Loyalists

[Darth Jordius]

Sounds like a lot of people are advocating primarily cavalrymen. Kinda funny, cause when I play Loyalists in MP they always seem to do the worst.

Or maybe it's because they're so good that they die first, because they are targeted.

[Trau]

I guess they tend to die first because all the elves generally try to gun for the cavalry, a too tempting target for their insane GatlingRPGbows.

[JW]

Sounds like a lot of people are advocating primarily cavalrymen. Kinda funny, cause when I play Loyalists in MP they always seem to do the worst.

Or maybe it's because they're so good that they die first, because they are targeted.

People don't know how to use Cavalry right then. At first, use them as a scout. When battle engages use them as a finisher/defender in areas of no pierce (which they can get to with 8 moves). They can even be used as a general melee unit against orcs, who if they recruit too many archers/gobs will get trounced by spearmen.

[Sir_Furious]

I think i do use the CM correctly, i use it as a scout first then after i have all the Villages i send a horde of them twords the enamy to hold them off as i recrut a strong army, and once all the cavalrymen are dead i should have enough gold too get a few mage gangs and slaughter the enamys main force.

of corse i leave a few CM to take mor vils

[Federalist marshal]

17 gold is a bit too much for cavalry to be considered expendable, so I think the best way to judge how well you've used them in combat depends on the ratio of number of CM recruited to the number of dragoons (or surviving CM with at least 2 XP if there are no dragoons).

[TruePurple]

To echo what F8 Binds said.

Calvary with there cold resistance are useful for taking out dark adepts. Of course its best if they dont survive to retaliate with cold range. But if theres a number of them sometimes they do. Likewise other undead have less resistance to sword then to pierce so calvary are a better rider then horseman against undead.(paladins take too long to get and too hard to get even past horseman with that pierce resistance)

And dark adepts aren't the only undead to use cold. And not many undead units have pierce (I can only think of the archer at the moment) And they're sword resistance is useful against those undead warriors.

How many calvary I'll build to counter undead depends on what the enemy is making. But I usually don't make too many of them regardless.(unless dark adept spam)

[assassin]

I agree with federalist marshal I mean another thing how big is this map we are talking about? and are you playing against humans or the comp I mean that can change everything because if you was playing human with that expendably calvary strat either the human was really dumb or you were playing a comp! but dude If that is how you use your troops I hope I am never in your army! that strat kinda makes me think you would like orcs!

[Sir_Furious]

cavalry costs 17 gold
so start with a few, you should end up with enough to support at least 1 and a half Cavlerymen per turn.

they arnt really that expendable but when you cant use them right just use them as a wall to hold of the enamey for a couple turns.

[JW]

cavalry costs 17 gold
so start with a few, you should end up with enough to support at least 1 and a half Cavlerymen per turn.

they arnt really that expendable but when you cant use them right just use them as a wall to hold of the enamey for a couple turns.

This really depends on map, and you should never recruit JUST cavalrymen unless your opponent is recuiting something that they are the exact counter for. I simply like to recruit 1 or 2 in the opening recruit because they are so flexible as they move 8/9 and are only weak to pierce. This gives them a myriad of situations that they are good in as opposed to other, slower units, or units with worse resisstancies.

The only drawback of the cavalryman is its defenses, so try to use him where the enemy must also have bad defense to attack you.

[Federalist marshal]

Of 36 strategems fleeing is best. And fleeing is one of the things cavalry do best. Unless cornered, of course.

[Trau]

I like to use Cavalrymen as a fairly tough and mobile brick wall that I can put in front of people to block them from slicing up my weak or wounded units.

In most cases, smacking people around is your Spearman's job.

[schedal]

Since this is a loyalist cavalry thread...


I have a question about loyalist vs. rebels.

When ever I try this match, the elves seem to dominate the early game because the loyalist horsemen/cav are vulnerable to pierce and nearly all the elves just over-flow with piercing bow strings. This makes it hard for the loyalists to claim and then hold villages near the half-way point until more resistant [slower] units can march up the rear to take over. And any early advantage is always a boon.

This strategy problem [above] doesn't occur on smaller maps cause there is less distance to cover, but on larger maps, I'm currently at a bit of a loss on how to play the loyalists effectively against the elves...

The units as I play it vs. the rebels, maybe someone can help?

Cavalry to claim early villages//fast to finish off units or move to other fronts/areas as needed.

A few Horesemen as essential units to support any attack by finishing of damaged elves, and to pick off any elves moving in the open when they are attacking / redeploying [outside of the woods]. In pairs you can usually always field one while one of them is healing in a village.

A good amount of archers to place in positions I want to defend since they can deal counter-damage to elvish ranged attacks. I use archers as my main force when against elves instead of spear men because they are better able to return damage when attacked.

Less spear men than archers, their goal is to threaten the elvish cavalry and to defend against elvish soldiers if they use them to attack more than the elvish-archers. Also good units for attacking elvish units (esp. archers) outside of forests.

Only a few mages in areas where mountain battles will occur or to counter any wooses that dare to show their bark. If a major offensive occurs these units can help but they die fast as they get arrows in their faces back when firing fireballs... so they become very expensive units that die fast if used in this way... I find that the mages work well if supported by archers/HI on the flanks/sides to prevent/minimize counter attacks.

HI I find are great if you can field them correctly and I build more of these than spear men but less of these than archers. They need good flanking support to ensure they are not surrounded, cause they are slow, but their sheer absorption of hp/pierce resistance gives them a good edge - although they don't deal any counter damage in the process of 'dieing from a thousand stings' so preferably the elves are attacking my archers. the HI are especially potent if you can engage elves outside of woods because the HI can fair it better in the open than an elf.

