New elven unit

exodia91 · Post by **exodia91** » February 6th, 2008, 4:32 am

To specifically address the OP:
exodia91 wrote:
I mainly play as the elves most of the time and I've felt a lack of a proper melee unit.... I dislike the fighters and their upgrades since they just seem to get creamed by almost everything as does the cavalry, they're only effective enmasse. So I was wondering if a new lv 2 branch could be added to the fighter. The Elvish stalker.

Is the underlined really a problem if true? What do you think of Northerners as a faction?

Also, your proposal also does nothing to solve the issue you raise: you're making a L2 unit for a problem you have with the L1.

yes the underlined is a problem... elves shouldn't have to attack enmasse against a unit unless its like a heavy lv3 unit thats tough to take down. and the reason why I proposed the stalker as a level 2 offshoot of the fighter is because whats the chances of them taking out the fighter or changing it as a unit? 0. so instead I proposed it as a level 2 so it would have some chance of making it. and besides while I dislike the fighter and heros as units they still have worth as units. this just gives the players some more choice in how they can develope their army

DDR · Post by **DDR** » February 6th, 2008, 5:09 am

Nice looking unit... he's a little out of proportion, for wesnoth - normally an odd sort of overhead view is used. But still, very nice.

exodia91 · Post by **exodia91** » February 6th, 2008, 5:50 am

out of proportion?.... I edited him from the fighter and kept the base angle, frame and skeleton the same XD so if its out of proportion so is the elven fighter.

DDR · Post by **DDR** » February 6th, 2008, 5:54 am

I just looked further into it... I take it back. Looks nice, proportion-wise.

TruePurple · Post by **TruePurple** » February 6th, 2008, 8:38 am

Elven fighters do comparable damage to other melee units, just have a bit less HP. And they have range to respond to range, shoot a unranged orc etc. A melee only elven fighter? No need. Range is the elven theme. If you want pure fighters, go orc. Elven fighter is sufficient, and their archers are totally superior to the human loyalist ones. Can even branch out for more melee like loyalist with concealment or pure marksmaned kick ass range.

As far as the pic, I suppose it looks fine, but for some reason it looks like it belongs in a megamanX game. I can't explain why.

Post by AI » February 6th, 2008, 1:29 pm

maybe it's the green hair? I bleached it.

TruePurple · Post by **TruePurple** » February 6th, 2008, 1:33 pm

Oh that was hair? I thought it was a cap or something. Hair seems a little off, maybe a little too yellow? Something else too? I don't know.

Post by AI » February 6th, 2008, 1:37 pm

it looked like hair to me, but that might just be this computer.
I'm currently using a computer with a horrible CRT, I have to use image zoom @ 400% to see individual pixels reasonably sharply.

As to what I did, I desaturated the hair/cap and then colorized it, but due to my monitor, I'm not too sure what the right colour is...

exodia91 · Post by **exodia91** » February 6th, 2008, 4:06 pm

it was supposed to be a cowl type thing, to help them camoflouge (I KNOW I spelled that wrong.... or did I?) and if you really want him to have a ranged you could give him like a very weak like 2-2 knife throw. I still hope for him to make it into the mainstream faction but is the idea at least good enough to put him in a custom campaign? I was also considering reworking the factions a bit and making a custom era I could put him in. and also if elves are all about range then what are the woses? chopped wood? XD

Post by **megane** » February 6th, 2008, 5:47 pm

Woses are allies of the elves. Elves != Rebels.

I personally feel that the Elvish fighter is one of the better fighters out there, primarily because it gets %60 def in a fairly common terrain, and can do a pretty significant amount of damage no matter what time it is. In a forest, it can hold for far longer than, say, an Orcish grunt, due to its high defence and the fact that it has a ranged attack, making it more dangerous for archers to shoot at it.

Also, you balance faction vs faction, not unit vs unit; the Rebels focus on ranged attacks, so it's perfectly fine for their fighter to be slightly under par compared to melee-heavy factions like the Orcs or Knalgans, neither of whom has a ranged unit who can even begin to compare to the awesomeness of the Elvish Archer.

Post by **irrevenant** » February 6th, 2008, 8:41 pm

JW wrote:Guys, the Elvish Scout has 9 moves. Think about that.

It's also less hampered by terrain than other rider units (except the gryphon) which gives it even greater range than the number indicates.

JW · Post by JW » February 6th, 2008, 9:51 pm

irrevenant wrote:
JW wrote:Guys, the Elvish Scout has 9 moves. Think about that.
It's also less hampered by terrain than other rider units (except the gryphon) which gives it even greater range than the number indicates.

Sorry to have to do this....

Scouts:
Elf: 9 moves; 1 through forest (18g)
Orc: 8 moves; 1 through hills (17g)
Dwarf: 8 moves; 1 through all common (24g)
UD: 8 moves; 1 through all common (13g)
UD: 7 moves; 1 through most common (20g)
Drake: 8 moves; 1 through all common (16g)
Loyalist: 8 moves; slowed by all common

The Gryphon is balanced through its high cost. The Ghost through its cost and low hp. The horses are the "slowest" scouts, slowed by all terrains other than grass (and the Horseman is 24g if you count him). The orcs have a comparable scout, though it has no ranged and 1 less move. The Drakes have arguably the best scout, but it has bad defenses.

The Elvish Scout has the most moves of any L1 unit, moves well through forest, has both ranges of attack, and has good defenses for a scout.

The unit is by no stretch of the imagination underpowered for its purpose.

Notice I did not address the Bat (though I did list its attributes), as I believe it is actually overpowered right now in terms of scouts.

exodia91 · Post by **exodia91** » February 7th, 2008, 4:24 am

... I'll say it again, I'm not critiquing the scout for its scouting, I only mentioned that its slaughtered in melee. this is not a discussion about the scouts.... so please try to stay on topic as much as possible, Thank you. Again I will also restate that while I dislike the fighters and woses as units I'm not saying thier bad... I just don't like them. but note I'm not trying to replace them, just add another level up choice to the fighter.

Post by **turin** » February 7th, 2008, 4:39 am

Unless you have a reason to add a new level-up to the fighter, why should one be added? Changes aren't made for no reason.

You seemed to be saying that the Rebels don't have good melee fighters and so they need a new unit, but apparently that's not the case. You say you just "don't like them". Surely you can see that's not a reason to add a new unit - I don't particularly like the Orcish Assassin, because I'm not that great at using poison, but that doesn't mean the orcs need a new unit. So what is your argument for adding a unit to the Fighter tree?

exodia91 · Post by **exodia91** » February 7th, 2008, 5:08 am

fine you want a flat out statement about why it should be added? then I will endevour to give you what you ask. It seems to me that the elves have a quick fast ranged unit (Avengers, sharpshooters) a quick fast medium blanced unit (Heros, Champions) so the stalker and perhaps a lv3 upgrade of him will provide a quick fast melee unit. it gives an, in my opinion, valuable diversity to the forces you can build and would be very helpful in many situations. Also I never stated "I just don't like the other units" as a reason for mine to be included, if you look closely I said that because ppl seemed to think I was totally bashing on all of those units qualities and several times this thread almost got off topic with it. I said that so they would know that is not the case and to return the discussion to the original matter.