Still, an option to copy stuff out of the chatlog might be nice.

As an example of how poor these translators are, here is the above text into chinese and back again. You would have no clue what I was talking about, would you?

I believed, misunderstanding, specially when netspeak, the abbreviation, comes out with typoes, by translation enlargement. Sees currently not to watch according to the original design the same question, I did not think something will like like this obtains increases into the competition. Perhaps but, the choice duplication material stemming from chatlog is good.

Post by **turin** » February 13th, 2008, 3:29 am

As I've read someone say before on these forums, if this was implemented in any half-way decent way, Wesnoth would become a state-of-theart-, cutting-edge real-time chat translator with the bonus of a fairly decent game playing in the background...

Post by **thespaceinvader** » February 13th, 2008, 9:14 am

I would support something like this ONLY if it used effective translation software, and TTBOMK, there is no such software available free and GPL'd (and of course, it would have to be GPL'd for Wesnoth to use it...) to the general public.

Currently available automatic translation programs mangle languages horribly even when they're written with perfect spelling and grammar, and no abbreviations, proper nouns, or other similar problems. The sort of language commonly used in chat programs would become utterly incomprehensible.

To demonstrate this. the above post was translated to and from german by babelfish:

I will somewhat so ONLY if it effective translation software used, and TTBOMK to support, there none such software existing free and GPL'd (and naturally, it would have to be GPL'd, so that Wesnoth uses it...), for the public are. At present available automatic translation programs lack languages terriblly, if they are even written with perfect orthography and grammar, and no abbreviations, names or other similar problems. The kind of the language generally used in the Schwaetzchenprogrammen would become extremely incomprehensible.

It doesn't become totally incomprehensible, but getting the sense of it would be difficult without the original there, and it's written far more clearly than many chatters write in my experience.

I would, however, support the ability to c+p the chat window and translate it using an outside engine.

And i know weeksy already did this, but... meh.

Post by **irrevenant** » February 13th, 2008, 10:40 am

thespaceinvader wrote:I would support something like this ONLY if it used effective translation software, and TTBOMK, there is no such software available free and GPL'd (and of course, it would have to be GPL'd for Wesnoth to use it...) to the general public.

Is it possible to route through babelfish?

AFAIK, being under the GPL doesn't prevent Wesnoth from calling a 3rd party free web-based translation program.

I don't think this is a terrible idea, but given the low quality of babelfish translations I think there should be a visible indication when they're being used.

February 13th, 2008, 11:10 am

I honestly don't know, from either a legal or programming standpoint. But if something like this was included IN wesnoth's code, it would need to be GPL'd. Coding it to call on someone else's external code... no idea.

Aethaeryn (User Page) · Post by **Aethaeryn** » February 13th, 2008, 1:08 pm

Why focus on the bad half of the suggestion?

ClimbingEast wrote:Alternatively, a 'chat macro' system might be implemented, whereby certain simple phrases are available to the player, which will be displayed in localized language of all the recieving players. This would probably be simpler to implement than full-on translation.

I like this. Simply have something like "q" or "c" or something activate a menu that has a list of predetermined phrases that is translatable. There's not too many things you need to say in Wesnoth strategy-wise. And it would be a lot easier than routing chat lines through Babelfish.

Post by **thespaceinvader** » February 13th, 2008, 1:18 pm

I missed that bit

Yeah, can't see anything wrong with that =) A list of simple sentences which would be automatically displayed in the user's chosen language seems like an excellent idea.

Ranging from yes/no to more complex ideas such as 'take the village at x, y' etc.

Aethaeryn (User Page) · Post by **Aethaeryn** » February 13th, 2008, 1:24 pm

Yes, and perhaps it is always italicized or bolded so you can tell it's one of those phrases. Here's some ideas building on yours and splitting into three categories:

General
Hello.
Yes.
No.
Maybe.
How?

General Commands
Attack!
Retreat!
Hold the line!
I need some back up!
Should I attack?
Should I retreat?
Should I stay put?
Do you need back up?

Specific Strategy
Take the village at x,y.
Guard the unit at x,y.
Attack the unit at x,y.
Move the unit at x1,y1 to x2,y2.
Can I have the village at x,y?
Should I attack the unit at x,y?
Where should I move the unit at x,y?
See the label(s).

Post by AI » February 13th, 2008, 1:40 pm

Sounds like a good idea to me.

CarpeGuitarrem · Post by **CarpeGuitarrem** » February 13th, 2008, 3:44 pm

Yes, I like the idea of macros.

Post by **Viliam** » February 13th, 2008, 4:01 pm

It would be nice to support Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V copying text from game to another application and back. Then anyone can experiment with their favourite translation machine... in the other window.

Maybe the players should be able to specify a list of languages which they can communicate. (The current language of program would be in the list automatically, with possibility to add others.) When players are joining the game, program could display a list of languages that all players understand... and a big red warning if there is no such language. Maybe also per-team common languages could be displayed below.

List of phrases seems also like a good idea, though this can easily lead to neverending discussion on which phrases are useful and which are not. I do not know how technically would it be difficult, but it would be a cool functionality if the phrases could contain parameters like {position} or {unit_type}, and when you click on that parameter, you can specify a position by clicking on the map, or choose a unit type from list.

Or maybe it would be nice to put on the map icons -- just like labels, but they would be pictures with tooltips, selected from specified set. (Everyone would see tooltips in their language.) For example:
- please come here with some fighter
- please come here with some healer
- please attack this unit