Fencers I don't find very useful against elves, except maybe to harass an enemy somewhere, elves move too fast to bypass their fronts, and they just die from arrows they can't counter.

In general I find it impossible to really dislodge elves from woods w. loyalists... with other factions vs. elves I find this task less daunting, not sure if anyone has nay tips on that?

And yeah, to recap: the early game on large maps vs. elves is tough for the loyalists... not sure how to really give them a better chance. ideas?


cheers!

[anakayub]

Since this is a loyalist cavalry thread...


I have a question about loyalist vs. rebels.

When ever I try this match, the elves seem to dominate the early game because the loyalist horsemen/cav are vulnerable to pierce and nearly all the elves just over-flow with piercing bow strings. This makes it hard for the loyalists to claim and then hold villages near the half-way point until more resistant [slower] units can march up the rear to take over. And any early advantage is always a boon.

This strategy problem [above] doesn't occur on smaller maps cause there is less distance to cover, but on larger maps, I'm currently at a bit of a loss on how to play the loyalists effectively against the elves...

The units as I play it vs. the rebels, maybe someone can help?

Cavalry to claim early villages//fast to finish off units or move to other fronts/areas as needed.

A few Horesemen as essential units to support any attack by finishing of damaged elves, and to pick off any elves moving in the open when they are attacking / redeploying [outside of the woods]. In pairs you can usually always field one while one of them is healing in a village.

A good amount of archers to place in positions I want to defend since they can deal counter-damage to elvish ranged attacks. I use archers as my main force when against elves instead of spear men because they are better able to return damage when attacked.

Less spear men than archers, their goal is to threaten the elvish cavalry and to defend against elvish soldiers if they use them to attack more than the elvish-archers. Also good units for attacking elvish units (esp. archers) outside of forests.

Only a few mages in areas where mountain battles will occur or to counter any wooses that dare to show their bark. If a major offensive occurs these units can help but they die fast as they get arrows in their faces back when firing fireballs... so they become very expensive units that die fast if used in this way... I find that the mages work well if supported by archers/HI on the flanks/sides to prevent/minimize counter attacks.

HI I find are great if you can field them correctly and I build more of these than spear men but less of these than archers. They need good flanking support to ensure they are not surrounded, cause they are slow, but their sheer absorption of hp/pierce resistance gives them a good edge - although they don't deal any counter damage in the process of 'dieing from a thousand stings' so preferably the elves are attacking my archers. the HI are especially potent if you can engage elves outside of woods because the HI can fair it better in the open than an elf.

Fencers I don't find very useful against elves, except maybe to harass an enemy somewhere, elves move too fast to bypass their fronts, and they just die from arrows they can't counter.

In general I find it impossible to really dislodge elves from woods w. loyalists... with other factions vs. elves I find this task less daunting, not sure if anyone has nay tips on that?

And yeah, to recap: the early game on large maps vs. elves is tough for the loyalists... not sure how to really give them a better chance. ideas?


cheers!

Which particular map are you referring to?

When I play on Clash, I usually use infantry to get the center villages, while I use the cav's/horsemen to get to the lower/upper central villages. The infantry units are quick enough to get to those villages by turn 3. The lower/upper villages are also more difficult to get your units surrounded early.

In general, all elves are vulnerable at day from the attacks of a combination of spearman, horsemen and mages.

Use mages to kill woses and other critical units defending in forests.

A strong spearman will have a potential 27 damage minimum during day, and a less than 30% chance of not hitting at all (except shamans/archers, but they've lower hp). That's a lot of damage, especially if you can attack from 3 hexes. And does not take into account strong/leadership.

Use horsemen to threaten units; against a unit in 60% def, as you have at least an 60% chance of hitting at least once.

Cavs are more difficult to use, but in this matchup it's mainly to defend against woses. It's easier to just use spearman/archers in good terrain in my honest opinion.

Once you know you're going against elves, getting a HI is definitely a good idea, as they allow you to hold ground better during the night, where their most preferable counters (mages and woses) are also weak. The only problem with them is their 2 strikes.

I'm not sure about the role of archers, considering that almost all rebels have a range attack, especially the cheaper elvish fighter (although it has a weaker range attack). I prefer the gold to be spent on another spearman/HI, as their day melee is much stronger than the fighter (27 to 16 for the daytime non-strong spear on a non-strong elf fighter). But I could be wrong here.

I don't find fencers that useful in this matchup, even though they have 4 strikes.

Correct my math if it's incorrect. An opinion from a more experienced player would hep me as well, and not just you, schedal. And this is a good topic as well; points here could be added for the Loy vs Reb in the How to Play Series.

[Mabuse]

In general I find it impossible to really dislodge elves from woods w. loyalists... with other factions vs. elves I find this task less daunting, not sure if anyone has nay tips on that?

mages (and spears). of course if you also buy hvyInf then you will have a problem with money. spears can do amazing damage during day

- for me its no good sign if a loyalist player train hvyINf versus elves.

[anakayub]

In general I find it impossible to really dislodge elves from woods w. loyalists... with other factions vs. elves I find this task less daunting, not sure if anyone has nay tips on that?

for me its no good sign if a loyalist player train hvyINf versus elves.

Care to elaborate why? I find HI most useful in vs Undead and Loy, and still useful vs Northeners, Knalgans and Rebels. They're only useless vs Drakes. Considering mages at night, they can hold their ground well in 40% terrain against fighters and archers, especially when in a village.